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  #1101  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2007, 8:05 PM
andrew.A..T..X andrew.A..T..X is offline
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Yes, i wonder how long that will be. What do you guys think?
     
     
  #1102  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2007, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ivanwolf View Post
I noticed that they are working on the next floor on the Monarch today, looks about half done. Guess they are starting back up on the tower. I can't count them from my office from the ground so I am not sure what floor it is, but I would guess they have only 2 or 3 left to finish.

360 is laying the 27th floor. this one I can count since i know that the 17th floor is that patio.
I counted the floors on the Monarch from across the street and I believe the one being worked on is the 27th and last regular floor. It is configured the same as all the others.
     
     
  #1103  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by andrew.A..T..X View Post
Yes, i wonder how long that will be. What do you guys think?
Using height information from Emporis:

10'7" per floor times 44 floors means the top floor of 360 will be around 465'8". The highest point of the Frost building is 515'.

If the framing of the top floor of 360 (roughly 466') is finished at the end of November, I'm thinking it might finally surpass the height of Frost around New Year's or a little after.

Do ya'll agree?
     
     
  #1104  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakesalot! View Post
Using height information from Emporis:

10'7" per floor times 44 floors means the top floor of 360 will be around 465'8". The highest point of the Frost building is 515'.

If the framing of the top floor of 360 (roughly 466') is finished at the end of November, I'm thinking it might finally surpass the height of Frost around New Year's or a little after.

Do ya'll agree?
Actually, according to Greg who looked up the heights from the blueprints, the building heights for 360 are:

562 feet 9 1/2 inches to the spire.
473 feet 4 inches to the base of the spire, (this is the mechanical penthouse).
462 feet 1 inch to the top floor, (44th floor).
461 feet 11 inches to the mainroof.

Other heights:

174 feet 2 inches to the 17th floor setback.
87 feet 6 inches to the 9th floor podium.
89 feet 5 1/2 inches is the height of the spire itself.
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  #1105  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakesalot! View Post
Using height information from Emporis:

10'7" per floor times 44 floors means the top floor of 360 will be around 465'8". The highest point of the Frost building is 515'.
All the floors aren't the same height. Most of the residential floors are 10' 7", but the bottom and top floors are taller, then there's all the extra stuff on the top and the spire and all that.
     
     
  #1106  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
Actually, according to Greg who looked up the heights from the blueprints, the building heights for 360 are:

562 feet 9 1/2 inches to the spire.
473 feet 4 inches to the base of the spire, (this is the mechanical penthouse).
462 feet 1 inch to the top floor, (44th floor).
461 feet 11 inches to the mainroof.

Other heights:

174 feet 2 inches to the 17th floor setback.
87 feet 6 inches to the 9th floor podium.
89 feet 5 1/2 inches is the height of the spire itself.
Kevin,

Could you please define "main roof," as it pertains to the listing above? From the plans that I saw, there was no "main roof" identified. Plus, it seems logical that a "main roof" would be the roof of the highest occupied floor.

There are countless buildings in the world which have several different levels included in its crown. So, what is the world-wide, accepted definition of "main roof?"

Also, if I may suggest that you be more specific in your descriptions. It may be misleading or at least confusing to others when you say “462 feet 1 inch to the top floor (44th floor).” Is that measured to the bottom of the 44th floor or the roofline atop the 44th floor?

And as most people know, I still question the actual height of this tower. Is it ~581’ or ~563’? Site plans filed with the city and which are available to the public say ~581’. Yes, I know that site plans are not final design blueprints, nonetheless, we still do not have confirmation from the building’s design architect or its construction foreman/manager.
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  #1107  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 3:58 PM
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The way I understand it is, a main roof on a building is the roof that covers the most area of a building, or the largest roof at the top. It's usually the first "roof" that you come to from the ground, not counting podiums or setbacks. So in priller's drawing below it would be the largest roof on the building at the top.



And yes, typically the mainroof does cover up the highest occupied floor. But I think 360 is a special case where the 44th floor, (highest occupied floor), actually sits on the mainroof. In priller's drawing you'll notice a level up there above the mainroof. I believe that is actually a residential floor. I think that's the reason why there's only a 2 inch difference between the main roof height and highest occupied floor height. Above that floor is another level (the one with a sloped roof), however that one is mechanical. Greg called that level the 45th level. At Emporis, and a few other such databases, officially floor numbers are counted only by counting occupied floors and mechanical floors that are contained within the main structure of a building, in other words below the mainroof. Any levels that are inside a mechanical penthouse are not included in floor numbers. Although some people argue that mechanical rooftop levels should be included in the official floor number, I sort of am in that group. It gets trickier with very tall buildings since many of those have multiple mechanical levels even halfway up the building for air conditioning, water pump stations and elevator equipment. The Sears Tower is an example of this. Most listings for the Sears Tower show it to be 110 floors, (Emporis does not), this is because the mechanical penthouse at the top takes up 2 levels. This is where I kind of disagree with not including mechanical levels, because even though those two mechanical levels that sit atop the mainroof aren't included in the floor count, the other mechanical levels lower in the tower are! Infact, the 103rd floor of the building is the highest occupied floor. There's actually 7 levels above that that contain mechanical stuff, and only 5 are counted in the floor number. The other two are the two levels in the mechanical penthouse.

Here's the Sears Tower's page at Emporis. In the fact listing you'll see the notes about the mechanical penthouse not being included in the floor number, 108 floors instead of 110. And you'll see a fact about the 103rd floor and mechanical levels above it.
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=searstower-chicago-il-usa

As for top floor heights, (highest occupied floor), and what they're measuring, they always are measuring the floor slab height. So if you're standing on the 44th floor in 360, you're feet are at 462 feet 1 inch off the ground.

And about the height discrepancy 563 feet vs 581 feet. I really don't know. I'd like to know that myself. As you pointed out, why chop off 18 feet of spire? Surely that couldn't have cut the cost down all that much, and we all know it's not for zoning reasons since city council has been cool with taller buildings.

I'd also like to find out what the height is for the parapet on the mainroof. I really like to get as many heights as I can for a building as to leave out any doubts of the heights.
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  #1108  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 5:21 PM
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Yes, on the top floor, the two condos at the front of the building are 2-level.

To further confuse things, the plans actually refer to the 2nd story of these top condos as the "floor 45":



And if you go to the 360 building's web site and look at the floorplans, notice that the top floor there is floor "43".

Maybe they decided to reduce the building by one floor? In that case, the 2nd floor of the 2-level apartments would be floor 44. And the spire would be shorter.
     
     
  #1109  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2007, 5:29 PM
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Any new news on The Austonian ?
     
     
  #1110  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 1:00 AM
andrew.A..T..X andrew.A..T..X is offline
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wait.......473 feet to the base of the spire? That means that the 360 won't really be taller than the frost bank its just the antenna is really tall? Correct me if im mistaken but that is kinda dissapointing
     
     
  #1111  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 2:54 AM
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^Yeah the only reason 360 will be taller than Frost is because the spire is gonna exceed it's height since it actually is part of the structure, and therefore technically making it the tallest until The Austonian or ? gets built. At least it's not an antenna, which I believe doesn't count when determining height.
     
     
  #1112  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 3:18 AM
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Someone mentioned that Spring will break ground sometime soon, is this still the case? I was on their site and it amazes me how old the photo's of "the view" are. Amli 2 was only about 8 stories high and 360 only shows a crane. I know they don't want to show the competition but some people might like to see how that view looks before they signoff, and the view should help in selling this buildings units. If and when they start to build I'm pretty sure the Novare cam will show Spring in the camshot, and that will give us a great perspective of Spring's growth at least for a while until they finish and turn it off sometime next year.
     
     
  #1113  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 4:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew.A..T..X View Post
wait.......473 feet to the base of the spire? That means that the 360 won't really be taller than the frost bank its just the antenna is really tall? Correct me if im mistaken but that is kinda dissapointing
Yeah, the roof will be lower than the top of the crown of Frost Bank Tower. But it's still going to make a huge impact on the skyline. The roof of 360 will be 3/4 up to the crown of Frost. And that's a broad roof on 360, so it'll definitely stick up there. One thing though, the elevation of 360's site is also about 16 feet lower than Frost's, 460 feet above sea level vs 476 feet above sea level. But you won't really notice the difference unless you're viewing the skyline from far away.
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Last edited by KevinFromTexas; Jul 6, 2007 at 4:15 AM.
     
     
  #1114  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Strayone View Post
Someone mentioned that Spring will break ground sometime soon, is this still the case?
I'm curious as to the status of Spring as well, since I still would bet that this is one of the projects that won't actually get built. They claim to have plenty of availability of units with 2 bedrooms starting in the mid 400s which would put them at quite a bit more expensive than the 360.
     
     
  #1115  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 5:40 PM
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Another thing to point out about 360 and Frost as that the heighest occupied floor in the Frost tower I believe is at 400'? if Im wrong correct me Kevin. 360's heighest occupied floor will be quite a few feet higher up at 462'. I think the building will seem taller in the fact that there will be a few more floors up on 360 while on Frost its basically the Crown part. I would like to see when 360 is complete on how it would compare to Frost from different angles in the city as Kevin pointed out ealier it is at a lower elevation than Frost is.
     
     
  #1116  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 6:22 PM
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check the Spring thread on TX/South Central page... however I think ground breaking is set for July 21.

I would watch this date closely... many other projects are supposed to break ground in September. If Spring delays past other start dates I would strongly question whether this project happens or not.

However... I believe some of the business around the site have relocated in prep.
     
     
  #1117  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ATXboom View Post
check the Spring thread on TX/South Central page... however I think ground breaking is set for July 21.

I would watch this date closely... many other projects are supposed to break ground in September. If Spring delays past other start dates I would strongly question whether this project happens or not.

However... I believe some of the business around the site have relocated in prep.
I was in their sales office this week helping a friend and "they" said the groundbreaking party is on 7.24 at 10am. Also said they were almost 40% sold. Hum. that seems slow and low.....
     
     
  #1118  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
I was in their sales office this week helping a friend and "they" said the groundbreaking party is on 7.24 at 10am. Also said they were almost 40% sold. Hum. that seems slow and low.....
I think Spring has overpriced their project hence the slow sales. They aren't a luxury class project like Austonian or Four Seasons, yet their price per square foot is quite a bit higher than the 360 which seems to be the best comparison for class of project.

Maybe they are finding their construction costs high enough that they need to price high to get it done at all, but it's a bit disappointing.
     
     
  #1119  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 9:58 PM
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Went by the Four Seasons ealier and noticed they have new signs up and these are much better looking than the old ones with a full color rendering of the Four Seasons Residency Tower. Also went by the Legacy site and they continue to do ground work on that site. Give it a month or two and hopefully we should see a crane rise from there.
     
     
  #1120  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2007, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinGuy View Post
I think Spring has overpriced their project hence the slow sales. They aren't a luxury class project like Austonian or Four Seasons, yet their price per square foot is quite a bit higher than the 360 which seems to be the best comparison for class of project.

Maybe they are finding their construction costs high enough that they need to price high to get it done at all, but it's a bit disappointing.
Just an opinion.... but I think they got greedy..... that's why 360 is kicking their ass in the sales department.
     
     
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