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  #681  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 5:18 PM
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The Pac-10 teams have not been kind to the Insight Bowl (with the possible exception of 1 or 2 northwest teams).

Midwest, Mountain, and East Coast teams (especially teams in a bowl for the 1st time in a while, like Rutgers) have fans who travel very well for the most part, and are dying for a reason to visit the valley.
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  #682  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by vertex View Post
Interesting, originally slated for 1.15m sq.ft., now it's ballooned up to over 3.6m!

Gross site area 27.38 acres
Building area 3,693,400 s.f. (9 total buildings)
Res. Density 54 dwelling units per acre
Lot Coverage 63%
Building Height 310 feet (maximum)
Landscape area N/A
Vehicle Parking 5,816 spaces provided
Parking Analysis 5,110 spaces required
Tandem Parking 390 spaces (included in total provided)
Compact Stalls 72 spaces (Parcel 2, not included in total provided)
Parcel 1: Residential (105), Office, Retail, & Restaurant
Rural Rd.
Rio Salado Pkwy.
Parcel 2: Residential (384), Retail, & Restaurant
Parcel 3: Residential (302), Retail, & Restaurant
Parcel 4a: Hotel (285), Conference, Spa, Retail, & Restaurant
Parcel 4b: Residential (79)


Over 5,000 parking spaces? Please don't build another garage-mahal. Try going underground, people...
You can put parking a lot of places ... for example, there are a few streets cutting through the development, public, and it looks like it would allow for parallel parking (which also somewhat contributes to an active storefront).

It seems most of the parking is in garages a couple levels under, a few over, with big courtyards and stuff on top nestled between the towers and wrapped with residential and retail.

Does anybody know if the development team is "real?" I was going through the site plans and it looks like an especially expensive project.

Thanks sundevilgrad for posting the link!
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  #683  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 7:44 PM
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Does anybody know if the development team is "real?" I was going through the site plans and it looks like an especially expensive project.
I haven't heard anything about the Development Team outside of the major media outlets. Maybe Andrew has some insight....

As for the PAC10/Insight Bowl thing... Yeah, good ol Hansen f-d that one up, just like he does everything else. However, the schools from the Big12 and Big10 traditionally travel better than Pac10 schools. So, from an economic standpoint, relating to hotel rooms in Tempe, the new conference affiliations will probably add up to more rooms and dollars than the old allignment.
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  #684  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Vandercook View Post
Renaissance Two, Bank Of America, Wells Fargo, Phelps Dodge.... need me to continue?
Forgot about Two Renaissance. I was talking about fully underground lots. I'm aware of the 1/2 in 1/2 out guys...
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  #685  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 8:40 PM
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^ It's way off-topic now.
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  #686  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Forgot about Two Renaissance. I was talking about fully underground lots. I'm aware of the 1/2 in 1/2 out guys...
those are all underground.

Qwest at central and thomas. The Executive Center at 7th and mcdowell, Regency House, Tapestry, Phoenix Towers...

again, want me to continue?
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  #687  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2007, 11:49 PM
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I think a big reason Pac10 schools maybe didn't travel as well is because of Hansens blunders in handling the bowls for the Pac10. In EVERY Pac10 affiliated bowl game, the Pac10 team is playing a 'lesser' (lower record/lower finish in their conference) team (other than the Rose Bowl). Every Pac10 bowl game is a trap game, if they win, they are supposed to, if they lose, they stink. So I think its hard for Pac10 teams to get amped up for some of their bowls, though perhaps thats a weak excuse. Also, if the Insight.Com bowl EVER wants to raise its status, they need to change their name. It just sounds like a joke. They ought to revert to the Copper Bowl, heck call it the 'Insight.Com Copper Bowl' if you want, but the way its named right now, it just sounds really 3rd rate.

/end football rant
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  #688  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2007, 2:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
I think a big reason Pac10 schools maybe didn't travel as well is because of Hansens blunders in handling the bowls for the Pac10. In EVERY Pac10 affiliated bowl game, the Pac10 team is playing a 'lesser' (lower record/lower finish in their conference) team (other than the Rose Bowl). Every Pac10 bowl game is a trap game, if they win, they are supposed to, if they lose, they stink. So I think its hard for Pac10 teams to get amped up for some of their bowls, though perhaps thats a weak excuse. Also, if the Insight.Com bowl EVER wants to raise its status, they need to change their name. It just sounds like a joke. They ought to revert to the Copper Bowl, heck call it the 'Insight.Com Copper Bowl' if you want, but the way its named right now, it just sounds really 3rd rate.

/end football rant
Name doesn't matter. If they want cache, they need to increase their payout and get it as close, if not actually ON, New Years Day. Look at the Holiday bowl. Thats about the head of the class of the 2nd tier bowls, has a good payout, and ALWAYS gets a good matchup and heavily attended. The Insight people need to adopt their model. Its only a matter of time before the holiday bowl is either a BCS bowl, or a CFB playoff site.
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  #689  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 5:06 PM
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Here's an article about Centerpoint from this morning's East Valley Tribune.

Tallest Tempe building still rising
Garin Groff, Tribune

A new condo tower has become Tempe’s tallest building — and it’s not even finished yet. The Centerpoint Condominiums building has reached 17 stories and is growing one level every week. That means workers will top off the 22-story tower in about five weeks. Then they’ll set a new city record with a 30-story tower next door. That should top out at year’s end.

The latest addition to the downtown skyline has gone up with little fanfare after some initial complaints that the project was too tall.

Project developer Ken Losch said he could understand some objections from Arizona natives who were used to houses on big lots with pools. But Losch, a principal in Avenue Communities who lived in major Canadian cities, said more and more people from other big cities are demanding the types of high-rises popping up across the Valley.

“Remember, half the people who live here are from urban centers and we’re really dying for urban experiences, and we don’t have it,” Losch said. “People are starving for it.”

They’re not just looking for something tall, he said. Rather, they want to walk to restaurants and offices and live near a transportation system like the Metro light-rail line.

Avenue Communities has 200 workers on site, busy 24 hours a day. Most of the building remains a concrete shell, but workers have installed framing, plumbing and even a few glass panels on the lower floors. Residents should be able to move in this spring. About 100 potential buyers are on a waiting list and the company is just starting to write contracts for some units, Losch said. The condos range from 400 square feet to 8,000 square feet with selling prices ranging from $300,000 to $3 million.

The company plans to build two more 30-story towers on the site, perhaps starting them in 18 months.

The condos will eventually reach 370 feet, making them taller than Hayden Butte. Tempe has limited other downtown buildings to 300 feet, but even some elected officials think the city has given developers too much vertical leeway.

Councilman Ben Arredondo said he’s concerned about the towers blocking views and flooding the downtown with too many cars and people. “I don’t think we’ve done a real close analysis of the impact those buildings are going to have,” Arredondo said.

Arredondo grew up in Tempe and recalls running through downtown to play in Tempe Beach Park. He said he understands Tempe can’t stay the small town of his youth, but he said he doesn’t want it to become another Manhattan. “At what point do you become too dense for a small community?” he said.
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  #690  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 7:33 PM
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Sounds like Arredondo needs to pack his small town bags and head for Sun City.
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  #691  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHXRising View Post
Here's an article about Centerpoint from this morning's East Valley Tribune.

Tallest Tempe building still rising
Garin Groff, Tribune

Arredondo grew up in Tempe and recalls running through downtown to play in Tempe Beach Park. He said he understands Tempe can’t stay the small town of his youth, but he said he doesn’t want it to become another Manhattan. “At what point do you become too dense for a small community?” he said.
Small community??? Since when is a city of 180,000 with the largest university campus in the country that likely swells the daytime population by around 30,000- in the center of a metropolitan area of nearly 4 million a small community? Tempe is the most progressive city in the Valley and needs to encourage more urban development, or will likely lose out to the exurbs. Since the city is built out, it must densify in order to grow.

My biggest problem with Tempe is that even though it has ASU, it doesnt encourge high density. With ASU's plans for expansion of the entire school, but more importantly the residential population, how is Tempe going to accombidate new students? I transfered here from DePaul University (in Chicago) and have found myself completely tethered to campus. Since I do not have a car, there are very few places I can get to off campus for my daily retail and urban exploration needs.

In addition, housing prices in Tempe are completely unacceptable (considering the quality), and the only way I see of alieviating this problem is increasing supply. All of my freshman friends are priced out of the local market, and next year are buying or renting places farther away from campus. They will be contributing to the area's congestion, and ASU's parking problems next year. I find this sad since the area and school have so much potential to be a magnet for students and entertainment. By attracting students, the university can become more competitive and improve its reputation, which will have significant positive effects for the entire area by encouraging more research and innovative companies.

Personally I cannot tolerate the situation here in Tempe. I will be leaving back for New York because the quality of life here is so unacceptable. I don't want to live another year of my life in the dorms and there just aren't any other attractive living situations. Getting a car is out of the question, and walking considerable distances through a suburban environment is even less satisfactory for me. Not that I would be in the market for a luxury condominium, but if Tempe could offer me at least an isolated micro urban environment I would probably continue my education here.
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  #692  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sundevilgrad View Post
I haven't heard anything about the Development Team outside of the major media outlets. Maybe Andrew has some insight....
This location (College Ave. and Veterans' Way) is where I noticed the apparent Blue-staking taking place. For any who don't know, this means they're getting ready to do some excavation and need to know where power, gas, water and sewer, cable/communication, and any other lines are located so nothing gets nicked. It's pretty expensive when you take out a telephone line, though I don't know from personal experience. So they probably don't have an actual building permit yet since you don't need one to start digging a little.
Also, The Armory project -which as noted has changed its name - was originally advocated by none other than Grady Gammage, Jr's law firm. He presented the rezoning request to Council (or was it the DRB?) several months ago, although I'm not sure if he's still working on getting the entitlements for the project. Some trivia.
I've heard a little about this project from the Economic Development Dept. at Tempe, so not exactly 100% more reliable than mainstream media, but it's a different source anyway. We'll see what happens...
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  #693  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 5:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dbrenna5 View Post
Small community??? Since when is a city of 180,000 with the largest university campus in the country that likely swells the daytime population by around 30,000- in the center of a metropolitan area of nearly 4 million a small community? Tempe is the most progressive city in the Valley and needs to encourage more urban development, or will likely lose out to the exurbs. Since the city is built out, it must densify in order to grow.

My biggest problem with Tempe is that even though it has ASU, it doesnt encourge high density. With ASU's plans for expansion of the entire school, but more importantly the residential population, how is Tempe going to accombidate new students? I transfered here from DePaul University (in Chicago) and have found myself completely tethered to campus. Since I do not have a car, there are very few places I can get to off campus for my daily retail and urban exploration needs.

In addition, housing prices in Tempe are completely unacceptable (considering the quality), and the only way I see of alieviating this problem is increasing supply. All of my freshman friends are priced out of the local market, and next year are buying or renting places farther away from campus. They will be contributing to the area's congestion, and ASU's parking problems next year. I find this sad since the area and school have so much potential to be a magnet for students and entertainment. By attracting students, the university can become more competitive and improve its reputation, which will have significant positive effects for the entire area by encouraging more research and innovative companies.

Personally I cannot tolerate the situation here in Tempe. I will be leaving back for New York because the quality of life here is so unacceptable. I don't want to live another year of my life in the dorms and there just aren't any other attractive living situations. Getting a car is out of the question, and walking considerable distances through a suburban environment is even less satisfactory for me. Not that I would be in the market for a luxury condominium, but if Tempe could offer me at least an isolated micro urban environment I would probably continue my education here.
You can't find an apartment near campus?? I had no problem finding one. I'm sorry you're having issues with the cost of rent in Tempe.. perhaps it will be lower, then, when you move to NY?

Why not try living on one of the neighborhood flash lines?? They are very frequent and reliable - and starting next year will service neighborhoods all the way down to the 60. just a thought...
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  #694  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 2:27 PM
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dbrenna5, I'm not feeling your pain. There are many options for living in and around ASU. Apartments, condos and houses that are within walking distance, or like I used to do, riding distance. Go to Tempe bicycle and get yourself a beach cruiser. No more parking troubles. As JI5 pointed out, the neighborhood FLASH is a completely viable alternative as well.
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  #695  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 10:15 PM
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I noticed that The Mosaic now has a portable construction office on their site and it looked like they may begining some preliminary work.
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  #696  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2007, 3:17 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewkfromaz View Post
Also, The Armory project -which as noted has changed its name - was originally advocated by none other than Grady Gammage, Jr's law firm. He presented the rezoning request to Council (or was it the DRB?) several months ago, although I'm not sure if he's still working on getting the entitlements for the project. Some trivia.
He was actually part of a partnership that owned the property and proposed the original plan for The Armory. He built and owns the building across the street to the west. However, as the concept for the project grew, he realized it had become too big for him and sold his interest in the project.
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  #697  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2007, 2:48 PM
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From this morning's East Valley Tribune:

Pier 202 will include condos, hotel on Tempe Town Lake
Misty Williams, Tribune

Construction of a $1 billion mixed-use development on Tempe Town Lake, including nearly 1,500 condominiums and a 4 ½-star hotel, could begin as early as fall of this year.

Sitting on 27 acres off the Rio Salado Parkway east of Rural Road, Pier 202 will boast nine buildings totaling nearly 3.7 million square feet of offices, condos and retail space.

The development's master plan is set to be considered by the city's Development Review Commission tonight.

"The project will set the bar for development in the Valley", said Brad Gorman, one of three partners developing the site.

"We've got the best of the best in the business", Gorman said. "I think the city is going to be totally blown away."

Pier 202 will include a hotel with 285 rooms, a spa, conference center, restaurant and retail space, said Gorman, who is president of Irvine, Calif.-based Laguna Pacific Properties.

Its condominiums will range in size from roughly 850 square feet to penthouses exceeding more than 3,000 square feet, he said.

Construction on the site's infrastructure could start in November with the office buildings starting to go up in spring 2008, Gorman said. Residential units could follow in the summer of next year.

The site will also likely include four to six major restaurants and boutique shops.

"Our office, hotel and retail will go right away," he said.

Gorman said he's confident the housing market will pick up in 2008 and that demand for mixed-use developments will remain strong.

People want to work, eat, shop and gather all within walking distance of home, he said.

The developer has finalized heights for at least five of the nine buildings ranging from 10 stories to 23 stories, said Ryan Levesque, a senior planner with the city.

The Federal Aviation Administration approved the heights on March 9, Levesque said.

Pier 202 fits in with what the city was looking for, he said.

Last summer, the city sold the land for $42.5 million with requirements that the development include condos, a hotel, as well as office and retail space.

"We're providing a very unique and high quality development," Levesque said.

The project is set to go before the City Council on May 3 and May 17.

Last edited by JAHOPL; Apr 10, 2007 at 2:57 PM.
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  #698  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2007, 5:42 PM
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I wonder what the pricing will be on the Pier 202 condos? I think that the lake is a great investment. I like these articles...I would like to hear more about Pier 202...sounds like a HUGE project.
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  #699  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2007, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by FortyAcres View Post
if you think a traditional doormat from the midwest (read: nothing else to do) wouldn't out-travel USC you just don't know football. The only school that would out-travel KSU to the insight bowl would be UA, because, they too, suck ass and would sacrifice a Stoops child to sniff the postseason. USC in the insight bowl ... LOL ... there would be 10 fans from LA there ... all agents.
While I agree, I also do take exception to one thing... (read): nothing else to do).

The Big Ten traditionaly travels well, but it has more to do with having only one flagship university. Other than Michigan... Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Ohio State, Penn State and Iowa are flagships and basically 'the big school' in their state's respectively. Yes, Iowa has Iowa State... but its small enrollment number and relative location makes it second tier to most Iowegians. Indiana may be the flagship, but Purdue has almost as many hardcore fans. In all fairness, the only people who care about Northern Illinois, Southern Illinois and Northwestern are the folks who went there. Minnesota has an extensive D-II program (scholarships) and Wisconsin has the best D-III football programs (non-scholarship) top-to-bottom in the nation (according to the NCAA DIII.com website).

Hence the point, when you grew up in these areas, it's all you know. I went to UW-Madison and UW-La Crosse. As a point of emphasis, I've always been a Badger fan and Marquette was always second fiddle when it came to basketball, even though they've (Marquette) had more success come tournament time and a bigger market (Milwaukee) Heck, even UW-Milwaukee had better coverage when they were in the tournament with Bo and Bruce Pearl.

Compare it to the PacTen where you have four states and ten teams... with at least two flagship univerisities. Sorry to disagree somewhat, but it's my personal belief that we have a bit more pride and support in our schools and their athletic programs (I'm not saying all of you, just a general recognition). Other than the USC game, I could score ASU tickets for cheap (less than $20) with no problem in a stadium not full. I could not score Wisconsin-San Diego St. tickets in early September (when it was still 80 degrees) for less than $45 each in a place sold out for years that holds more.

I don't mean this to sound like a BigTen eleven flame of the PacTen, but during the winter, our attention (at Wisconsin and Minnesota (heated rivalry)at least) turns to WCHA hockey and basketball. Except for those in the northern part of the state where all they do is ride snowmobiles and icefish

So, the high travel numbers include a combination of many who want to get away from the midwest winter (mild at best the last 6 years) and the real die-hards. One other note I've discovered, I don't feel the student sections are as strong, other than USC or UCLA, as they are in the Big Ten eleven.
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  #700  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2007, 7:12 AM
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Good points, but I wouldn't over-analyze this. The main reason remains this; Big Ten fans want a reason to travel to a warm-weather site in a very different part of the country, and a bowl game is just the excuse they need.

Meanwhile Pac-10 fans can't use weather for an excuse to travel. And with regard to the Insight Bowl, when it was courting Pac-10 schools, a lot of those fans might have already traveled to Phoenix during the regular season for a road game.

Ask yourself this question; would Big-10 fans really travel to watch a 2nd-tier bowl game played in the state with a Big-10 school?

Last edited by vertex; Apr 11, 2007 at 7:22 AM.
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