Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[SLC Projects]

I like the Renderings, eve if it's hard to see. LOL. But there seems to be tons of new buildings anywhere from 3-6 stories.


Cool, thanks for the link Comrade.


I like the plans. To have a outdoor mix-use mall with housing and office space is the way to go these days. Just what I was hoping for.

Speaking of Valley Fair I wonder what ever happen to their plans? ( The owners were planning on doing the same kind of thing to their mall. ) So fair the only thing going on at that Valley Fair Mall is the new Costco that is getting built on the North end were the old school used to be. I think I remember hearing once the the Costco project was the first phase and that once Costco is finish then phase two will begin with the tearing down of the mall. But Costco is almost finish and so far none of the stores in the mall have moved out or closed. So who knows.

[delts145]

"Spectacular New Lifestyle Center To Take It's Cues From Siena, Park City, Pasadena, And Scotland."

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680196801,00.html

....Macey's will stay in its current location but with a new exterior and a specialty market.

....Architects looked to Utah's architectural history for inspiration, such as small apartments with "massive front porches," said Liz Plater-Zyberk, a principal architect for the project. Plater-Zyberk said the company wants to make the area "much more than what it is."

.... "We took inspiration from some of our favorite European cities," Plater-Zyberk said, citing Siena, Italy, and various Scottish towns as influences. They also looked at Park City and Pasadena, Calif., as models, and incorporated courtyards, fountains and balconies.

.... To further beautify the area, parking lots will be scattered throughout the area, with one hidden under the cinema — dug into the hill — while others will be surrounded by townhouses, Plater-Zyberk said. All but one small lot will be hidden by building fronts. Parking will also be available along streets throughout the mall.

[delts145]

Cottonwood Mall to shine after overhaul

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_6310131


Architects want the new Cottonwood Mall to be a community with internal streets featuring retail at the ground level and oriented to afford pedestrians spectacular views of Mount Olympus and Twin Peaks. (Rendering courtesy of General Growth Properties)

Also caught this announcement of one of Europe's more prestigious brands to open a store at the Gateway.

http://www.sltrib.com/slc/ci_6251972

[delts145]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Speaking of Valley Fair I wonder what ever happen to their plans? ( The owners were planning on doing the same kind of thing to their mall. ) So fair the only thing going on at that Valley Fair Mall is the new Costco that is getting built on the North end were the old school used to be. I think I remember hearing once the the Costco project was the first phase and that once Costco is finish then phase two will begin with the tearing down of the mall. But Costco is almost finish and so far none of the stores in the mall have moved out or closed. So who knows.

SLC, Here is an article in today's Trib. answering some of that very question regarding Valley Fair Mall. As far as Valley Fair doing the same thing, it never was planned on the same scale of WOW as this Cottonwood Project,even though it was quite nice. These developers or that particular location obviously doesn't have the same cache as Cottonwood.

Mall dreams scaled back

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6310154

Updated Valley Fair Rendering

[Makid]

I think that if WVC accepts the new plan without any residential upfront, the residential component will never be added. It looks like the new Valley Fair Mall is going to be the same thing with just more big boxes and more above ground parking.

[Comrade]

We were having a discussion of the suburbs passing Salt Lake in population and if they would be perceived as the major city when that happens. This just shows you they never will be, because no suburban city seems to have foresight to become a major economic center in the valley. West Valley is a freaking joke, an embarrassment in fact.

And like I originally said -- coincidently, too, because I hadn't read this Valley Fair news when I posted -- I'll wait until construction is over before I get too excited for this Cottonwood project. I would not be the least bit surprised if in a couple years they're toning it down as well.

[SLCforme]

Anyone else think that come 2011 there's going to be more retail than the population of salt lake county can handle?

City Creek Center, Salt Lake City: Downtown redevelopment announced in October 2006 for the sites of the ZCMI Center and Crossroads Plaza to feature retail, office and residential spaces. Expected finish date is 2011.
Trolley Square, Salt Lake City: Renovations announced in October 2006, adding a 50,000-square-foot building, reconfiguring corridors and building a parking structure. The corridors are expected to be completed in October.
Fashion Place, Murray: Renovations announced in June 2007, adding 230,000 square feet. Expected finish date is 2010.
South Towne Center, Sandy: Renovations announced in April 2006, adding 100,000 square feet to the west side.
Valley Fair, West Valley City: Renovations announced in October 2006. The redevelopment also will entail housing and light rail. The project is expected to be finished in 15 to 20 years.

And that's not to mention the farminton station center that will take Davis county people away from the salt lake malls. It just seems like all these malls will be competing with each other and I'm not sure the population can support them all. Let's hope there is a large immigration of people to the area concurrent with all this redeveloped retail.

[delts145]

^^^
That's a good question SLCforme.The answer would probably be sort of a mixed bag. Some reasoning would probably favor a continued positive outlook for the retail sector expansion now taking place.

1. Over the past couple of years the metro Wasatch had developed into the hottest retail market in the country. Part of that was do to its phenominal growth and the fact that it was considered very, and let's put an emphasis on this,"underserved."
2. Explosive growth has happened so fast, that even people like us who pay attention to these things were taken back by the numbers of some of these towns. Increases by multiple hundred's of percent in the past six years is definately explosive.
3. Financial experts are conveying to the retail and development sector in general that minus another 9/11 slowdown, the Wasatch will continue to be among the biggest boom metro's on the continent.
4. Most of these projects such as Fashion Place, and Cottonwood are doing no more than playing a game of catch-up and answering to a very vocal.pent-up demand. One thing that can be said for the Wasatch, that I think often plays in its favor is that it typically does not develop ahead of the curve. Sometimes we tower lovers get very frustrated with this mode of Non-Miami, type aggressiveness, but we also end up with a lot softer downturns than many cities which go through dramatic boom and bust cycles.
5. A large chunk of this growth we have been experiencing is coming from people with high income, sophiticated tastes, Hardly a day passed in L.A. that I was not questioned by film industry people about the Wasatch and expressing there desire to set up a part-time residence. All loved the convenient air travel to and from both coasts, and the proximity of the beautiful mtn's and resorts here. My own high growth area/neighborhood typifies many new areas along the Wasatch such as, Alpine,Highland,So.Jordan,No.Lehi,Cedar Hills, Draper,North Salt Lake, and on and on. Large families,high income,large homes,with a Denali,and a lot of toys in the driveways. My family is still very traditional Old Utah in many ways. My Dad would just as soon have a new tractor as a Mercedes, but we are surrounded by a whole new breed of Utahn that reminds me more of Laguna or Newport Beach than Good Old Utah.

[i-215]

Double Post

[i-215]

Wow!

The way you make that sound Delts, it sounds like people will start singing songs about the Wasatch Front like they did back in the 50's and 60's of LA. "It never rains in .... northern Utah! But when it does, it pours!" lol

As for Valley Fair, I "thought" it was in the same boat as Cottonwood - pretty much a ghost town. I thought that simply because it's been years since I've been there - so naturally, nobody else goes there either, right?

Oh how wrong I am! Valley Fair is pretty busy. Hispanics, in particular, seem to shop there quite a bit. That, and the new Costco, I have a hunch that Valley Fair isn't going to change much in the next 10 years. As long as they can keep people renting (and it doesn't seem to be a problem) why fix something that ain't broke?

[SmilingBob]

Originally Posted by SLCforme

Anyone else think that come 2011 there's going to be more retail than the population of salt lake county can handle?

City Creek Center, Salt Lake City: Downtown redevelopment announced in October 2006 for the sites of the ZCMI Center and Crossroads Plaza to feature retail, office and residential spaces. Expected finish date is 2011.
Trolley Square, Salt Lake City: Renovations announced in October 2006, adding a 50,000-square-foot building, reconfiguring corridors and building a parking structure. The corridors are expected to be completed in October.
Fashion Place, Murray: Renovations announced in June 2007, adding 230,000 square feet. Expected finish date is 2010.
South Towne Center, Sandy: Renovations announced in April 2006, adding 100,000 square feet to the west side.
Valley Fair, West Valley City: Renovations announced in October 2006. The redevelopment also will entail housing and light rail. The project is expected to be finished in 15 to 20 years.

And that's not to mention the farminton station center that will take Davis county people away from the salt lake malls. It just seems like all these malls will be competing with each other and I'm not sure the population can support them all. Let's hope there is a large immigration of people to the area concurrent with all this redeveloped retail.

A couple of things to note about malls and retail development.

The major retailers do a lot of demographic research in determining where and when to move into an area. Our population in Utah is growing by thousands each month. These plans are going to take years to fully develop and 200,000 more people spread out in the Wasatch Front in the next 5 years is enough for most of these developments to survive.

I think the ones in SL county are more likely to be completed.

The ones in Utah County, especially Lehi, I think will not happen or if they do, they will be much smaller than announced.

Most of these updates and additions are to malls and developments that need the updating and are only adding space as the population has grown to handle it.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by i-215

Wow!

The way you make that sound Delts, it sounds like people will start singing songs about the Wasatch Front like they did back in the 50's and 60's of LA. "It never rains in .... northern Utah! But when it does, it pours!" lol

As for Valley Fair, I "thought" it was in the same boat as Cottonwood - pretty much a ghost town. I thought that simply because it's been years since I've been there - so naturally, nobody else goes there either, right?

Oh how wrong I am! Valley Fair is pretty busy. Hispanics, in particular, seem to shop there quite a bit. That, and the new Costco, I have a hunch that Valley Fair isn't going to change much in the next 10 years. As long as they can keep people renting (and it doesn't seem to be a problem) why fix something that ain't broke?

^^^
To be fair to Valley Fair,(Hmmm,could be the title of a new Country/Western song.) Anyway, Plans are still going forward for an upgraded Mall and the new Valley Fair is a big improvement over the old, "even without all the the developers original dreams."

Cottonwood/Holladay is a whole different demographic and its development will reflect that. However,just because its in Holladay doesn't mean the whole metro won't want to go there. I mean, I can see Johnny and Sally from Springville going there for a big date. They might not buy an 800.00 dollar Italian sweater,but they'll hit a movie and stroll around. You can bet our boy Wasatch One will be a frequent flyer at the New Cottonwood, and he'll probably pick up another pair of Gucci loafers, LOL

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

The reason we moved is that the money that bought our new 3-bed 2-bath place in Clearfield would have only bought us a shabby one-bedroom in the city.
I think the real reason that most people don't raise families downtown isn't that they are afraid of downtown, but that they can't afford the space they need to live there.

This is why I think we need more housing downtown. Right now the demand exceeds the supply, therefore the prices keep going up. Also, I would like to see more diversity in the housing market downtown, so those families of almost every socio-economic statuses can call downtown home.

[urbanboy]

Originally Posted by SmilingBob

These plans are going to take years to fully develop and 200,000 more people spread out in the Wasatch Front in the next 5 years is enough for most of these developments to survive.

Hopefully they won't be spreading out. Hopefully we'll have an infill, and build denser communities that can support an efficient public transportation system. We can't afford to let our air quality "go to pot," or else we could lose the draw of the mountains since we won't even be able to see them anymore. I know that sounds a little dramatic and over the top, but air quality will be a major factor when people (families, companies, etc...) are deciding whether or not they would want to move to the Wasatch front.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

This is why I think we need more housing downtown. Right now the demand exceeds the supply, therefore the prices keep going up. Also, I would like to see more diversity in the housing market downtown, so those families of almost every socio-economic statuses can call downtown home.

I guess the ultimate question, putting land aside..... what's the per unit cost of construction for a ....

1) 3 bed, 2 bath freestanding house.

versus

2) 3 bed, 2 bath townhome

3) 3 bed, 2 bath multi-floor condo

4) 3 bed, 2 bath in a highrise.

Add that to the cost of land, it may explain why downtown will always be more expensive. Certainly having a greater supply will help, but I think dense construction simply costs more, and the land makes it become unaffordable.

Does anybody have any construction connections, who could answer my question?

Ok so I read through every single page on this thread...and what is the deal guys. You've got this insanely low office vacancy rate...your economy is bursting at the seams more so than Colorados...why are there no big towers proposed??? You guys should be seeing towers going up even before us in Denver. What is the problem with the developers and banks over there?

[T-Stan]

I, for one, am excited about the announced change to Cottonwood Mall. Growing up, I would refer to Cottonwood Mall as "THE Mall". In the 70's and early eighties, Cottonwood Mall was the upscale mall in SLC. It had the nicest ZCMI around and had some upscale stores and it was always busy. They even added in a few restaurants and there were three Movie theater complexes to choose from (South end of the Mall, across the street to the west and across to the North). I know a lot of people in the area would go to dinner at one of the restaurants (remember American Grill?) and then would shop a bit before a movie. The place was really the center of activity in Holladay.

In the late 80's and early 90's, Fashion Place replaced Cottonwood as it had better access when I-215 was completed and had better stores (Nordstrom) than Cottonwood.

In the late 90's, Cottonwood was really starting to struggle. I was asked to interview with the Management team as Marketing Director. I didn't get the job, but talked to the Mall Manager (whom I knew quite well from when he was at Trolley Square) and he showed me the plans that they had to rennovate Cottonwood Mall. The plans were basically to demolish everything between ZCMI and JC Penny, replace the entire mall in between with a new wing to the east and a 3rd anchor. This was all scraped when the Mall was sold to General Growth Properties and 7 years later we have a new plan...

The blury renderings look wonderful. I would love to see them pull of the European feel that exists in the renderings. I love the Italian Piazza idea (Gateway tried, but didn't keep to the original ideas that would have made their plaza feel more "european")

The plans for Cottonwood could really be a big boost for that area - especially since they are incorporating a lot of housing in the mix.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by InfillJunkie

Ok so I read through every single page on this thread...and what is the deal guys. You've got this insanely low office vacancy rate...your economy is bursting at the seams more so than Colorados...why are there no big towers proposed??? You guys should be seeing towers going up even before us in Denver. What is the problem with the developers and banks over there?

First of all, kudos for reading every single page on this thread. Sixty-some-odd pages is a lot to read. I hope you didn't read it all in one sitting, or else it could cause myopia or something.

Yeah.... I think what happens is the suburbs steal all the office space. I'd be curious to know what the vacancy rate is OUTSIDE downtown. If it's really low, then it would be a vacuum to come to the suburbs.

The only other thing I figure is that the city is playing efficiency ... the sort of logic that says "more people can drive faster on the freeway if people start tailgaiting." Good in theory, until something goes wrong.

If we don't get new square footage downtown NOW, I fear Salt Lake's ability to be the anchor city will be hurt for decades as other cities will catch up (i.e Sandy).

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by InfillJunkie

Ok so I read through every single page on this thread...and what is the deal guys. You've got this insanely low office vacancy rate...your economy is bursting at the seams more so than Colorados...why are there no big towers proposed??? You guys should be seeing towers going up even before us in Denver. What is the problem with the developers and banks over there?

I cry myself to sleep every night wondering the same thing.

[SLC Projects]

Glad to see that Valley Fair has an update on their plans. But however their plans suck!!!

All they are doing are just adding more one story boxes on top of a sea of parking lots. And now the Condos and housing units are out? Lame, very lame.
What are these people thinking? Other then they just want to save time.



The Cottonwood plan is much cooler.