Paying the Rent in New York

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's silly to say "why live in manhattan when i could just live in chicago for so much cheaper?". i could just as easily turn around and say "why live in chicago when i could just live in milwaukee for so much cheaper?".

I don't think its silly at all, as long as you condition on what amenities you still require out of where you live. I mean each person will come to their own choice by weighing this; if straight up cost-of-living is the end all, you wind up far out in the burbs of a sunbelt city. But for urbanites, Chicago makes alot of sense. And part of it is sort of this resentment at the fact that NYC, especially Manhattan gets this cliche of being the only place to be. Yes, it's incredible and breathtaking, but.....

[Steely Dan]

^ of course chicago makes a lot of sense for urbanites, but so do a lot of other cities.

look, everything is relative. my folks' friends who live up in marquette, MI were absolutely astounded that i paid $165,000 for a tiny 500 sq. ft. studio in downtown chicago. in their world, 165,000 buys a nice large 4 bedroom home; they couldn't fathom why someone would spend so much money on such a tiny home. but to me, it's worth it, it makes sense to me.

at the same time, my cozy little studio would probably go for half a million in the heart of manhattan. that's absolutely ridiculous to me, but for the new yorkers who live in those half million dollar studio condos, it's worth it, it makes sense to them.

as i've said from the very beginning (and really my only point in all of this), there are reasons manhattan is more expensive than chicago, and one of the big ones is that to those who live on manhattan, the differences, perceived and/or real, between the two cities are significant enough to warrant the extreme cost. (limited geography is also a big player, to be sure).

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that's only in your opinion. for you it's not worth it, but the millions of people clamoring to live on manhattan would probably disagree with you to a person. there is a reason chicago is so much cheaper than manhattan: it's seen as less desirable and it isn't constrained by the geographical "hard edges" of being located on a relatively small island.

manhattan is expensive becuase it's the place to live and those millions clamoring to live there often do so with delusional and unrealistic expectations. dare i say hype? i guess that hype does add to new york's energy and allure however, there really isn't much one is missing out by living in chicago.

[fflint]

^For you. You do not and cannot speak for everyone.

Not every city, or neighborhood within a given city, is equally appealing to every person. Not one of us can objectively speak for all of us as to whether the cost of some thing or place is "worth it." That is a matter of personal taste and opinion.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by fflint

^For you. You do not and cannot speak for everyone.

actually i can. i am that important.

Originally Posted by fflint

Not every city, or neighborhood within a given city, is equally appealing to every person. Not one of us can objectively speak for all of us as to whether the cost of some thing or place is "worth it." That is a matter of personal taste and opinion.

this is true.

[ginsan2]

I have so much family in Manhattan and the Bronx. I was just there this past Jan/Feb, and what they pay in rent/food/clothing in one month's time would be enough to literally make my car payment for a year.

New York is definitely a scene I can understand (and, being incredibly high maintenance, imagine myself taking advantage of), but it's just so unbelievably expensive. How do you justify not even having basic privacy, just to live someplace? How can you really feel good about being a 29 year old student living at the top of an office building, sleeping on a cot, and having twenty other people count how many times you use the restroom at night?

EDIT:
A friend and I are thinking of splitting the bill for a two bed, two bath condo in east Dearborn or possibly Grosse Pointe/Harper Woods-- the "high end" came to, like, $550.

[Mr Roboto]

Originally Posted by JMancuso

manhattan is expensive becuase it's the place to live and those millions clamoring to live there often do so with delusional and unrealistic expectations. dare i say hype? i guess that hype does add to new york's energy and allure however, there really isn't much one is missing out by living in chicago.

I agree about some of the hype (and your last statement too). I think that there are tons of people who move to NYC just to say "Man, I live in NYC", or even better "I live in Manhattan, dude!" (ie "Im the shit!".) It is a lot of hype, im not to say it isn't all unwarranted though. But, a lot of people are that superficial they'd pay the extra money just to say that. Which may be silly to many of us, but not them, since obviously they're willing to live in discomfort to do it.

Anyways, it is amazing for a city to have that kind of appeal. But a lot of it has to do with being on the east coast, and being the king shit surrounded by many metro areas of 5million+, and drawing heavily from those areas like a mecca. Kinda like SF or LA on the west coast. Meanwhile, Chicago is the undisputed leader of (ahem) the midwest......big difference, apparently.

[fflint]

Not every American gives a rat's ass about living in any particular place. Expansive private interior space and lots of free parking at home and at the mall appeal much more to the average American than any town or city's unique sense of place does.

But there is a minority--a sizeable minority--of Americans who care about the communities in which they respectively live. Some care about such things all their lives, others for only part of their lives. Others still prefer one community at one point in their lives, and then another later on. Some prefer a particular hometown; others a particular small town, or college town. And still others prefer a particular big city. To all such persons, the assets of one particular place make it more desirable than the rest. These persons would not agree that any one place is necessarily as desirable as any other: thus, to assert that one place is necessarily, objectively as desirable and 'valuable' as any other is to ignore the full spectrum of Americans' feelings about where they live. I am a person who cares about where, exactly, I live. I do not agree with the one-size-fits-all approach to the value and desirability of where I live. So, apparently, are those who intentionally put in the extra effort and expense of moving into Manhattan.

[Jularc]

Seems like alot of people will like to live in NYC (the surroundings) and California... Two expensive choices.


California and New York City Remain Most Popular Places People Would Choose to Live


The Harris Poll® #70, September 6, 2006

California, Hawaii, and Florida remain the most popular states that U.S. adults would choose to live in if they could live in any state outside of their own, according to a new Harris Poll. Last year, these states were also ranked as the "Top 3" though in a slightly different order: Hawaii has moved to #2 and Florida has dropped to #3. When it comes to Americans’ choices for cities outside of their own, New York City comes in #1 for the seventh consecutive time as the U.S. city people would choose to live in or near.

These are some of the results of The Harris Poll®, a nationwide survey of 3,685 adults conducted online between August 8 and 17, 2006 by Harris Interactive®.

The next most popular states in which people would like to live are: North Carolina (#4, moving up substantially from last year’s #8); Texas (#5, also moving up from #8); Washington (#6, moving up from #11); Colorado (#7, dropping from #4); New York (#8, dropping from #5); Arizona (#9, dropping from #6); and Oregon (#10, dropping from #7).

One interesting thing to note is that seven of the 15 states are in the West and six of them are in the South. The only states outside of these areas are representatives of the mid-Atlantic region: New York, and Pennsylvania (which makes the list for the first time since these data have been collected). There are no states from the Midwest or Northeast in the top 15.


Favorite U.S. cities to live in


Following New York City’s lead as a top U.S. city people would choose to live in or near, the next four cities are all in the West: San Francisco (#2, moving up from #4); San Diego (#3, dropping from #2); Seattle (#4, moving up from #5); and Las Vegas (#5, dropping from #3). Other cities in the top 10 include Honolulu (#6), Denver (#7), Atlanta (#7), Chicago (#9) and Boston (#10).

Returning to the list of the 15 top cities this year are Orlando at #14 and Austin at #15. Interestingly, while Florida is the third most popular state, the only city in Florida that makes the top 15 list is Orlando.


http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=697

[skylife]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's silly to say "why live in manhattan when i could just live in chicago for so much cheaper

I don't think it's silly at all. I think it's either common sense or a very wise decision. At this point, I almost feel like why would I move to NY when Chicago is right over there?

Why is it silly to have an awesome city life for half the price?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by skylife

I don't think it's silly at all. I think it's either common sense or a very wise decision. At this point, I almost feel like why would I move to NY when Chicago is right over there?

Why is it silly to have an awesome city life for half the price?

it's silly because chicago does not equal new york. it's kinda like saying why should i eat a steak when i can get a hot dog for a fraction of the price? they're both incredibly delicious, but they're two entirely different foods. if you like what chicago offers at the price point it's at, then by all means move here, it's a fantastic city in my opinion, but it's not a NYC substitute, chicago is a different animal altogether. sure, it has some of the same trappings as manhattan being a big old city and all, but it is not a manhattan parallel.

[brian_b]

NYC and SF have a lot of demand for living in certain areas. Normally that would trigger a residential building boom to satisfy the demand. That doesn't happen in NYC and SF, so rents climb higher.

If you care to live there so much that you are willing to pay anything, don't complain that it's too expensive. That's why it's so expensive.

[skylife]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's silly because chicago does not equal new york. it's kinda like saying why should i eat a steak when i can get a hot dog for a fraction of the price? they're both incredibly delicious, but they're two entirely different foods. if you like what chicago offers at the price point it's at, then by all means move here, it's a fantastic city in my opinion, but it's not a NYC substitute, chicago is a different animal altogether. sure, it has some of the same trappings as manhattan being a big old city and all, but it is not a manhattan parallel.

I don't think Chicago equals New York. I know it's totally different. It seems like a better option to me right now, which in my mind, makes it BETTER than New York.

I don't like the Chicago complex, though. It's already annoying me. We're so great...oh, well, we're not New York. I don't care that you're not New York! I can live in a great American city and I might be able to afford it. I'll be a Chicagoan, not a not-New Yorker.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Jularc

Seems like alot of people will like to live in NYC (the surroundings) and California... Two expensive choices

that's why they are expensive.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by skylife

I don't like the Chicago complex, though. It's already annoying me. We're so great...oh, well, we're not New York. I don't care that you're not New York! I can live in a great American city and I might be able to afford it. I'll be a Chicagoan, not a not-New Yorker.

what complex are you talking about? i believe chicago is a better city than NYC as well. hell i believe that chicago is the best city in the damn universe, but i also recognize that other people have opinions that are different than mine, which is why i've said all along, people who put up with the expense of manhattan have their reasons for doing so. i might not understand those reasons, and it's also possible that those reasons are all in their heads, but who am i to say why anyone should live anywhere?

just move to chicago already, skylife. if you're looking for the cheapest best big american city, chicago far and away leads the pack in that nebulous category .

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's silly because chicago does not equal new york. it's kinda like saying why should i eat a steak when i can get a hot dog for a fraction of the price? they're both incredibly delicious, but they're two entirely different foods. if you like what chicago offers at the price point it's at, then by all means move here, it's a fantastic city in my opinion, but it's not a NYC substitute, chicago is a different animal altogether. sure, it has some of the same trappings as manhattan being a big old city and all, but it is not a manhattan parallel.

new york is new york and chicago is chicago and just becuase new york is bigger and more sought after doesn't make it superior. far more people will agree that new york is a great place to visit than it is to live.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by JMancuso

new york is new york and chicago is chicago and just becuase new york is bigger and more sought after doesn't make it superior.

i agree 100%. i never said otherwise.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i agree 100%. i never said otherwise.

however, new york style pizza > chicago style.

[Steely Dan]

comparing NY style pizza to chi-style pizza is like comparing a hot dog to a hamburger, they both got some kind of meat thing going on that also involves some degree of bun, but beyond that they are COMPLETELY different food items. both are incredibly delicious.

same thing for the pizzas. they both got some kind of a crust thing going on that also involves some degree of melted cheese, but beyond that they are COMPLETELY different food items. both are incredibly delicious.

same thing for the two cities themselves. they both got some kind of an urban thing going on that also involves some degree of skyscrapers, but beyond that they are COMPLETELY different cities. both are incredibly wonderful.

[JManc]

they are both good but chicago style is just very heavy.

anyway, i have been dying to come up and check out chicago. never been there and it is next on my must see list.