Paying the Rent in New York

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by totheskies

what am I missing from NY again???

A smug sense of superiority while you live in borderline poverty?

[pottebaum]

what am I missing from NY again???

A lot.

[EtherealMist]

Originally Posted by skylife

Yes, and I'm leaving DC. It's too expensive here and I would like to buy a little condo sometime soon. I can buy in another city, so why stay if I can't do that here? How is not wanting to live in Manhattan because it's too expensive hateful to anybody? I don't get it.

I think DC4Life meant questioning other people's dicesion to live in Manhattan, not your own. If they want to do it, then obviously they think its worth it and don't 'hate' on them for it.

Originally Posted by Master Shake

That is why Chicago is a better comparison to New York, with its lower cost of living, but with its unprecedented skyscraper core, arts and business community.

What do yuo mean by better comparison?

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by shovel_ready

You're forgetting car insurance, fuel, and maintenance costs.

With that said....back when I lived in NYC...

Rent = $600
Bills = $100
Car = $0 (duh!)
Monthly Metrocard = $76

Lifestyle, Amenities = $Priceless

How many people were you living with, and where?

My cousin lived in NYC recently....paid $600/month. "Great deal!" I thought. Then I found out he was sharing a 2 bedroom with 4 other people. His "room" was the bay window of the living room.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by EtherealMist

I think DC4Life meant questioning other people's dicesion to live in Manhattan, not your own. If they want to do it, then obviously they think its worth it and don't 'hate' on them for it.



What do yuo mean by better comparison?

We keep coming back to this point....I think alot of people are amused/surprised/bitter/resentful/etc about the absurd cliche living in NYC has... i.e. a perception that it's very special indeed, but not that special.

More generally, it all comes down to what parts of lifestyle people value; i.e. an average person could not expect to acheive things like a little space or privacy in NYC, since you'd be packed in with roommates (see previous post). If all they value is space, the ability to drive everywhere, but dont want the plethora of cultural amenities, walkability, etc, then Houston makes a great deal of sense.

But the thing is, alot of us question those things people value, particularly in regards to NYC, because of the perception that it's "cool" value has been so overblown.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by antinimby

Ignore those numbers. I just randomly picked them out of the air to make my point.

However with that said, $50,000 doesn't go very far in NY.

This is a very high-tax State and City so $50,000 in NY is probably equivalent to maybe $40,000 in another city.

Actually, 50K/year in NYC is closer to 25-30K in most American cities based on those various Cost of Living calculators floating around the net.

[EtherealMist]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

More generally, it all comes down to what parts of lifestyle people value; i.e. an average person could not expect to acheive things like a little space or privacy in NYC, since you'd be packed in with roommates (see previous post). If all they value is space, the ability to drive everywhere, but dont want the plethora of cultural amenities, walkability, etc, then Houston makes a great deal of sense.

In Manhattan you mean, the average person can definitely expect space and privacy in NYC.

[DC4life]

How can anyone honestly say that I can get the same thing in another city for cheaper. Last time I checked - there is only one NYC, SF, DC, Cleveland, Boston, Chicago and so on. Living in Houston resembles living in Houston. Nothing more. And that's not a knock on Houston.

Master Shake were you serious when you said that the majority of people would prefer to live in Houston than NY? Come on slim, you don't really believe that? I can go into a long list of things that NY offers that no other city can't even come close too and I really don't like NY all that much. But I recognize that it is the 800 pound gorilla in these United States.

[ginsan2]

It's interesting to note, at this point, that the lifestyles of the super wealthy in NYC are not what one would think.

The wealthy in NYC consist of a few disparate groups:
1. People that live there part of the time and then fly off to Jupiter Island or Miami to pass their winters.
2. Foreign investors that buy units and rent them off to #1.
3. The super wealthy who actually live in NYC on a day-to-day basis, 365, and usually work 24-7 as support staff for wealthy interests (lawyers, special doctors, bankers, etc).

My NYC family (not me, middle class as I am) that live in Manhattan are of the "outrageously wealthy" #3 type. The thing is, while they live in NYC and certainly enjoy it... Even for the wealthy, even for them, it's such a hard life. With servants and au pairs and personal shoppers and those poor sods who run the 24 hour bodegas, their lives are still incredibly hard to manage.

What I've noticed over the years is less that they enjoy living in NYC, and more that their glassy smiles hide the incredible strain of the very basic lie that makes Manhattan so desirable: "It's worth it". I get the same line from friends of mine who have children. Why are you paying this much for a one-bedroom? "Because it's worth it." After all, it's supposed to be fabulous, living in NYC when you're wealthy and part of such an exclusive group of people. But no one says anything concerning the actual hardships of day-to-day life, in some weird code of conduct that orders the shallow upper-echelons of society.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

Actually, 50K/year in NYC is closer to 25-30K in most American cities based on those various Cost of Living calculators floating around the net.

I pay $950 in a great Brooklyn neighborhood and I don't own a car. I think I save money living in NYC.

How would I save money and maintain my lifestyle if I moved to another city? There is no American city as transit-oriented as NYC. In every other city I would be losing some measure of quality of life by choosing to remain car-free.

In addition to choosing between a car and less mobility, I wouldn't save much in rent. What walkable, older American city with good jobs has super-cheap rent? In Chicago I could save a few hundred a month but not in an equivalent neighborhood. Same with Philly, where outside of Center City (which isn't all that cheap) there are no Brooklyn-type neighborhoods.

Super cheap rent is not at the top of my list. I'm not moving to Terre Haute.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Crawford

IIn addition to choosing between a car and less mobility, I wouldn't save much in rent. What walkable, older American city with good jobs has super-cheap rent? In Chicago I could save a few hundred a month but not in an equivalent neighborhood. Same with Philly, where outside of Center City (which isn't all that cheap) there are no Brooklyn-type neighborhoods.

I don't know what you mean by a Brooklyn-type neighborhood but you can live in South Philadelphia...Bella Vista...Queen Village...and still survive without a car and it cheaper than Center City. I've been saying for 5 yeara that the place to buy investment property was down there as the wave from CC slowly makes it wasy down....

[fleonzo]

I pay $2,600 (Gas, Electric, Parking,etc...are all extra) for my own 800 sq ft
modern one bedroom near the South Street Seaport (Lower Manhattan) I belive it's a bargin! It may not be in other parts of the country maybe not but again I'll say it again....you have to experience living here to understand. If you don't want to that too is cool...but don't bug out on us that choose to do so!

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by fleonzo

I pay $2,600 (Gas, Electric, Parking,etc...are all extra) for my own 800 sq ft
modern one bedroom near the South Street Seaport (Lower Manhattan) I belive it's a bargin! It may not be in other parts of the country maybe not but again I'll say it again....you have to experience living here to understand. If you don't want to that too is cool...but don't bug out on us that choose to do so!

I pay $2,600 (Gas, Electric, Parking,etc...are all extra) for my own 800 sq ft
modern one bedroom near the South Street Seaport (Lower Manhattan). I believe it's a bargin! It may not be in other parts of the country but I'll repeat again- you have to experience living here to understand. If you don't want to live here then that's cool...but don't bug out on those of us that choose to do so!

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by fleonzo

I'll say it again....you have to experience living here to understand.

once again, i just don't think that's true. i don't live in manhattan, never have and most likely never will, but i can easily understand why it may be worth the expense for some people to live there. if one of your top priorities is to tap into that hyper-urban fast-paced skyscraper-riddled energy that is manhattan, then you're gonna put up with a lot of cost to experience, live in, and be a part of that one of a kind vibe. for other people, that might not be one of their priorities in life and they don't neccessarily have to live in manhattan to know that about themselves.

one of my big priorities of living is to live in a big urban city where i can lead an easy car-free life. on the surface NYC sounds perfect for me, but i have other priorites as well, and one of those is being close to my family, in touch with my roots. NYC offers me neither of those things. i don't live in chicago just because it was a big city that offered me an easy car free life, i live here because i am of here. chicago isn't a city i chose, it chose me. chicago isn't a city i merely live in, chicago is my identity, it's in my genes, it's my very soul. i know that in our transitory world these old-timey concepts of lineage, ancestry & and heritage may seem quaintly cute and anachronistic to those of the globe trotting generation, but to me it's very, very important.

why the life story? i'm just using it to point out how different priorities lead people to live in different places, and i don't have to live in every other place in the world to know that the one that i do live in was tailor made for me. i can understand why manhattan is such an amzingly awesome place. i can fully appreciate that many people feel it is worth every single last penny they own to have the privelege of living there, but as the late great singer/song writer jim croce once said "new york's not my home". and that's perfectly cool becuase it physically can't be home for all 6 billion of us anyway.

[EtherealMist]

I think you make alot of sense, Steely

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

once again, i just don't think that's true. i don't live in manhattan, never have and most likely never will, but i can easily understand why it may be worth the expense for some people to live there. if one of your top priorities is to tap into that hyper-urban fast-paced skyscraper-riddled energy that is manhattan, then you're gonna put up with a lot of cost to experience, live in, and be a part of that one of a kind vibe. for other people, that might not be one of their priorities in life and they don't neccessarily have to live in manhattan to know that about themselves.

one of my big priorities of living is to live in a big urban city where i can lead an easy car-free life. on the surface NYC sounds perfect for me, but i have other priorites as well, and one of those is being close to my family, in touch with my roots. NYC offers me neither of those things. i don't live in chicago just because it was a big city that offered me an easy car free life, i live here because i am of here. chicago isn't a city i chose, it chose me. chicago isn't a city i merely live in, chicago is my identity, it's in my genes, it's my very soul. i know that in our transitory world these old-timey concepts of lineage, ancestry & and heritage may seem quaintly cute and anachronistic to those of the globe trotting generation, but to me it's very, very important.

why the life story? i'm just using it to point out how different priorities lead people to live in different places, and i don't have to live in every other place in the world to know that the one that i do live in was tailor made for me. i can understand why manhattan is such an amzingly awesome place. i can fully appreciate that many people feel it is worth every single last penny they own to have the privelege of living there, but as the late great singer/song writer jim croce once said "new york's not my home". and that's perfectly cool becuase it physically can't be home for all 6 billion of us anyway.

Steely; try the Rum Zacapa....enjoy it there in Chi town. It's a heck of a city there too. My cousin lives there and it's great!

[Jularc]

NYC sometimes feels like a bunch of cities that are right next to eachother to make a super city. It kind of feels like each borough is more like a city on its own right. Many people that live in the other boroughs don't usually come to Manhattan for everything. Maybe is just me. But that is how I sometimes look at it. At least all those boroughs seems to have a good public transportation. That is very important and a very good asset. If I ever move out of Manhattan I think I will probably look in Brooklyn or Queens before looking elsewhere in the country. Maybe even in the Bronx. Who knows.

[JEH-NYC]

I have lived in all manner of situations, but now have my own place with plenty of room, etc. Granted, I owned a place prior. But, I think patience and a long-term view is key here, not just the current rental rate when one is very young or wanting it all now. Some may scoff at my simple comment, and I fully realize this is not an immediate option for most, but with some experience "under my belt" (and such actually in NYC, not from afar) I have seen the same thing (people ultimately owning their own place - and not a midget's studio) happen over and over again among friends and coworkers.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I pay $950 in a great Brooklyn neighborhood and I don't own a car. I think I save money living in NYC.

How would I save money and maintain my lifestyle if I moved to another city? There is no American city as transit-oriented as NYC. In every other city I would be losing some measure of quality of life by choosing to remain car-free.

In addition to choosing between a car and less mobility, I wouldn't save much in rent. What walkable, older American city with good jobs has super-cheap rent? In Chicago I could save a few hundred a month but not in an equivalent neighborhood. Same with Philly, where outside of Center City (which isn't all that cheap) there are no Brooklyn-type neighborhoods.

Super cheap rent is not at the top of my list. I'm not moving to Terre Haute.

Brooklyn is great, and definitely where I'd end up were I to move to NYC. Though I disagree with your assessment that you can't find other "Brooklyn-like" neighborhoods in cities like Chi, Philly, Boston, SF, etc, though of course it depends which Brooklyn neighborhood of which you speak since there's a decent amount of variety.

I'm impressed at $950, that's not bad at all.

[pottebaum]

Yeah, 950 doesn't sound bad at all. Which neighborhood do you lived in, Crawford (if you don't mind)?