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  #421  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2007, 9:00 AM
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That Orisini/Medici/Piero/Visconti crap needs to be banned from Downtown completely.

Why is it that other global cities are able to get the best of the best while LA is stuck with complete and utter garbage? No offense, but we deserve the best of the best...just like them.

Developers should be following in the footsteps of the South Group by modeling their projects after Elleven, Luma, and Evo. I admire the South Group solely for the fact that their projects are aimed at creating a more livable, walkable, and environmentally friendly LA for the future. Plus, Luma and Evo are quite beautiful to look at. They're both simple and sleek with lots of glass as opposed to that stucco suburban-like crap by the name of Orsini/Medici/Piero/Visconti.

And really, it's not so much the architecture of a building that matters, but more so the function of the building. For example, the TOD at Hollywood/Western ain't exactly the prettiest of developments, yet it functions in a way that's more suitable for an urban environment.
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Last edited by Quixote; Jun 18, 2007 at 9:29 AM.
     
     
  #422  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2007, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
[/b]
I still don't get why, unlike the original web site for the brockman that showed floor plans, the newer one doesn't. And the fact that proj is taking, oh, half a century to complete may be a possible answer to alikaalex's question about what's going on with the loft proj next to the PE bldg.
It still seems odd to me that 620 S Main is no longer listed as a project in the development issue or on Cartifact. Seems like someone would have had to actively delete its listing, no?

It's just a shame to see a project appearing to be so close to completion now seemingly dead in the water.
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Last edited by alikaalex; Jun 18, 2007 at 3:15 PM. Reason: Grammar cleanup :-)
     
     
  #423  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2007, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Westsidelife View Post
And really, it's not so much the architecture of a building that matters, but more so the function of the building. For example, the TOD at Hollywood/Western ain't exactly the prettiest of developments, yet it functions in a way that's more suitable for an urban environment.
Lol..I actually like that apartment on Hollywood and Western. It matches the subway station.

citywatch: My complaint isn't so much the height of buildings as it is the style of some of the buildings being built in areas like City West and Temple Beaudry or whatever that name of that area is. Crap like Medici and it's spawn, Mura, and other wood framed, 5 storied buildings don't belong downtown. From a design standpoint, they won't really age well compared to buildings like Elleven and Luma..or even Hollywood and Western. Those buildings have a refreshing look whereas Orsini and friends are just urban tract homes.
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  #424  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2007, 7:31 PM
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If your criterion is based on the height of a bldg, then I'd say you're being too picky or narrow in your definition. For example, think of the thousands of lowrise apt/condo bldgs, many of them known as "brownstones", that exist in NYC. SF, as another example, also is highly praised for its urbanism, but many of its hoods aren't exactly wall to wall with highrises.

However, if your definition is based on the aesthetics of a bldg or hood, that's another matter. But in that case, the hovel like condition & look of many parts of DTLA has represented the bottom of the barrel for several generations.
Agreed. Mid-rise is not the enemy, bad design is the enemy. Whether a development is tall or short doesn't determine whether or not it contributes to the urban environment.

Yes we all like the tall ones (me too). But the fact is, people are not going to clamor to move downtown if the area is littered with insulting designs like Emerald Terrace.
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  #425  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2007, 10:27 PM
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^ Luckily Emerald Terrace and Orsini is still not in the CORE of Downtown LA. And I would argue that Emerald Terrace is 3 times worse than Palmer's designs. From that shot fridaynla took of Emerald, it looks like something you would find in the cheapest rat-hole, dung communities. Definitely not suitable for a "world-class" city core in the making.

Nevertheless, very few things are "permanent" in LA. Although Emerald Terrace is currently new, in 20-30 years, it will be ready to be demolished to make way for something else. Very few buildings that are newly constructed in the United States are meant to last for a very long time anyway. Plus, you'd be surprised how communities can be much more aesthetically pleasing just by adding in nice landscaping and clean the area up of trash. Above par design like the buildings along Broadway can also do very little if the area is dirty. Currently, Broadway's buildings are beautiful but the area is disgusting! Why? The ratty businesses that are there negate even the most beautiful buildings.

So the bright side to all of this is, at least parking lots are being devoured/infilled by new developments, and we do have high-quality designs sprouting up here and there (South Group, Met Lofts, Disney Hall, LA Live, etc.), and when the time is right, the crappy ones will give way again to new and HOPEFULLY better designs.
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  #426  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2007, 11:10 PM
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People love to complain about design and height but IMO we should need to be happy that a developer is building at such a rapid pace. Palmer doesn't have time or patients to change the design or concept because it is working so well & is making MOHNEY [I'm glad someone is as encouragement to others about the DT market]. His medici, orsini, visconti [although crap because I used to live there] bring in hundreds of semi-affluent people downtown as well as put people above retail [works for walkability].

These are cheap to build apartments with quite a bit of amenities;but, its not like they are condos and will be there for 100 years. 15yrs or so they will be knocked down for a highrise when the vast amounts of land downtown dissappear. It makes no sense for a developer to waste money on going higher [just b/c it looks nice] if it is more expensive and there is plenty of land available.

Be patient, NYC, Chicago, Portland, San Diego's urban areas were not fixed in a day, they started long before us. We will soon have our world class downtown which will be better than the latter, but we have to do whatever we can for the time being to get people down there!

Last edited by hughfb3; Jun 18, 2007 at 11:45 PM.
     
     
  #427  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 1:43 AM
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I see a lot of people moaning here about Emerald Terrace. I don't care for the design either, but guess what folks? IT'S AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT. What do you expect? Meta Housing/Century Housing are not going to go out and hire a world-class starchitect and use super high quality materials. That would defeat what they are trying to accomplish. Also, it isn't located in the most lovely part of town. I'd say it's a big improvement over what was on that lot plus much of the current housing stock in that neighborhood. Please don't get on your soap-boxes and call me patronizing or elitist - those are facts and economics of the matter. Meta Housing/Century Housing should be commended for being willing to provide housing for the less affluent members of our community.

The developers of GLO have no such excuse since it's market rate. THAT project looks like absolute $hit to me. Who came up with the color scheme? ACK! And those tacky roof overhangs look like a cheap attempt to add distinctiveness to an otherwise very lacking project. It didn't work. That part of town would have been better off with a surface parking lot for a few more years until something better could be proposed rather than that eye-sore. Even Medici et al. are better looking in my opinion. Now that's saying something.

What I am really upset about is Meta Housing/Century Housing's Northwest Gateway project just down the street from Emerald Terrace, which is being built in front of the old subway tunnel and on top of it's right of way, effectively preventing it from ever (in our lifetime most anyway) being used again for a light rail or trolley route to Glendale/Burbank. That would have made a ton of sense - what a short-sighted move!
     
     
  #428  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 1:53 AM
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The only problem I have w/ Medici, Orisini, etc... is the lack of retail underneath. I haven't seen all of the bldgs, mostly the one's on Fig, but I don't see any room for stores underneath???
     
     
  #429  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 2:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladowntowner View Post
Northwest Gateway project just down the street from Emerald Terrace, which is being built in front of the old subway tunnel and on top of it's right of way, effectively preventing it from ever (in our lifetime most anyway) being used again for a light rail or trolley route to Glendale/Burbank. That would have made a ton of sense - what a short-sighted move!

Actually, the tunnels have been blocked from the inside long before Northwest Gateway ever filed for its building permit. The gigantic skyscrapers of of Bunker Hill have deep foundations that have pushed far enough below the surface to block the old subway tunnel from ever being used again!
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  #430  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 5:03 AM
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Actually, the tunnels have been blocked from the inside long before Northwest Gateway ever filed for its building permit. The gigantic skyscrapers of of Bunker Hill have deep foundations that have pushed far enough below the surface to block the old subway tunnel from ever being used again!
You're right. I think it even started with the Westin Bonaventure.
     
     
  #431  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 5:05 AM
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So..after some hunting and searching, I found some old downtown LA pics. Downtown looks hauntingly beautiful back then. Try to figure when these were taken.















Proposed 'Bunker Hill Square'


Miracle Mile


Little Tokyo Redevlopment
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  #432  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 5:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sodha View Post
The only problem I have w/ Medici, Orisini, etc... is the lack of retail underneath. I haven't seen all of the bldgs, mostly the one's on Fig, but I don't see any room for stores underneath???
They do have retail spaces, at least Medici and Piero do for sure. The Orsini might (phase II looks like it probably will). However, most of Medici's retail (approx. 20,000 SF) has remained vacant, except for a concert ticket broker and nail salon. I walk by it everyday to work and see the broker's For Lease signs on all the windows. Hopefully that will change when 1110 Ingraham and Lucas One get under way.
     
     
  #433  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 5:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ladowntowner View Post
The developers of GLO have no such excuse since it's market rate. THAT project looks like absolute $hit to me. Who came up with the color scheme? ACK! And those tacky roof overhangs look like a cheap attempt to add distinctiveness to an otherwise very lacking project. It didn't work. That part of town would have been better off with a surface parking lot for a few more years until something better could be proposed rather than that eye-sore. Even Medici et al. are better looking in my opinion. Now that's saying something.
I think Glo isn't so bad. I'll agree it's not the most inspired design, but I think it brings some bold color and contemporary variety to City West. Once the Starbucks is open on the corner and other retail tenants have moved in, it will be an asset to the neighborhood. I just wish they'd finish the damn thing already.... it's been sitting near finished for over 6 weeks now.
     
     
  #434  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesBeauty View Post
Actually, the tunnels have been blocked from the inside long before Northwest Gateway ever filed for its building permit. The gigantic skyscrapers of of Bunker Hill have deep foundations that have pushed far enough below the surface to block the old subway tunnel from ever being used again!
Doh! Ya got me there! I had read about and forgotten that a long time ago. Another tragedy for mass transit. A trolley/light rail-line connecting DT to Glendale/Burbank seems like a no-brainer and that old tunnel/right of way would've been ideal as it was the most direct route to accomplish that (probably why it had been used in the past, eh?). Trying to reproduce it now would be so expensive as to make it nearly impossible.
     
     
  #435  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 6:17 AM
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Downtown looks hauntingly beautiful back then.
Sorry, threehundred, but if you think the hood was beautiful back then, hauntingly or otherwise, then I'll have to say the architects who designed the orsini are the greatest in the world, emerald terrace is the height of excellence, & deadzones are a figment of everyone's imagination.

BTW, I do give some slack to the devlpr of the emerald because they are working under the restraints of subsidized housing. However, would it really have busted their budget to make the row of windows inserted on both sides of the raised corner walls, which have the cornice on top, a bit larger?

Some ppl aren't happy with new bldgs that are too short or made out of wood, or both. Now don't get me wrong. I'd be the first to say that nothing is better or more exciting than very $$$ highrise bldgs, made of steel & concrete. For instance, if parkfifth doesn't get built, I'm gonna be POed to the 10th degree. But I have to be a realist too, & accept that economics & consumer demand are going to have the last word in what's built or not built.

Can a new highrise condo or apt bldg have units that sell for around $300k----& that are more than, say, 400 sf----or rent for no more than $1500 per month? If so, they'll sell or lease quickly, or at least have a much bigger pool of potential buyers or renters.

Do shorter wood framed bldgs provide a devlpr with profit margins that are no more lucrative, or even less lucrative than they are for tall bldgs? If so, alot more devlprs will start switching over to highrise construction. They'll ask: what the hell is Astani worried about?! And why did a spokesperson for the devlpr of the Hanover apt bldg tell ppl at a conference last yr that their bldg wouldn't pencil out in today's economy?!

Another thing: I've read that highrise projs are easier to build in chicago or further east because there are more experienced contractors & suppliers than there are in LA, & easier access to fabricators of big bldg material (steel beams) too. Also, the cost of such devlpt is lower because there's no need to worry about making them quake resistant.

As for shorter, wood framed bldgs, they're all over SF. And the last time I checked, that city was, & is, admired by many for its urbanism:




Finally, I had to be in DT tonight & the thing that struck me (& bothered me too) was how surprisingly quiet the streets & sidewalks were. There still needs to be a greater sense of momentum in the hood, where far more housing----lowrise or highrise----& far more ppl living in them create a greater sense of completeness.

IOW, I was so busy noticing all the unfinished business, meaning all the parking lots, scabby old bldgs & even new projs that have yet to be occupied (a lot of windows in certain new condo & apt bldgs looked quite dark), that I certainly couldn't be sweating over whether a bldg is 5 floors or 50 floors, or is architecturally 1000 times better (or worse) than the old wood framed row houses in a city like SF.
     
     
  #436  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 6:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ladowntowner View Post
That part of town would have been better off with a surface parking lot for a few more years until something better could be proposed rather than that eye-sore. Even Medici et al. are better looking in my opinion. Now that's saying something.
I've heard pro & con about even a landmark like Disney Hall, so I take everyone's opinion in stride. However, I sense that if you really prioritized things in a way that made sense to me, you'd say a new condo proj like GLO was AS BAD, but certainly NOT WORSE, than a depressing, deadzone parking lot.

As for those who are unhappy about the lack of retail under many condo or apt bldgs, you gotta realize there are a lot of streets in NYC made up of nothing but old brownstone housing or newer highrise devlpt, where retail is almost no where to be seen. More important, you gotta be fully aware of how tough it is for retailers to turn a profit in many locations in certain hoods. That goes double for DT, cuz even today, while it's not surprising at all the zillions of ppl stuck in their cars on the jammed fwys around there, it is puzzling how so many of them are not willing to spend enough or any time & $$ in DT itself. That peculiar contradiction hit me quite clearly this evening.
     
     
  #437  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 7:25 AM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
I've heard pro & con about even a landmark like Disney Hall, so I take everyone's opinion in stride. However, I sense that if you really prioritized things in a way that made sense to me, you'd say a new condo proj like GLO was AS BAD, but certainly NOT WORSE, than a depressing, deadzone parking lot.
It's known as sarcasm. Just trying to get my point across at how fugly and gag inducing I think GLO is. Even the name sucks. Did I mention it's fugly, too? Yeah? Just checking.

Anyway, that's just my meaningless opinion.
     
     
  #438  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 7:33 AM
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In some way a parking lot is better because at least its easy to buy and build on. Now we are stuck with this building for a while.
     
     
  #439  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 8:12 AM
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I love these vintage pics of DT. Sometimes I feel as though DT back then looked more futuristic than now, dont know why though.

My guess on the year of pics
Pic 1 '83 or '84
Pic 2 & 3: '86/'87
Pic 4 '83
Pic 5 '84 or '85
Pic 6 '82 or '83
Pic 7 '79 or '80
     
     
  #440  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2007, 9:38 AM
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Question

Anyone heard what's going on with The Pan American Lofts? They've been ready for months now and everytime I pass by it it looks finished but eerie-ly empty. Even the banners advertising the lofts look faded. At night the whole building is dark.
     
     
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