LAS VEGAS | Boom Project Rundown! 2.0 - Page 100

PolyArch · #**1981** Posted **Apr 12, 2007, 9:40 PM**

Reply to PuyO and anyone else that thinks the same way:

The above illustration was only a design exercise on how to update an existing drab, plain, dated building. It was only for fun. Ideally and I think we can all agree the best thing Harrahs can do is implode all their adjacent holdings and replace it with a brand new mega project but some how that seems unlikely. Harrahs would lose all Vegas revenue for a couple of years while MGM has many money making hotel/casinos open while they build their City Center Project.

Silas · #**1982** Posted **Apr 12, 2007, 10:16 PM**

Since I am busy not posting fun pictures but instead throwing out my mastermind plans for the casino operators, I'll comment on the Flamingo pics/Harrah's properties:

1) The pic/design of Flamingo looks atrocious.
2) Harrah's didn't spend $30 mil/acre to make Bill's a non-revenue plaza.
3) Harrah's will most likely re-develop their properties one at a time. First IP (for example) then later Flamingo, then later Bally's.

The most interesting part of Harrah's to me is not the existing properties but instead the vast amount of land behind their hotels, including the recently purchased land behind the Aladdin hotel. This did not come cheap, so they must have some plan for it.

One idea I have thought of is a vast office complex that would sit in those now empty acres behind the properties. The hotel/condo scene is getting saturated. That land would then not compete against existing Harrah's properties but would instead augment their revenue stream. My vision is for Harrah's to build large office buildings behind Bally's, Paris and Aladdin (they own all that vacant land). These office buildings would be leased by companies that want a high-profile location for their business. These business would serve the existing LV business community as well as the gaming/tourist businesses. (I don't really know exactly which companies would lease the buildings).

The parcels are already connected via monorail directly to the LV convention center and will (?) soon be connected to airport. The office workers would be a steady flow of customers for Paris/Bally'ys (new?), etc.

Anyway, it is an idea. Would it work?

gmcclenon · #**1983** Posted **Apr 12, 2007, 10:25 PM**

The north end has heated up very quickly. As Philip brought up - the strip is geographically bound on both ends: Las Vegas City limits to the north and the airport to the south. No towers allowed past Mandalay for several thousand feet along LV Blvd due to the runway approach. That leaves just a single 3.5-mile strip to EVER be developed. Everyone thought Wynn was nuts to put his place at the extreme north end and he proved them wrong. Now we'll have foot traffic going to Echelon. Then to Fontainebleau which I believe is going to be much more impressive than anyone realizes. Hence their stealth mode. Like mdiederi said - it would at least protect their RV Park investment.

Ok, it's just a rumor - I'll shut up now. I know this is semi-OT. Just trying to pump up the north strip. I really do think the Fontainebleau will come out of left field and blow people away.

mdiederi · #**1984** Posted **Apr 12, 2007, 11:00 PM**

Here's a fantasy proposal for a building on the Barbary Coast site designed by Daniel J. Chenin (student) that won a citation in the NEVADA AIA Design Awards 2004 Unbuilt Category.

JonVegas · #**1985** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 3:53 AM**

Has anyone else noticed the glass going up on City Center. It looks gorgeous.

BruceH · #**1986** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

This may be way too cynical - but it could be that this is MGM's strategy:

Lock up the parcel across from Sahara. Land bank it, and with the Circus-Circus as it is, ensure that the entire area is a lower end, 'nothing-to-see-there' part of the strip dominated by dark, empty condos and Circus-Circus. A couple of places like Fontainbleu (if ever built) would be isolated from the real action.

Why would they possibley consider doing this?

To endsure that the luxury migration to the North end of the strip never happens, and that the action all remains where it is -- namely around CityCenter/Harmon and in fact, where MGM dominates the turf.

Does MGM have this kind of vision?

Why would you say if Fontainebleau ever gets built when it's already under construction? Second, don't discount MGM Mirage's future direction for Circus Circus. They want North Strip to be strong too as not much to show there at the moment.

BruceH · #**1987** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 5:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip

Regarding VTNT's rumor:
I don't see how buying that land across from Sahara and combining it with Circus Circus can give MGM any strategic advantage in building a new resort when you have all these small hotels/casinos stuck in the middle and taking up half of the strip frontage. The day the North End of the Strip is to get the same level of activities which the south/central Strip now enjoys is at least 10-15 years away. The market and the environment/ servicescape is simply not there. The potential of expanding north is further detrimented by the fact that the area north of Sahara Ave is residential neighborhood with NIMBYs. So you won't get the same kind of synergy center strip has.

The only strategic advantage they can get from buying this land is NOT to develop it for the short-term as Silas suggested. And if you look at MGM Mirage's plans for the future (page 10: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...Citigroup.pdf), they still have lots of vacant lands on the south end of the strip and at the back of Monte Carlo, NYNY where they "already" have development proposals for these area. And this is the place where MGM will focus on for the next 10 years.

The only thing MGM would do with that place across Sahara is to buy the land, let it sit empty for a few years, wait for the surrounding areas to develop. By the time that area gets more crowded and the land value is high that it will be a waste to let it sit empty, THEN MGM will develop it, just like the way they did it with the land CityCenter now sits on. However, even this scenario seems still very unlikely to happen given the fact that 1. Las Vegas Strip is no longer the gaming capital of the world, 2. Lots of opportunities and rapid expansion in Macau, 3. MGM wants to diversify into the non-gaming luxury hotel chains business with locations all around the world while partnering with Chinese and Abu Dhabi companies (contracts already signed), and 4. MGM's strong preference in developing large scale Master-planed community in Jean and Atlantic City.

In 15 years, MGM Mirage will become a much larger and a much different kind of corporation than it is today, the value proposition on that piece of land across Sahara pales in comparison to what MGM has in mind for its future. (expect that place to sit empty for another decade, whether MGM buys it or not.)

Consider the possibility that Maxim doesn't get built, that MGM buys the Travelodge, ABC property, Maxim property and the empty Sahara lot. Then consider they integrate the design to include Sky and the Hilton Vacation Club into their master plan. If well thought out could be a great master plan. Sky has residents along with Turnberry Place, Turnberry Towers and the future Palazzo Tower that will visit nearby restaurants and entertainment in addition to what's onsite. True also for Trump and Fontainebleau hotel condos. The number of condos now being purchased in that area is increasingly primary or high percent use secondary residents who want to live on the Strip and are tired of their high maintenance single family homes. 65% of the buyers contacting us now ask to see the high rise condos before seeing single family homes. The Strip is changing and MGM knows it - CityCenter is just one example.

jazfingr · #**1988** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:07 AM**

Great points, Bruce

I started to write a comeback, however you beat me to it. Maxim is probably a stale proposal and Fontainebleau is going to be sweet.

Regarding Aladdin, one of the biggest design flaws (besides the strip entrance, which is being fixed) is the distance one must walk from the parking garage to the casino. As illustrated below, taking the southern route through the mall (providing you get a good parking spot) is a .30 mile journey, before you hit casino carpet. Taking the northern route is .26 mile.

The issue is that they built the mall around the preforming arts center (which was saved when the blew up the original Aladdin). This seems like something for which there is no solution, except demolishing the performing arts center.

Silas · #**1989** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 1:41 PM**

No offense (seriously) but you guys are salesmen, so your views are not 100% clear. I think that the scenarios that you lay out are possible - but tainted by rose-colored glasses to some extent. There is some value in keeping in mind both the rosiest possibilities and the most cynical as well. Especially in today's market. I remain skeptical of all the north-strip hype as Trump tries to sell his new condo tower.

I'll stop this mostly-off-topic-I-guess stuff. Love the photos from everybody on the board. Thanks again.

BruceH · #**1990** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 2:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas

No offense (seriously) but you guys are salesmen, so your views are not 100% clear. I think that the scenarios that you lay out are possible - but tainted by rose-colored glasses to some extent. There is some value in keeping in mind both the rosiest possibilities and the most cynical as well. Especially in today's market. I remain skeptical of all the north-strip hype as Trump tries to sell his new condo tower.

I'll stop this mostly-off-topic-I-guess stuff. Love the photos from everybody on the board. Thanks again.

Understand your perspective Silas. While the Circus Circus scenario is reaching, the fact North Strip is undergoing massive change is not. You won't recognize it 5 years from now and those who understand that perspective will do well by owning a piece of it. Years ago, the Desert Inn was thought to be in a part of the Strip that would never happen.

bobmcelligott · #**1991** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 6:51 PM**

I agree Bruce. With Trump, Wynn and soon to be Fontainebleu and Echelon Place coming online, the North strip will soon come into its own. That area had to develop sooner later. I don't think I'll regret buying at Trump. Any new news on Frontier?

mttbox · #**1992** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:05 PM**

[QUOTE=Any new news on Frontier?[/QUOTE]

I would love to hear what they'll do with Frontier, I just hope Montreux project falls and something much better and more high-end gets built there, because what they'll put on that site effect the value of Trump directly.
by the way, any one know how is the Trump selling now?

ScottG · #**1993** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:14 PM**

mr. vegasTAT whats teh deal on those fountainbleau renderings?????!!!!!!

i wonder why fountain is goin under the stealth mode. not even a ground breakin...whats teh deal?

btw, that picture above of the aladdin painted blue made me laugh i forgot our terrible that looked

BruceH · #**1994** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobmcelligott

I agree Bruce. With Trump, Wynn and soon to be Fontainebleu and Echelon Place coming online, the North strip will soon come into its own. That area had to develop sooner later. I don't think I'll regret buying at Trump. Any new news on Frontier?

It's very stealth regarding the Frontier. I think Ruffin is clearly playing a high stakes poker game here and he has a great location for which to bet a winning outcome.

ScottG · #**1995** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:23 PM**

bad news: imperial palace might stick around for a while - same will bills (barbary coast)

imperial palace is trying to unionize its culinery staff proving some perminent (for the near future) changes

here are some interesting zone requests....city center to get bigger and taller! (a bit)

Permits and Zoning: Wynn Las Vegas, Fontainebleau, and City Center
April 12, 2007
From the agenda of Clark County planners, we have some insight into future projects. Here goes:

City Center - Not much, just a slight increase in the height of the towers from 543 feet to 580 feet. The FAA signed off and MGM is stating that they need the space for stuff like elevators and if residents want to put stuff on the roof (I assume satellite dishes, etc...). Also, the retail component is being increased from 650,000 square feet to 666,870 square feet. One interesting note is that Bellagio's holding company, Bellagio LLC, is the applicant - surely they have new holding companies for City Center - I would assume at least one per development for legal and financial reasons.

Fontainebleau - Some details on the project, which is in review. The tower will be 735 feet high with 2,880 hotel rooms and 1,020 condos with kitchens. The tower sites on a low-rise podium with heights that vary from 81 feet (LVB side) to 175 feet on the convention center side on the back. Other than that, the details are few. They do have a batch plant on site at this time.

Big Elvis Gets Bigger at Bill's Gamblin Hall and Saloon

One of BC/Bill's prime assets - lounger Pete "Big Elvis" Vallee - is staying put. In addition to Big Elvis adding a Friday show, we received word today from Big Elvis' manager that Big E has signed a contract with Bill's that goes through 2008.

This also means that Harrah's has no plans to close or gut the place in the near future (probably).

BruceH · #**1996** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mttbox

I would love to hear what they'll do with Frontier, I just hope Montreux project falls and something much better and more high-end gets built there, because what they'll put on that site effect the value of Trump directly.
by the way, any one know how is the Trump selling now?

Trump Las Vegas Tower 2 is selling and doing better than many thought would occur. Buyers are re-entering the market now as the phone is ringing a lot for Strip properties. Las Vegas Blvd is the only address they want or right against it.

mdiederi · #**1997** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 9:33 PM**

Speculating on the MGM north Strip rumors, maybe they will take the money from the Primm sale and buy the land on the Sahara corner and develop their new hotel brand there with Mubadala. The Mubadala joint venture states that they want to build hotels in Vegas and Abu Dhabi first before building in other regions, and I think they would need land with strip frontage to launch that new brand properly. That corner is the last empty lot left that's up for sale and it connects to existing MGM property.

gmcclenon · #**1998** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 11:04 PM**

And given that Mubadala is a wholly owned subsidiary of the government of the UAE, MGM would have to come up with NO money in this partnership. And it's non-gaming. So the north strip would be the perfect place for MGM to put PCC II. One can always hope.

jazfingr · #**1999** Posted **Apr 13, 2007, 11:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottG

mr. vegasTAT whats the deal on those fountainbleau renderings?????!!!!!!

i wonder why fountain is goin under the stealth mode. not even a ground breakin...whats teh deal?

Remember, Palms Place groundbreaking was announced when they were already up to three floors

The rendering I have of Fon-taine-bleau (come on folks...spell it right) look kind of ordinary to me. It's obviously a first rendering. Just take the shape from the LVTower renderings and put 'bleau' glass on it. The center segment of the tower will have long, divided balconies on all floors. The top of the podium is the pool deck with terraced suites rising on the east side which coincides with the agenda of Clark County planners which states 175'.

OK, OK, here's a crop from the rend. I enhanced it so you can see the balconies.

ScottG · #**2000** Posted **Apr 14, 2007, 12:18 AM**

i spell fontaine bleaue different each time....ha

btw i have a question / long finding.... the mirage (which had a death by an elevator woker today - a man fell 5 floors down a shoot today doin maintance)

but anyway the mirage is either accidently designed with an elevator shaft or fire stairs after the final design.....on the back side of the right wing (when looking at the fornt) has some shaft going form bottom to top inturupting the design. im assuming this is a fire escape - its quite wide, but definitly an onomily in the design. NO OTHER y-shape (or x-shape) hotel has this. so, being that mirage was the first, did they forget to add these fire stares or elevators?

(you wouldnt beleive how hard it was to find a picture of this)