Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by ThrashATL

Southwest is only cheap, the service is so so. Half the time I've been on their planes it was like a flying frat party. They are not all cotton candy and fluffy bunnies.

Oh I know, but if they were to exist here just to offer another alternative would be great. I guess that's just wishful thinking.

[STrek777]

duplicate

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by Dragonheart8588

First of all, those legacy carriers haven't been "on their toes" that's is why they went through bankruptcy. These airlines operated through the good times and acted like they will never face competition and never have to face higher fuel cost (I will give them the benefit of the doubt for not predicting 9/11). They have a poor CFO with completely mediocre plans for their future and that's is why they were and continue to bleed money.

And NO, I haven't been in a coma. Unlike other Atl boosters, I refuse to support anything because they from "Atlanta." I support a company that provide GOOD products/services. If Delta was really on their toes then they would have able to plan for the higher cost and competition (And PLEASE do not tell me that they couldn't predict higher cost/competition) . It's call Finance 101.

Do you seriously know the first thing about the airline industry or are you just ranting because you can never seem to find a carrier that will let you sit in first class trans con on your $300 ticket?

Delta is the first major USA based corporation that ingeniously used the flexibility of the bankruptcy process to reinvent itself. When US Airways tried a hostile takeover our creditors sided with our business model over theirs even though US Airways was waiving some pretty big dollar bills in their face. In 19 months we went from operating only 20% internationally to almost 40% internationally making Delta the fastest growing international carrier in the world. Since the PBGC was created no other corporation before us thought to go to congress to try and rewrite the laws so that employee pensions could be saved. By the time we came out of bankruptcy we were operating at 95% of industry average cost and our CASM was down to just over $7.00. What were you saying about CFOs again because ours kicks *ss.

Thanks to our COO we are now the largest USA based carrier over the Atlantic to Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. We are the second largest carrier to Central and South America and if we aren’t already we are on the heels of being the largest carrier to the Caribbean. We are also now the only USA based carrier offering nonstop service from the South East USA to ICN and TYO and we are a shoe-in for the Shanghai, China rout. We have accomplished all of this while still being the only carrier in USA history to offer flights into all 50 states.

Do we have room to improve? Yes… show me a company that doesn’t. Do the papers love talking about our luggage issues? Yes… show me one airline that has never lost a bag. Also Delta is spending tens of millions of dollars in ATL and hundreds of millions in JFK to help fix the problem.

When AirTran, Jet Blue, and Southwest fly over 10 million passengers a month, on more than 800 aircraft, to nearly 500 cities, in over 60 countries better than we can then we can talk.

What was that about legacy carriers again? Let’s see US Airways that bills itself as a LCC is desperate for a merger, so is AirTran, and even Southwest has mentioned that it could be a possibility in their future as well. Jet Blue is deferring much of their aircraft orders and reassessing their own expansion and even has mention cutting back service.

DL, CO, NW, AA, and UA all are either expanding their rout structure, looking into major aircraft orders, or taking control of orders previously deferred. CO has quite a few 787s on the way, AA has some big 737s arriving, and DL will be the launch customer for Boeing’s 777-200LR starting next year.

Who was that you said should be on their toes again? It looks to me like its the LCCs that are scrambling to defend themselves against the resurgence of the legacies.

No more whining! If you want to b*tch and moan about the cruelty of the legacies then please write back with a fact or two.

OK

[akiatl261]

Very very good points. The key thing you said that will be overlooked is essentially, though Delta has accomplished tremedous things THERE IS STILL ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT and are being addressed. I think Delta has no where to go but up. They are in the postion to see what the other legacies and LCC's and International carriers are doing and find a way to meet and or exceed those offerings. Do I think Delta will be the next Singapore or Ethiad or even Jet Airways? No. I think Delta will find a happy medium which will be far above the other US Based carriers and very competitive with the worlds other major carriers.

[Trae]

Delta looks a lot better today than it did seven months ago. Every airline has room to improve.

[john3eblover]

and, as is constantly said by Delta over and over, they are a work in progress, and will continue to change over the next few years. these kinds of huge changes take a long time to implement when you have such a huge airline.

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by STrek777

Do you seriously know the first thing about the airline industry or are you just ranting because you can never seem to find a carrier that will let you sit in first class trans con on your $300 ticket?

Delta is the first major USA based corporation that ingeniously used the flexibility of the bankruptcy process to reinvent itself. When US Airways tried a hostile takeover our creditors sided with our business model over theirs even though US Airways was waiving some pretty big dollar bills in their face. In 19 months we went from operating only 20% internationally to almost 40% internationally making Delta the fastest growing international carrier in the world. Since the PBGC was created no other corporation before us thought to go to congress to try and rewrite the laws so that employee pensions could be saved. By the time we came out of bankruptcy we were operating at 95% of industry average cost and our CASM was down to just over $7.00. What were you saying about CFOs again because ours kicks *ss.

Thanks to our COO we are now the largest USA based carrier over the Atlantic to Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. We are the second largest carrier to Central and South America and if we aren’t already we are on the heels of being the largest carrier to the Caribbean. We are also now the only USA based carrier offering nonstop service from the South East USA to ICN and TYO and we are a shoe-in for the Shanghai, China rout. We have accomplished all of this while still being the only carrier in USA history to offer flights into all 50 states.

Do we have room to improve? Yes… show me a company that doesn’t. Do the papers love talking about our luggage issues? Yes… show me one airline that has never lost a bag. Also Delta is spending tens of millions of dollars in ATL and hundreds of millions in JFK to help fix the problem.

When AirTran, Jet Blue, and Southwest fly over 10 million passengers a month, on more than 800 aircraft, to nearly 500 cities, in over 60 countries better than we can then we can talk.

What was that about legacy carriers again? Let’s see US Airways that bills itself as a LCC is desperate for a merger, so is AirTran, and even Southwest has mentioned that it could be a possibility in their future as well. Jet Blue is deferring much of their aircraft orders and reassessing their own expansion and even has mention cutting back service.

DL, CO, NW, AA, and UA all are either expanding their rout structure, looking into major aircraft orders, or taking control of orders previously deferred. CO has quite a few 787s on the way, AA has some big 737s arriving, and DL will be the launch customer for Boeing’s 777-200LR starting next year.

Who was that you said should be on their toes again? It looks to me like its the LCCs that are scrambling to defend themselves against the resurgence of the legacies.

No more whining! If you want to b*tch and moan about the cruelty of the legacies then please write back with a fact or two.

OK

First, I am not ranting. I started this topic to tell my multiple bad experiences with Delta customer service. Is it necessary for you to twist my words to make your argument stronger? I paid almost 400 dollars on coach. I was happy on coach with the cramp sit. I didn't care for first class and that's why I didn't buy one. I was discussing about the customer service from their check-in desk to their flight attendants. Manners doesn't hurt to have in such business.

Second, I didn't say that Delta were a complete failure. I'm sure Delta was smart enough to hire enough consultants and lawyers to help them from the hostile takeover.

I am all for improvements but if you are going to use the arguments that Delta have done a tremendous job (which they did in the last few years) over the last few years; but how long have they been in this business?

Customer service is a big part of this industry and it is sad that they still couldn't figure that out sooner or even now.

In addition, I was responding to the last comment about these carriers bleeding money because they didn't have a good plan in dealing with higher fuel cost and competition.

If you feel that I am whining then you are welcome not to read my comment and response to it. You can save yourself a lot of trouble that way.

However, I do appreciate your in-depth info of Delta. Maybe Delta should hire you.

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by Dragonheart8588

First, I am not ranting. I started this topic to tell my multiple bad experiences with Delta customer service. Is it necessary for you to twist my words to make your argument stronger? I paid almost 400 dollars on coach. I was happy on coach with the cramp sit. I didn't care for first class and that's why I didn't buy one. I was discussing about the customer service from their check-in desk to their flight attendants. Manners doesn't hurt to have in such business.

Second, I didn't say that Delta were a complete failure. I'm sure Delta was smart enough to hire enough consultants and lawyers to help them from the hostile takeover.

I am all for improvements but if you are going to use the arguments that Delta have done a tremendous job (which they did in the last few years) over the last few years; but how long have they been in this business?

Customer service is a big part of this industry and it is sad that they still couldn't figure that out sooner or even now.

In addition, I was responding to the last comment about these carriers bleeding money because they didn't have a good plan in dealing with higher fuel cost and competition.

If you feel that I am whining then you are welcome not to read my comment and response to it. You can save yourself a lot of trouble that way.

However, I do appreciate your in-depth info of Delta. Maybe Delta should hire you.

Wow, you paid just under $400 for your ticket and you weren’t treated like the Sultan of Brunei… for shame.

First, you have got to be the only person that I have ever met or had a discussion with that didn't like first class.

Second, I didn't say you said Delta was a complete failure. I just wanted to go out of my way to show you how you were slandering some pretty big companies. Without giving a single fact to your support your statements you had some pretty harsh things to say.

Third, I just cannot take you serious anymore when you talk about the finances of the airlines. You do realize that at the turn of the millennium Delta was, and still is, the only carrier to have ever grossed over $1 billion in profit. Then they went and did it again twice more. The year 2000 was the last year Delta posted a profit until 2006-2007. If you actually took the time to do your research you would find similar stories for the other legacy carriers. Seriously, to only have 6 or 7 years of losses when the dot.com bubble burst and 9/11 happened in very short order is amazing to say the least.

Furthermore AA finalized the deal to acquire TWA only about a month before 9/11. Delta and United had just finished acquiring Pan Am when 9/11 happened. US Air had just finished another acquisition and re-named itself US Airways just before 9/11. Northwest was still figuring out how it would manage its newly acquired hub in TYO and CO was fresh out of a bankruptcy all around the time just before 9/11. Oh and lets not forget that at the time of the dot.com burst every carrier struggled with how they would evolve with no one around to afford the $3,000 first class ticket from JFK-LAX anymore. So in a few short years from 1999-2001 there was airline mayhem after the loss of Eastern, Pan Am, and TWA.

Does it help clear things up for you a little bit as to why so many of the big boys were hurting at a time when the, relatively unheard of, LCCs were coming to power. Are you able to see why the legacies might have been a little distracted when the likes of AirTran, Jet Blue, and Southwest started slowly expanding? If you are unable to realize what a pronominal feet it was for the legacies to fully integrate their acquisitions, finalize their route structures, refinance their debt, realign their fares, deal with the economic downturn after the dot.com burst, survive the 9/11 catastrophe, cope with mounting pension payments, regain their footing and start posting profits as early as 2006 then you need help.

But let’s go with your feelings on the matter. Since most legacies have been in the game for 70(+) years they should have foreseen all that was about to be thrown at them after 1999. Yes, of course you’re right any decent CEO would have seen all that coming a mile away and any CFO worth their paycheck would have been able to fix any problem in one fiscal year. Yup I see your point completely! It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing the fallout that lied ahead. Even though at the time all they saw for years were black ink balance books they just didn't think outside the box early enough.

Yes, you have a valid point in that at the core of any company’s survival you will find good customer service. Yes for a while most carriers lost sight of that ideal. By the time they were ready to focus on it again the customers perception had completely changed. Again there is that shallow foresight again. Naturally in the midst of dealing with strikes, pension payments, heightened retirements, layoffs, restructuring, pay cuts, and benefit cuts moral along with customer service should have never faltered. Yup I see your point completely! It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing that customer service would evolve into racing passengers through the airports as fast as possible. Gone are the days when everyone wanted to speak to an agent. Now good customer service is websites that handle everything from ticket purchases to, sky mile redemptions, seat assignments, and even checking in. Kiosks are now a way of life and paper tickets are a thing of the past. But your right, the evolution of great customer service should have been seen as plainly on the noses of their faces.

Now the agents that work the counters and gates day in and day out aren't stepford wives. The passengers that they work with on a daily basis aren't from Pleasantville. Please remember that over 70 million passengers a year fly out of ATL. Delta alone, system wide, carries over 10 million passengers a month. Should you get to the airport and the agent you are working with isn't whistling a zippidy do da tune try your very best to remember that the last person they dealt with might have just verbally b*tch smacked them. Customer service works both ways and you get further with honey than you do with vinegar.

So... do you still have something that you would like to add? If you feel I am twisting your words I do apologize. However, this will be the last of your post that I will be responding to unless you have something constructive to say. Oh and I asked you before and I will ask again. If you want to bash the legacies you will need to come at me with more than just a perception I will need to see some cold hard objective facts.

OK... Thanks!

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by STrek777

Wow, you paid just under $400 for your ticket and you weren’t treated like the Sultan of Brunei… for shame.

First, you have got to be the only person that I have ever met or had a discussion with that didn't like first class.

Second, I didn't say you said Delta was a complete failure. I just wanted to go out of my way to show you how you were slandering some pretty big companies. Without giving a single fact to your support your statements you had some pretty harsh things to say.

Third, I just cannot take you serious anymore when you talk about the finances of the airlines. You do realize that at the turn of the millennium Delta was, and still is, the only carrier to have ever grossed over $1 billion in profit. Then they went and did it again twice more. The year 2000 was the last year Delta posted a profit until 2006-2007. If you actually took the time to do your research you would find similar stories for the other legacy carriers. Seriously, to only have 6 or 7 years of losses when the dot.com bubble burst and 9/11 happened in very short order is amazing to say the least.

Furthermore AA finalized the deal to acquire TWA only about a month before 9/11. Delta and United had just finished acquiring Pan Am when 9/11 happened. US Air had just finished another acquisition and re-named itself US Airways just before 9/11. Northwest was still figuring out how it would manage its newly acquired hub in TYO and CO was fresh out of a bankruptcy all around the time just before 9/11. Oh and lets not forget that at the time of the dot.com burst every carrier struggled with how they would evolve with no one around to afford the $3,000 first class ticket from JFK-LAX anymore. So in a few short years from 1999-2001 there was airline mayhem after the loss of Eastern, Pan Am, and TWA.

Does it help clear things up for you a little bit as to why so many of the big boys were hurting at a time when the, relatively unheard of, LCCs were coming to power. Are you able to see why the legacies might have been a little distracted when the likes of AirTran, Jet Blue, and Southwest started slowly expanding? If you are unable to realize what a pronominal feet it was for the legacies to fully integrate their acquisitions, finalize their route structures, refinance their debt, realign their fares, deal with the economic downturn after the dot.com burst, survive the 9/11 catastrophe, cope with mounting pension payments, regain their footing and start posting profits as early as 2006 then you need help.

But let’s go with your feelings on the matter. Since most legacies have been in the game for 70(+) years they should have foreseen all that was about to be thrown at them after 1999. Yes, of course you’re right any decent CEO would have seen all that coming a mile away and any CFO worth their paycheck would have been able to fix any problem in one fiscal year. Yup I see your point completely! It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing the fallout that lied ahead. Even though at the time all they saw for years were black ink balance books they just didn't think outside the box early enough.

Yes, you have a valid point in that at the core of any company’s survival you will find good customer service. Yes for a while most carriers lost sight of that ideal. By the time they were ready to focus on it again the customers perception had completely changed. Again there is that shallow foresight again. Naturally in the midst of dealing with strikes, pension payments, heightened retirements, layoffs, restructuring, pay cuts, and benefit cuts moral along with customer service should have never faltered. Yup I see your point completely! It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing that customer service would evolve into racing passengers through the airports as fast as possible. Gone are the days when everyone wanted to speak to an agent. Now good customer service is websites that handle everything from ticket purchases to, sky mile redemptions, seat assignments, and even checking in. Kiosks are now a way of life and paper tickets are a thing of the past. But your right, the evolution of great customer service should have been seen as plainly on the noses of their faces.

Now the agents that work the counters and gates day in and day out aren't stepford wives. The passengers that they work with on a daily basis aren't from Pleasantville. Please remember that over 70 million passengers a year fly out of ATL. Delta alone, system wide, carries over 10 million passengers a month. Should you get to the airport and the agent you are working with isn't whistling a zippidy do da tune try your very best to remember that the last person they dealt with might have just verbally b*tch smacked them. Customer service works both ways and you get further with honey than you do with vinegar.

So... do you still have something that you would like to add? If you feel I am twisting your words I do apologize. However, this will be the last of your post that I will be responding to unless you have something constructive to say. Oh and I asked you before and I will ask again. If you want to bash the legacies you will need to come at me with more than just a perception I will need to see some cold hard objective facts.

OK... Thanks!

LOL!! I must have hit the right spot. Take a deep breath and get a drink or something.

Thanks for taking the time.

You should send that to the AJC.

Seriously, I didn't mean to piss off anybody but I guess that's little bit late.

[Trae]

Originally Posted by STrek777

Wow, you paid just under $400 for your ticket and you weren’t treated like the Sultan of Brunei… for shame.

First, you have got to be the only person that I have ever met or had a discussion with that didn't like first class.

Second, I didn't say you said Delta was a complete failure. I just wanted to go out of my way to show you how you were slandering some pretty big companies. Without giving a single fact to your support your statements you had some pretty harsh things to say.

Third, I just cannot take you serious anymore when you talk about the finances of the airlines. You do realize that at the turn of the millennium Delta was, and still is, the only carrier to have ever grossed over $1 billion in profit. Then they went and did it again twice more. The year 2000 was the last year Delta posted a profit until 2006-2007. If you actually took the time to do your research you would find similar stories for the other legacy carriers. Seriously, to only have 6 or 7 years of losses when the dot.com bubble burst and 9/11 happened in very short order is amazing to say the least.

Furthermore AA finalized the deal to acquire TWA only about a month before 9/11. Delta and United had just finished acquiring Pan Am when 9/11 happened. US Air had just finished another acquisition and re-named itself US Airways just before 9/11. Northwest was still figuring out how it would manage its newly acquired hub in TYO and CO was fresh out of a bankruptcy all around the time just before 9/11. Oh and lets not forget that at the time of the dot.com burst every carrier struggled with how they would evolve with no one around to afford the $3,000 first class ticket from JFK-LAX anymore. So in a few short years from 1999-2001 there was airline mayhem after the loss of Eastern, Pan Am, and TWA.

Does it help clear things up for you a little bit as to why so many of the big boys were hurting at a time when the, relatively unheard of, LCCs were coming to power. Are you able to see why the legacies might have been a little distracted when the likes of AirTran, Jet Blue, and Southwest started slowly expanding? If you are unable to realize what a pronominal feet it was for the legacies to fully integrate their acquisitions, finalize their route structures, refinance their debt, realign their fares, deal with the economic downturn after the dot.com burst, survive the 9/11 catastrophe, cope with mounting pension payments, regain their footing and start posting profits as early as 2006 then you need help.

But let’s go with your feelings on the matter. Since most legacies have been in the game for 70(+) years they should have foreseen all that was about to be thrown at them after 1999. Yes, of course you’re right any decent CEO would have seen all that coming a mile away and any CFO worth their paycheck would have been able to fix any problem in one fiscal year. Yup I see your point completely! It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing the fallout that lied ahead. Even though at the time all they saw for years were black ink balance books they just didn't think outside the box early enough.

Yes, you have a valid point in that at the core of any company’s survival you will find good customer service. Yes for a while most carriers lost sight of that ideal. By the time they were ready to focus on it again the customers perception had completely changed. Again there is that shallow foresight again. Naturally in the midst of dealing with strikes, pension payments, heightened retirements, layoffs, restructuring, pay cuts, and benefit cuts moral along with customer service should have never faltered. Yup I see your point completely! It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing that customer service would evolve into racing passengers through the airports as fast as possible. Gone are the days when everyone wanted to speak to an agent. Now good customer service is websites that handle everything from ticket purchases to, sky mile redemptions, seat assignments, and even checking in. Kiosks are now a way of life and paper tickets are a thing of the past. But your right, the evolution of great customer service should have been seen as plainly on the noses of their faces.

Now the agents that work the counters and gates day in and day out aren't stepford wives. The passengers that they work with on a daily basis aren't from Pleasantville. Please remember that over 70 million passengers a year fly out of ATL. Delta alone, system wide, carries over 10 million passengers a month. Should you get to the airport and the agent you are working with isn't whistling a zippidy do da tune try your very best to remember that the last person they dealt with might have just verbally b*tch smacked them. Customer service works both ways and you get further with honey than you do with vinegar.

So... do you still have something that you would like to add? If you feel I am twisting your words I do apologize. However, this will be the last of your post that I will be responding to unless you have something constructive to say. Oh and I asked you before and I will ask again. If you want to bash the legacies you will need to come at me with more than just a perception I will need to see some cold hard objective facts.

OK... Thanks!

Care to right a book .

[john3eblover]

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2007/07/14/delayside_0715.html

Runway addition at Hartsfield helps on-time statistics

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/15/07

Even though crowded skies are lengthening delays and shortening tempers on the ground, the situation is somewhat better in Atlanta.

The opening of an extra runway at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in May of last year helped improved on-time performance for some carriers. At AirTran, the airport's second-largest carrier, the portion of flights later than 45 minutes fell to 7 percent for the first five months of this year, vs. 13.4 percent in 2005.

"It has a big part, no question," Kevin Healy, AirTran's vice president for planning, said of the impact of the fifth runway on AirTran's reduced flight delays. "Two-thirds of our operation touches Atlanta every day."

The rate of serious delays — those lasting over 45 minutes — in Delta's mainline operation also improved in the same period, dropping from 8 percent in 2005, before the runway opened, to 5.6 percent through May, according to the federal Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

The percentage of serious delays is much higher and showing little improvement at Delta's regional partners, however. That has apparently offset much of the main carrier's gains.

According to the BTS, the rate of serious delays for the combined operations of Delta, Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Comair was 8.7 percent through May this year — slightly below the industrywide rate. The group's rate was 5.4 percent in 2002. Atlanta-based ASA and Delta subsidiary Comair, which both fly a large share of feeder flights into Delta's hubs as Delta Connection carriers, both had double-digit rates of serious delays.

The higher rate of delays on commuter carriers means a growing number of their passengers are particularly vulnerable to missing connecting flights.

Delta has increasingly relied on the regional carriers as it has cut its own domestic operations and shifted its big jets to overseas routes. Today, commuter jets handle 38 percent of Delta's passenger traffic, providing much of the passenger flow into the airline's hubs and transcontinental and international routes. That's up from roughly a fourth of Delta's total traffic in 2003.

Also, roughly 65 percent of passengers on Delta Connection planes are on connecting flights, compared with roughly 55 percent on mainline jets, estimated Neil Stronach, Delta's vice president of operations planning control and reliability.

With the extra runway in Atlanta, the airlines can recover more quickly from disruptions such as last week's summer storms, said Stronach.

Before the runway opened, "we would have had to take a much more significant cancellation" of flights, he said.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by STrek777

It was entirely the top executives fault from every airline for not foreseeing the fallout that lied ahead. Even though at the time all they saw for years were black ink balance books they just didn't think outside the box early enough.

actually some companies and leaders do think ahead.

and it wasn't like the leaders were serving as competent caretakers for a successful business model. they bilked every penny they could out these airlines and let them become fat.

as far as customer service, what does how other customers behave have to do with the way you are treated??? i'm sure the staff at the Ritz or Singapore Airlines gets grief but they don't treat you poorly.

i worked at DL for a while. it is FILLED with people who feel entitled to their jobs and their precious flight benefits.

i think the new management has done a better job but it's ridiculous to paint DL as a victim of circumstances. they were poorly managed and they paid for it.

DL used to be the envy of all airlines and they squandered it all.

i root for DL b/c i want a leading airline in ATL. but i don't feel sorry for them or feel they were unlucky. if anything, they are very, very lucky to be standing.

anyway, airlines have made exactly ZERO profit since the Wright brothers so the whole business is kind of a joke. it's basically a gov't service.

[Fiorenza]

My information is that Delta's customer service has improved substantially, but are still far from perfect. From what I hear, they have upgraded their international runs to the point they are being successful in pulling customers away from legacy carriers like Lufthansa.

[megalopolis]

Delta applying for rights to second China flight

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/16/07

Delta Air Lines is seeking a second nonstop route to China — Atlanta to Beijing — even before it has won flying rights for its first target, a daily flight between its main hub and Shanghai.

Most major passenger airlines were expected to apply by Monday's deadline for several new daily U.S.-China flights being awarded by the U.S. Department of Transportation over the next three years.

Delta said it planned to file the second application Monday for daily flights from Atlanta to China's capital starting in March 2009. Delta also announced plans months ago to apply for rights to launch the Atlanta-Shanghai service in March 2008.

Delta was expected to announce the second application at a ceremony at the Atlanta Zoo, where the zoo's three giant pandas from China were to be enlisted as supporters. Delta is one of the zoo's corporate sponsors.

"Come on, you can't look in the eyes of these pandas and say no," joked Delta Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst in an interview before the event, where Delta was to receive a petition supporting the carrier's case that supposedly is signed by the pandas' paw prints.

And, indeed, Delta has been reaching far and wide for political support in the China sweepstakes after being beaten twice before.

The carrier said it has enlisted support from a dozen governors in the Southeast and Puerto Rico, several members of congress and senators, and cities and business groups from the region.

The airline said Monday that 20,000 people have signed a petition on a Web site set up for its campaign, www.NextGatewayToChina.com.

"I am absolutely positive we have by far the best route case, but we are not taking anything for granted," Whitehurst said. The airline argues that the Southeast is the most populous section of the United States without direct flights to the fast-growing Chinese economy.

Delta, the largest network carrier that doesn't fly to China, is widely believed to be the likely winner for the first flight to become available later this winter or spring. The DOT has reserved those initial flying rights, known as the 2007 award, for a passenger carrier that doesn't currently fly to China.

US Airways, the only other major network carrier that doesn't have flights to China, also showed initial interest in this year's award but has since indicated that it will apply for service to start in 2009, according to press reports.

Meanwhile, Delta likely will face stiffer competition for its bid to add a second China route in 2009.

The DOT recently said it will award all the flights at one time to speed up the process and increase competition among the airlines that have much-coveted access to China.

Most major carriers have announced plans to apply for up to five daily flights starting in 2009 that the agency plans to award to a combination of incumbent airlines and newcomers.

According to press reports, American Airlines wants to begin a daily Chicago-Beijing flight, Continental wants flights between Newark and Shanghai, and Northwest and US Airways want to open China service from Detroit and Philadelphia, respectively, under the 2009 award.

Besides the 2007 and 2009 awards, the agency also plans to award two daily flights for service as early as next spring open only to carriers that already are flying there.

The flying rights were negotiated under a recent treaty between China and the United States.

-------------------------------

So if the DOT has already reserved the 2007 award for a passenger carrier that doesn't currently fly to China, and if Delta and US Airways are the only two major network carriers that don't currently fly to China and if US Airways wants to start service to China in 2009, then doesn't that mean Delta will be the de facto winner of the 2007 award?

[Harry Cane]

Pretty much. I think the issue is that for the 2007 award, DOT prefers a new entrant, but it’s not a requirement. I’d be surprised if Delta didn’t get it. The 2009 awards will be interesting, though.

[LouisianaCharm]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

The reason Jetblue and Southwest will never come to Atlanta is because Delta and Airtran are already so firmly entrenched here. They have the infrastructure and route system in place, as well as the gates to make it all work at ATL. It would be nearly impossible for Southwest or any other LCC to survive here. The competition would be so cutthroat. Southwest has traditionally stated very publicly that they will never enter the ATL market.

Competition is always a good thing I believe, and the competition at ATL is pretty intense, trust me.

thats only partially correct.....the main reason southwest wont fly to atlanta is because atl doesnt have a secondary airport. southwest doesnt like to compete directly with any airline, but they dont mind competing from the airport across town. if you look at the airports they fly into, most are secondary airports. delta has no bigger presence over atlanta than american has over dallas, and southwest is based out of love field and does quite well. remember southwest chose not to enter dfw because of the same reason delta left, direct comp. with the largest airline in the world.........so if southwest doesnt mind competing with the likes of american, continental, united, etc......what makes you think they wont compete with delta in a secondary airport.

[atlantaguy]

No it's not the only reason Southwest won't fly into Atlanta. They traditionally used to avoid large hubs big time, but not anymore. They are now at Philadelphia (huge USAirways hub) and Denver (huge United hub, main Frontier hub), and have been at LAX (huge United hub) for years - it's one of their busiest stations. They have basically thrown their own old formula out the window. Atlanta doesn't need Southwest, as AirTran basically IS our Southwest. They have a huge and loyal following here, and besides that, there isn't any spare gate or counter space at Hartsfield-Jackson.

As far as Delta's presence over Atlanta vs American at DFW - wrong again. Delta at ATL is much, much larger than AA at DFW. Delta operates the worlds largest single airline hub here, with a fantastic selection of growing international routes that DFW would kill for, trust me.

[john3eblover]

Atlantaguy is correct. And for the record, Atlanta will NEVER build another airport. It's not going to happen. At least not in our lifetimes. So there's no point arguing about whether or not Southwest will come to ATL

[jmcgoblue]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

Atlantaguy is correct. And for the record, Atlanta will NEVER build another airport. It's not going to happen. At least not in our lifetimes. So there's no point arguing about whether or not Southwest will come to ATL

So if passenger volume continues to grow beyond the airport's capacity, how do you think it will be accommodated?

[Trae]

Originally Posted by john3eblover

Atlantaguy is correct. And for the record, Atlanta will NEVER build another airport. It's not going to happen. At least not in our lifetimes. So there's no point arguing about whether or not Southwest will come to ATL

I doubt it. Macon is already making preparations to catch the overflow of passengers at Hartsfield. There are so far, in contact with two airlines to go to their airport. Click here for more.