AUSTIN | Projects & Construction II

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by Strayone

Nice bit of research guys, when and if they break ground on The Austonian, I will pop a cork of some good bubbly. This has been the one project that I wish to be built. I love the location and that pocket of 2nd st. and Congress will become noticeably dense, Kevin you mentioned breaking ground in the summer, so it shouldn't be to long before we know for sure.

Bubbly!!!!!!!! Share!!!!!!!! (as opposed to "Cher" )

[weatherguru18]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

The Austonian statistical facts about the building - how it stacks up in Texas.

Yesterday I was adding the heights for The Austonian and also adding the statistical facts for the building. I knew The Austonian would be big news, but I hadn't quite realized all the details until I started to look.

First, some of you may know that buildings have their heights listed according to their design. Spires, domes, crowns, and any rooftop structure that is part of the design of the building is included in its official height. Antennas, flagpoles, signs, air conditioning units, or any other type of rooftop structure that isn't part of the design of the building, is not included in its height.

As for the statistical facts about how The Austonian ranks. It's quite exciting.

First of all, not only will it be the tallest in Austin by 120 feet, (beating 360 Condominiums), but also the tallest in Texas outside of Houston and Dallas. The Austonian will be the tallest all residential building in Texas, and guess what building it will beat to get that title...360 Condominiums, also in Austin. I had also known that 360 Condominiums in Austin was big news, and that it would rank high in residential buildings in Texas. But I hadn't realized that it would actually be the new tallest all residential building in the state. The current tallest all residential building in Texas now is the Mercantile Building in Dallas which is an old office building that has been turned into condos. That building is 523 feet to the spire and 430 feet to the roof. 360 Condominiums in Austin will be 563 feet tall to the spire and 472 feet to the roof.

The Austonian joins Dallas' new Mandarin Oriental Dallas & Residences as one of two skyscrapers in Texas over 600 feet that will have residential uses. The Mandarin Oriental Dallas & Residences also contains a hotel component, but The Austonian is all residential, making it the tallest all residential in the state, and at 33 feet taller than the Mandarin Oriental & Residences, tallest building in Texas with any residential.

That's great news for Austin! However, Houston's new 501' One Park Tower will also beat out the 360 Condos. Didn't the developer look at these things? Man, Austin has great potential. But don't count Houston out yet. Houston is just getting started with a huge building boom with as many as 6 highrises/skyscrapers planned for the CBD. Maybe we can join the club of 600' all residential buildings. I'm jealous. Great job guys!

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by weatherguru18

That's great news for Austin! However, Houston's new 501' One Park Tower will also beat out the 360 Condos.

No it won't. Since building heights are officially listed counting spires, 360 Condominiums will be taller than One Park Tower by 62 feet. Also, Houston does have another residential building that is taller than One Park Tower, the Huntington Tower at 503 feet. That building was the previous record holder for tallest residential building in Texas, until the Mercantile Building in Dallas went residential.

Also developers don't always care about records with their buildings. 360 Condominiums here Austin will be our new tallest building, and the developers haven't even mentioned it. I don't even think they care, especially since they knocked off 19 feet of height from the spire. Down to 563 feet, from 581 feet.

And believe me, I don't doubt that Houston will see taller residential towers in the area of say 600 feet or so. I can't imagine how cool it would be to have a 600 or 700 foot residential building smack dab in the middle of Houston for the residents to enjoy the views of all the highrises around town.

[KevinFromTexas]

More on building heights counting spires. Architects and developers have been including spire heights in their buildilngs for a very long time.

Look at the Empire State Building. When the developers of that building planned it they had envisioned having dirigeables, (blimps/air ships), moor, (dock), at the building's top. They actually expected passengers of blimps to willingly climb down a ladder from the air ship to the building's top at 1,250 feet above the street. No kidding. Of course, that proposal never came to frution. Infact, as construction was wrapping up on the building in 1931, the stock market crashed and companies went out of business. Atleast half of the building stood empty for many years, earning it the nickname, "The Empty State Building". The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall from the ground to the mooring mast. The building has 102 floors. The mooring mast actually has an observation deck at the 102nd floor, but it's off limits these days to the public. It's quite small and can't handle the huge crowds. The height from the ground to the tip of the antenna is 1,454 feet tall. That height is not the official height for the building however since the antenna is used for utility purposes, for communication. It could even be removed in the future if it's deterimined to be of no use, although that's not likely. The antenna was added years after the building was built, sometime in the early 60s I believe, about 30 years after the building was finished.

Perhaps the most famous building with a spire is the Chyrsler Building in New York. The building is 1,046 feet tall from the ground to the tip of the spire and it has 77 floors. The height to the roof is 925 feet tall. The spire atop the Chrysler Building is decorative. It serves no purpose other than for aesthetics, for the design of the building. So it is included in its height. The Chrysler Building was the first building in the world to be more than 1,000 feet tall, and only the 2nd structure in human history to exceed 1,000 feet, the first being the Eiffel Tower.

Interesting little sound byte here. This is Marshall Germetta doing an interview with the BBC a while back. Mashall is the senior editor at Emporis.com, (the website I'm also an editor at). I actually met Marshall 2 years ago when he came down to Austin for a visit. Marshall's great.
https://community.emporis.com/files/mp3/bbc-manchester-marshallgerometta-2007-02-13.mp3

[crewer]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

...Interesting little sound byte here. This is Marshall Germetta doing an interview with the BBC a while back. Mashall is the senior editor at Emporis.com, (the website I'm also an editor at). I actually met Marshall 2 years ago when he came down to Austin for a visit. Marshall's great.
https://community.emporis.com/files/mp3/bbc-manchester-marshallgerometta-2007-02-13.mp3

Interesting sound bit being broadcasted from the Beetham Tower in Manchester. Frankly, it's one Hell of an ugly skyscraper. Some building projects should never advance beyond the drafting table.

[jgouger]

Looks like the Marriott development will go through... Wonder what is going to happen to Escuelita de Alma, and Tesoro's. Seems like they are never mentioned.


City to offer Las Manitas $750,000 forgivable loan
'Iconic' restaurant would move up the block
Listen to this article or download audio file.Click-2-Listen

By Sarah Coppola
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Monday, June 04, 2007

City leaders hope to save a popular downtown restaurant by offering its owners a $750,000 forgivable loan to renovate and relocate to another space that the restaurateurs own.

Las Manitas has been in business since 1981 at 211 Congress Ave, but like other buildings on the block, it is slated to be demolished and redeveloped into a $185 million Marriott hotel complex.

To help the restaurant, a favorite of city and state politicos and regular folks, too, the city will offer owners Lidia and Cynthia Perez $750,000 to renovate and relocate to 227 Congress Ave, a century-old building the sisters own.

The City Council will vote on the loan Thursday.

The money comes from a Business Retention and Enhancement Program the council created in February amid public debate about the future of the restaurant. The program offers low-interest loans to established businesses that are located in or plan to move to Congress Avenue between 11th Street and Town Lake, or East Sixth Street between Congress Ave. and Interstate 35.

The fund is made up of fees the city charges developers for things such as the temporary use of parking lanes and closing alleys during construction along East Sixth or Congress Ave.

The loan could help end a months-long debate about the fate of the Congress Ave. restaurant that supporters describe as an Austin icon. The Perez sisters have balked at having to move their restaurant, and negotiations with the hotel development company White Lodging Services Corp. have not yielded a compromise.

The loan will have fixed interest rate of 6 percent for 20 years. Las Manitas will provide a cash equity contribution of $94,000 towards the building renovation, according to the city's description of the proposal.

After five years of the owners operating the renovated location, the city will forgive the outstanding principle balance of the loan if the owners have complied with loan covenants, made timely payments and retained at least 15 full-time employees, according to the loan description.

The city is supposed to offer loans up to $250,000 through the business-retention program.

But Las Manitas qualifies for a "special circumstance" provision that allows the city to increase the loan amount, because it's an existing business within the program's geographic boundaries and because it must relocate due to development, the loan description says.

[Jdawgboy]

I noticed yesterday when I went through downtown that they took down both the signs that were up for the Four Seasons Residency tower and was wondering if anybody heard anything new on that project? Are they planning on starting very soon or is there a problem? Also there is a sign a bit further over about the new Waterfront district and there is a number on the sign for more info.

[andrew.A..T..X]

hi everybody. Im going to join the discussion, ive been following it for a while now but couldn't get a email address that worked. Anyway, although priller beat me to it, I am in the process of creating the future austin downtown using google sketch-up. But i will include t stacys tower and others.

[Saddle Man]

Originally Posted by jgouger

Looks like the Marriott development will go through... Wonder what is going to happen to Escuelita de Alma, and Tesoro's. Seems like they are never mentioned.


City to offer Las Manitas $750,000 forgivable loan
'Iconic' restaurant would move up the block
Listen to this article or download audio file.Click-2-Listen

By Sarah Coppola
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Monday, June 04, 2007

City leaders hope to save a popular downtown restaurant by offering its owners a $750,000 forgivable loan to renovate and relocate to another space that the restaurateurs own.

Las Manitas has been in business since 1981 at 211 Congress Ave, but like other buildings on the block, it is slated to be demolished and redeveloped into a $185 million Marriott hotel complex.

To help the restaurant, a favorite of city and state politicos and regular folks, too, the city will offer owners Lidia and Cynthia Perez $750,000 to renovate and relocate to 227 Congress Ave, a century-old building the sisters own.

The City Council will vote on the loan Thursday.

The money comes from a Business Retention and Enhancement Program the council created in February amid public debate about the future of the restaurant. The program offers low-interest loans to established businesses that are located in or plan to move to Congress Avenue between 11th Street and Town Lake, or East Sixth Street between Congress Ave. and Interstate 35.

The fund is made up of fees the city charges developers for things such as the temporary use of parking lanes and closing alleys during construction along East Sixth or Congress Ave.

The loan could help end a months-long debate about the fate of the Congress Ave. restaurant that supporters describe as an Austin icon. The Perez sisters have balked at having to move their restaurant, and negotiations with the hotel development company White Lodging Services Corp. have not yielded a compromise.

The loan will have fixed interest rate of 6 percent for 20 years. Las Manitas will provide a cash equity contribution of $94,000 towards the building renovation, according to the city's description of the proposal.

After five years of the owners operating the renovated location, the city will forgive the outstanding principle balance of the loan if the owners have complied with loan covenants, made timely payments and retained at least 15 full-time employees, according to the loan description.

The city is supposed to offer loans up to $250,000 through the business-retention program.

But Las Manitas qualifies for a "special circumstance" provision that allows the city to increase the loan amount, because it's an existing business within the program's geographic boundaries and because it must relocate due to development, the loan description says.

What a total crock of sh!t.

[priller]

Originally Posted by andrew.A..T..X

Anyway, although priller beat me to it, I am in the process of creating the future austin downtown using google sketch-up. But i will include t stacys tower and others.

Great! The more the merrier.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by andrew.A..T..X

hi everybody. Im going to join the discussion, ive been following it for a while now but couldn't get a email address that worked. Anyway, although priller beat me to it, I am in the process of creating the future austin downtown using google sketch-up. But i will include t stacys tower and others.

Awesome! I look forward to it. Welcome to the forum, by the way.

[LiveattheOasis]

So, my only thought is ... do we have a redesign of the Marriott towers yet? Those early ones were hideous.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I noticed yesterday when I went through downtown that they took down both the signs that were up for the Four Seasons Residency tower and was wondering if anybody heard anything new on that project? Are they planning on starting very soon or is there a problem? Also there is a sign a bit further over about the new Waterfront district and there is a number on the sign for more info.

I don't know why the signs were taken down. I assume it's temporary. In fact, the Four Seasons Residences Town Lake, Austin website has been updated and includes the following rendering, depicting a tower which definitely exceeds the 400’ mark (probably in the 420’-480’ range).



With regards to the Waterfront District signage – I have not seen it yet. But, land owners P. Lorenz and R. Knight want to sell the land or team-up with a single developer to design and develop the district as a whole, i.e. Victory Park in Dallas (and I’m not saying it’s going to look anything like Victory Park – but the principle is the same).

[jgouger]

Originally Posted by kingkirbythegreat

What a total crock of sh!t.

I agree. This would never happen in Houston or Dallas, and what makes it even worse is that the city is spending tax payer money to move a restaurant when the owners of Las Manitas don't even own the land the restaurant sits on!!!

The commentary on the Statesman is one of outrage: http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/s...7/06/04/las_manitas_forgivable_loan.html

[priller]

Funny that they chose an old picture to add their rendering to. No Frost Tower, no big Hilton.

[Strayone]

What an odd picture that is of the Four Seasons res., if that is to scale then it is one massive building.

[GoldenBoot]

I agree.

I believe the building is going to end up thinner than what is depicted in the rendering. It's only as wide as the Cesar Chavez frontage of the valet parking lot to the north and east of the hotel – which is less than a ½ block.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by jgouger

I agree. This would never happen in Houston or Dallas, and what makes it even worse is that the city is spending tax payer money to move a restaurant when the owners of Las Manitas don't even own the land the restaurant sits on!!!

The commentary on the Statesman is one of outrage: http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/s...7/06/04/las_manitas_forgivable_loan.html

Actually, according to the article, it says that the funds are generated by not using tax payer's money. But through a fee developers pay for certain things.

Originally Posted by The article

The fund is made up of fees the city charges developers for things such as the temporary use of parking lanes and closing alleys during construction along East Sixth or Congress Ave.

I think people are kind of jumping the gun here.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by priller

Funny that they chose an old picture to add their rendering to. No Frost Tower, no big Hilton.

Isn;t that amazing. We have seen other developers do that as well. Makes the impact of their building look more impressive on the syline..... and suggests better views.

We had a debate of the forum before about similar things. Spring for one had been omiting projects around them (on thier model) to make the views look better. (they have filled some in I believe). The Austonian is using photo images to suggest views that do not include Altavida, W or The new AMLI. All of witch will geratly affect the views of the lower floors.

I understand some folks think it just falls under "buyer beware"
Personally, I think it is unethical.

I was helping a friend look at units at Spring and 360 last week and took great pleasure in watching the sales folk bristle when I brought up future project that could block views they were "selling".

Evil joy, I am sorry....

[LiveattheOasis]

I definitely agree with you Michael that it's unethical. I know I would be more likely to buy from someone who laid everything out in front of me first, especially when a little research will show what parts of downtown they "forgot" to tell you about.