Paying the Rent in New York

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by Crawford

How is Chicago different from all older U.S. cities and comparable to Las Vegas and Miami? This makes no sense. Please use some sort of metric to make your assertion.

If you value an urban experience above other priorities, the "marginal immigrant Outer Borough neighborhood of New York" will offer a LOT more than "prime Chicago". Of course, most Americans (and even most New Yorkers and Chicagoans) are not making their locational decisions on desired level of urbanity.

Its more of a feeling than anything else. You just have to have know the City 10 years ago and compare it to where it is today. The level of high rise residentials that have gone up on the Lakefront is mind blowing and yes at a level and density not matched by other older cities.

Other than Miami and Las Vegas, no other American City would embrace the Chicago Spire for example. The City seems literally pumped for this building, in most older American cities the building would be unthinkable.

[fflint]

^Okay, guys, this thread isn't about Chicago. Let's try and keep this thread on topic.

[ginsan2]

Originally Posted by pico44

Thus, the people who should be weeded out, are weeded out.

It seems to me that the only people who are being weeded out of Manhattan (and increasingly, the other boroughs) are the working and middle class. That can't be healthy for a city. They're not college age kids who are willing to give up basic civilization to live on the top floor of an office building, but parents and the like.

[ctman987]

The middle and working class are New York City are finding in increasingly difficult to afford life in the city and not just in Manhattan anymore. Manhattan is becoming more and more of a place for the wealthy. A recent article showed that there are thousands of young children in Manhattan showing a huge increase in Manhattan families who are also wealthy. Take a stroll along the upper west side or upper east side or in SoHo and youll see these families.

Anyway wealth in New York City is being pushed farther and farther out as people who make decent salaries are still being pushed farther and farther out of well known Manhattan addresses which means genrification in many areas of the city. With the construction of the 2nd Ave subway line real estate will become very expensive in that area all the way up into East Harlem. Right now areas of Harlem are seeing brownstones selling for 3-4 million dollars and trendy restaurants and cheese shops are opening up in Washington Heights.

This being said there are great neighborhoods in the outer boroughs. The outer boroughs are not full of poor people and immigrants. There are great places to live for all types of people in all of the outer boroughs and you can still can get a great urban experience. Many of the streets and avenues in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn bustle with activity. People pack the streets the same way they do in Manhattan. And for $2.00 you can buy a metro card and hop on the subway to anywhere else in the city including Manhattan.

[DukeofWellington]

Originally Posted by ctman987

The middle and working class are New York City are finding in increasingly difficult to afford life in the city and not just in Manhattan anymore. Manhattan is becoming more and more of a place for the wealthy. A recent article showed that there are thousands of young children in Manhattan showing a huge increase in Manhattan families who are also wealthy. Take a stroll along the upper west side or upper east side or in SoHo and youll see these families.

Anyway wealth in New York City is being pushed farther and farther out as people who make decent salaries are still being pushed farther and farther out of well known Manhattan addresses which means genrification in many areas of the city. With the construction of the 2nd Ave subway line real estate will become very expensive in that area all the way up into East Harlem. Right now areas of Harlem are seeing brownstones selling for 3-4 million dollars and trendy restaurants and cheese shops are opening up in Washington Heights.

This being said there are great neighborhoods in the outer boroughs. The outer boroughs are not full of poor people and immigrants. There are great places to live for all types of people in all of the outer boroughs and you can still can get a great urban experience. Many of the streets and avenues in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn bustle with activity. People pack the streets the same way they do in Manhattan. And for $2.00 you can buy a metro card and hop on the subway to anywhere else in the city including Manhattan.

Bear in mind that about 60% of apartments in the city, including Manhattan, are rent regulated. Therefore, middle class people can and do live in Manhattan. They just can't afford to own.

[shovel_ready]

^ Though, the people living in all those rent-controlled units are mostly old timers who were lucky to get those places years ago. Manhattan can be affordable if you've been there for quite awhile, but for newcomers? Fuggedaboutit!!

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by DukeofWellington

Bear in mind that about 60% of apartments in the city, including Manhattan, are rent regulated. Therefore, middle class people can and do live in Manhattan. They just can't afford to own.

Do you know where you can get data on this? I think this seems awfully high.

Plus, many rent stabilized apartments rent below their "regulation" rate because the market rents are less than the maximum regulation rate.

[NewYorkYankee]

Originally Posted by ctman987

The middle and working class are New York City are finding in increasingly difficult to afford life in the city and not just in Manhattan anymore. Manhattan is becoming more and more of a place for the wealthy. A recent article showed that there are thousands of young children in Manhattan showing a huge increase in Manhattan families who are also wealthy. Take a stroll along the upper west side or upper east side or in SoHo and youll see these families.

Anyway wealth in New York City is being pushed farther and farther out as people who make decent salaries are still being pushed farther and farther out of well known Manhattan addresses which means genrification in many areas of the city. With the construction of the 2nd Ave subway line real estate will become very expensive in that area all the way up into East Harlem. Right now areas of Harlem are seeing brownstones selling for 3-4 million dollars and trendy restaurants and cheese shops are opening up in Washington Heights.

This being said there are great neighborhoods in the outer boroughs. The outer boroughs are not full of poor people and immigrants. There are great places to live for all types of people in all of the outer boroughs and you can still can get a great urban experience. Many of the streets and avenues in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn bustle with activity. People pack the streets the same way they do in Manhattan. And for $2.00 you can buy a metro card and hop on the subway to anywhere else in the city including Manhattan.

This next comment is probably going to draw fire, but whatever:



How much gentrification is really going on? I mean, NY is a big place, their can't be that many rich people. Am I simply that out of touch?

[DaleAvella]

Originally Posted by pico44

Manhattan is worth every single penny. I was fully aware that what I paid for my little one bedroom would have a afforded me three bedrooms with a view in some midwestern town, but the idea of actually leaving the center of it all just so I could have a little elbow room never once crossed my mind.

Good point, but in Chicago, we like to think of Milwaukee and Kansas City as Some Midwestern Town, not Chicago.

[fleonzo]

For all of you who argue that it isn't worth it you'll never understand until you experience living in NYC. I'm was born and raised in DC (MD subs) and moved to NYC 11 years ago and moving back NEVER crosses my mind anymore. I love it here for reasons you would only understand living here not just visiting! I always get, from friends and family who visit all the time, "I like to visit two or three days but I could never live here"....You only need 0.0001 % of the worlds population who can afford to live here and want to move here or have a second home (apt) here and you can get the supply/ demand issues in this article and price increases!

[skylife]

Originally Posted by fleonzo

For all of you who argue that it isn't worth it you'll never understand until you experience living in NYC.

No, I'm sure it's awesome...and I'm also sure for me it's not worth it, especially since I'm really considering buying a small condo. I'm not a gazillionaire, so NYC is basically out.

[Chicago103]

It looks like some people really took the office building squatting idea I had to heart. Although my idea was more based on people who work in kick ass tall buildings like the Sears Tower on high floors and not just living in any old office as a desparate measure to save money and afford to live in the city. In Chicago that generally wouldnt make sense.

Also I find it odd that in New York City that landlords often require you make 40 times your monthly rent in annual income. I can gurantee you this isnt common practice in Chicago because if it was I would have been rejected at both places I have lived outside of college dorms, especially the Hancock. They do background checks on you and they have some standards, like if you were a single minimum wage worker with no other income or savings wanting to live in the Hancock but short of absurdities like that im under the impression they that unit owners and brokers will take anyone who wants to rent their units. Then again I have read articles about how people spend 50%or more of their income on rent in NYC so obviously they get around that somehow.

[pip]

grew up in Boston. Went to college in the midwest and haved lived in Madison and Milwaukee before I moved here. I was going to go back home to Boston several years ago just before I moved to Chicago. Flew out, stayed at my parents place and checked out rents. It is just too expensive, didn't want to live in some outer neighborhood or suburb, and eventually I would like to own a condo which again would be out of reach. The odds of me getting a well paying enough job to afford a condo in the center of the city is unlikely. It is all out of reach. I moved here by default. I didn't know were else to go and get all the big city things.

At some point you just don't want roomates in a tiny apartment anymore. So while it all may be fun for a while to live in NYC and the experience would be excellent eventually one tires of the the living conditions and you want more. Now if NYC was much more affordable than it is I would probably be there.

edit:

The only other city I can think of right now that would suit me is Philly. Philly offers everything I like at an affordable price.

[Chicago103]

Originally Posted by pip

At some point you just don't want roomates in a tiny apartment anymore. So while it all may be fun for a while to live in NYC and the experience would be excellent eventually one tires of the the living conditions and you want more.

Well I live in what some would consider a small (but not tiny) apartment with a roomate, sleeping loft aside it is still tecnically a studio. The difference is that I live at the top of an iconic skyscraper in Chicago, in NYC alot of people do this even in average or below average buildings and neighborhoods, living in a well know building is completly out of the question for people of modest means in NYC, renting or owning. So I live like a number of New Yorkers in this regard but I have alot more housing options at my disposal than they do, if space is not an issue and am willing to rent and not own a car I could afford to live in literally any neighborhood in Chicago in all kinds of different buildings and housing types.

Far be it from me to criticize people who are willing to sacrafice to live in Manhattan or anywhere in New York City but I am just pointing out that in Chicago the idea of college educated professionals having trouble finding some place to live in the city on their own is unheard of, some people make sacrafices to live in the most central of neighborhoods or in the best buildings but regardless of what anyone says finding some place to live in this city is easy.

[DC4life]

A lot of you people sound like haters. If you can't afford to do it then do hate on people who can.

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by NewYorkYankee

How much gentrification is really going on? I mean, NY is a big place, their can't be that many rich people. Am I simply that out of touch?

They're not all rich, per se, but just better off financially than the people that was there before them.

For instance, you make $50,000 a year and live in a tenement apartment paying $800/month rent.

When your lease is up, the landlord knows he has someone lined up that is willing to pay $1500/month.

You lose the apartment to that person.

That person is making $70,000/yr. He or she is not rich, but just makes more than you.

Multiply this many times over in a neighborhood and voilà, you've got higher rents and thus, gentrification.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by DC4life

A lot of you people sound like haters. If you can't afford to do it then do hate on people who can.

this is such a kids-today word.

[Chicago103]

Originally Posted by antinimby

They're not all rich, per se, but just better off financially than the people that was there before them.

For instance, you make $50,000 a year and live in a tenement apartment paying $800/month rent.

When your lease is up, the landlord knows he has someone lined up that is willing to pay $1500/month.

You lose the apartment to that person.

That person is making $70,000/yr. He or she is not rich, but just makes more than you.

Multiply this many times over in a neighborhood and voilà, you've got higher rents and thus, gentrification.

I dont think someone making $50K a year is forced to live in a $800 a month apartment, one could afford a $1500 a month under the right conditions, but I get the gist of what you are trying to say.

[antinimby]

Ignore those numbers. I just randomly picked them out of the air to make my point.

However with that said, $50,000 doesn't go very far in NY.

This is a very high-tax State and City so $50,000 in NY is probably equivalent to maybe $40,000 in another city.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by pip

grew up in Boston. Went to college in the midwest and haved lived in Madison and Milwaukee before I moved here. I was going to go back home to Boston several years ago just before I moved to Chicago. Flew out, stayed at my parents place and checked out rents. It is just too expensive, didn't want to live in some outer neighborhood or suburb, and eventually I would like to own a condo which again would be out of reach. The odds of me getting a well paying enough job to afford a condo in the center of the city is unlikely. It is all out of reach. I moved here by default. I didn't know were else to go and get all the big city things.

At some point you just don't want roomates in a tiny apartment anymore. So while it all may be fun for a while to live in NYC and the experience would be excellent eventually one tires of the the living conditions and you want more. Now if NYC was much more affordable than it is I would probably be there.

edit:

The only other city I can think of right now that would suit me is Philly. Philly offers everything I like at an affordable price.

IMO, Boston is a poor analogy.

If you can't afford Boston's center, you will be living in suburban areas, which aren't at all comparable to downtown Chicago.

If you can't afford NYC's center, you will be living in the Outer Boroughs, which are denser, busier and more urban than anywhere else in the U.S. (save Manhattan).

It's like saying I can't afford Lake Shore Drive, so I'm moving to Denver, because there's no way I'm living in Lakeview. Nonsensical.