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  #181  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 11:49 AM
SlatsGrobnik SlatsGrobnik is offline
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Isaac--I understand that in common parlance, supertall refers to buildings over 300m or 1,000', depending on where it's being built.

I think it would be fun to have a "Chicago Rumor Mill" thread for the projects that haven't been formally proposed. Anyone with some forum system expertise want to take a stab at it?
     
     
  #182  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SlataGrobnik View Post
Isaac--I understand that in common parlance, supertall refers to buildings over 300m or 1,000', depending on where it's being built.

I think it would be fun to have a "Chicago Rumor Mill" thread for the projects that haven't been formally proposed. Anyone with some forum system expertise want to take a stab at it?
I guess I should have said "quasi-super tall" What I had in mind was buildings that were 700+ feet, and that would get their own thread in the invididual buildings page.
     
     
  #183  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 2:21 PM
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Northwestern Memorial has decided on a long-term lease of 150,000 sq ft in Streeterville (Time-Life Building) for administrative operations, rather than moving them to the West Loop. Hooray for the growth of this institution.

But would it have been better for them to go to West Loop? Discuss.

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=24510
Interesting question. I would say West Loop, 150,000 could be enough for a developer to build a new 20-25 story office building. However, I wish more companies start to look at River North instead of West Loop. Im all for the CBD going further and further along Clark and LaSalle streets
     
     
  #184  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 2:52 PM
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I think it would be nice to keep track of all these supertall rumors. Sometimes I swear 10 are proposed, other times only 3.
     
     
  #185  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 3:25 PM
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Here's a story about a bunch of fucking cry babies. I'd like to hear what people on this forum think about it... I've highlighted some of "interesting" parts of the article.

http://www.nearwestgazette.com/Archive/0407/Newsstory0407e.htm
Ms. Plummer sounds funny. How in the world did they find people for this article? Did the author stand outside their homes/apts/condos and say, "Doesn't this noise bug the shit out of you?" Also, what do you think was going through the developers mind when he got the call about this article? I thought he gave some pretty good answers to some dumbass questions/problems.

Last edited by Monkey36; Apr 8, 2007 at 3:41 PM.
     
     
  #186  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 4:01 PM
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...the only supertalls if you'd like to call them that are Trump at 1300+ including spire & WV at 1050 or so ...the only other concrete proposal is the calatrava.......that is it period.
Actually, the Arquitectonica proposal Sir Isaac Newton mentioned at Wacker drive is a definite contender for the supertall cateogory, even by the above standards.

Based on all the info from different forumers we've had about it, I'd certainly say that it's a "concrete" proposal.
     
     
  #187  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 4:17 PM
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Actually, the Arquitectonica proposal Sir Isaac Newton mentioned at Wacker drive is a definite contender for the supertall cateogory, even by the above standards.

Based on all the info from different forumers we've had about it, I'd certainly say that it's a "concrete" proposal.
Sorry I'm confused again. I thought according to the LSE projection map that Arquitectonica (sic?) was situated immediately south of Aqua along Columbus and the other rumored LSE tall building was a coombination of two or three shorter buildings planned for Wacker next to Swiss. I now realize the other Columbus building I was referring to earlier was Carleys, which is north of the river, right?
     
     
  #188  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 4:43 PM
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainm...5apr08,1,1281972.story?coll=chi-news-hed

The danger of becoming skin deep
Chicago historic buildings become shells as new rules of preservation are letting city's history slip away

By Blair Kamin
Tribune architecture critic
Published April 8, 2007

Back in the 1960s, the pioneers of historic preservation faced stark choices as they battled to protect such renowned structures as New York's Pennsylvania Station or Louis Sullivan and Dankmar Adler's Garrick Theater building in Chicago: Either save the building or watch the wrecker's ball smash it to smithereens.

But today, developers and architects have devised a new way of holding onto the past that makes things far more complex: Instead of preserving an entire building, it keeps only the building's facade, grafting that facade onto a new internal structure, as though it were the skin of a stuffed animal.

Better to save something than nothing, goes this theory. And while it's true that such projects typically possess the human scale and eye-pleasing decoration rarely found in massive parking garages or bland condominium towers, they still rankle. The reason: They create a stage-set city that treats buildings like two-dimensional wallpaper, not three-dimensional structures. That destroys a building's essence and, at worst, makes a mockery of the very history these exercises purport to respect.

For a sample of the damage such architectural taxidermy can do, go to the corner of Halsted and Maxwell Streets, where the University of Illinois at Chicago has completed its redevelopment of the old Maxwell Street Market, the once-raucous bazaar where generations of peddlers hawked their wares along the sidewalk.

Historic facades are clipped onto the front of a new parking garage, complete with curtains and blinds in their upper-story windows to mask the cars behind them. With their medallions, fluted columns and ornamental brickwork, the facades, while beautifully restored, form a sanitized stage-set populated by saccharine, life-size sculptures, like one that portrays a peddler selling tomatoes. The old Maxwell Street Market was dirty, messy and suffused with a singular sense of place. It was not, like this facile tribute, clean, ordered and bordering on generic.

"When does [Chicago] cease to be known for broad shoulders, to be seen instead for its paper-thin facades? At what point will Chicago not be Chicago, but merely a commercially based parody of itself?" David Bahlman, president of the non-profit advocacy group Landmarks Illinois, asked at a sparsely attended March 29 hearing of the City Council's Committee on Historical Landmark Preservation.

At the hearing, aldermen unanimously approved the latest architectural skin job, a plan by Chicago-based Prism Development Co. to dismantle, demolish, repair and reconstruct the 11-story Farwell Building, a classical-art deco gem at 664 N. Michigan Ave., as part of a 40-story condominium development. The project seems assured of passage by the full City Council.

Ideally, historic buildings consist of bones (the structure that holds them up) and the interior spaces they shape as well as skin. Think of the Hotel Burnham at the corner of State and Washington Streets. There, in 1999, a team of architects gorgeously transformed the old Reliance Building into a boutique hotel while simultaneously enhancing every aspect of a revolutionary, late 19th Century design that predated by six decades the steel-and-glass modernism of Ludwig Mies van der Rohe.

With Chicago in a development boom that has put historic buildings in the path of new ones that generate property and sales tax dollars, however, it is becoming far more difficult to uphold the standard set by such exemplary examples of adaptive re-use.

"Now we're in this great gray zone of preservation. It's not fully saved. It's not fully lost," Jim Peters, Landmarks Illinois' director of planning, said in an interview. "I think that's the slippery slope we've gotten into."


'Facade-ectomy'

To be sure, shaving away everything but the facade of a building has been done before. In 1989, architects Moriyama & Teshima jammed a modern office building at 10 S. LaSalle St. with blue and lime green walls between the templelike base of the 1912 Otis Building by the legendary Chicago firm of Holabird & Roche. The resulting visual mismatch epitomizes the sins inflicted by this type of architectural surgery, which preservationists pejoratively refer to as a "facade-ectomy."

What's different today is that this selective saving of history is far more widespread -- not a last resort, but one that developers and architects turn to frequently. That much is evident on Wabash Avenue, a block behind the cliff of historic, masonry-covered buildings that face Millennium Park.

With the city having granted landmark protection to this cliff, developers have infiltrated Wabash to erect condo towers that seize upon the value the park has created. To make way for them, the parking garages that serve them, and the construction equipment that builds them, all but a sliver of several historic structures have been demolished. Some belonged to the Jewelers Row Historic District, an official city landmark district along Wabash that recognizes the rich history of Chicago's jewelry makers.

At 21 to 29 S. Wabash, for example, a massive steel scaffold holds in place a trio of five- to six-story facades that provide a tangible record of the construction boom that followed the Chicago Fire of 1871: one a Victorian, with huge keystones above its windows; another, neo-classical, with a triangular top and toothlike decoration; the last, a straightforward Chicago School grid of beige brick.

Someday, these facades will camouflage a parking garage that form the back side of the Legacy at Millennium Park, a glass wedge that will soar 72 stories high.But their present state reveals them for what they really are -- a slice of history that differs little from a slice of cheese.

The same ambiguity pervades the restored facades of four historic buildings that line the parking garage and street-level shops of the Heritage at Millennium Park, a 59-story condo tower that rises behind the Chicago Cultural Center at Michigan and Randolph. Two years old, it was designed by the firm responsible for the Legacy at Millennium Park, Chicago architects Solomon Cordwell Buenz, along with their historic preservation consultants at the Evanston firm of McGuire Igleski & Associates.

Walking on the east side of Wabash Avenue, it is hard not to be seduced by the facades, with their green urns, white sea horses and other ornamental grace notes. They perfectly match Wabash's human scale. It is only when you step to the west side of the street and gaze over the elevated tracks that you notice the facades are not real buildings but simply fronts for the parking garage.


A living museum

As much as preservationists denounce such compromises, however, the deals are unlikely to disappear. Too much money is at stake. Chicago has to adapt to new circumstances. The city is a living museum of architecture, not one frozen in time. The question is how to adapt: Are some partial preservation jobs better than others? Yes, it turns out.

At one end of the spectrum, the wrong end, is the Maxwell Street redevelopment, planned by Darien-based Wight & Co. with help from historic preservation consultants Hasbrouck Peterson Zimoch Sirirattumrong of Chicago. The facades papering the parking garage and new buildings across the street were taken off other buildings in the area, restored and reassembled. As handsome as they are, they make this a Maxwell Street that never was.

At the other end of the spectrum, the right end, is the redevelopment of Oliver Building, an official Chicago landmark that graces the city's burgeoning theater district. Located at 159 N. Dearborn St. and originally the headquarters of the Oliver Typewriter Co., the 1907 building was designed by the same firm, Holabird & Roche, that shaped the marred Otis Building at 10 S. LaSalle. Its facade clearly expresses its internal steel frame, a signature feature of the first Chicago School of Architecture. And that facade is adorned by classically-inspired, cast-iron decoration that quietly promotes the company's name and products.

But in the late 1990s, the Oliver stood in the way of the expansion of the Oriental Theatre (now the Ford Center for the Performing Arts), located just to the east at 24 E. Randolph St. To make way for an expanded backstage at the Oriental, Chicago architect Daniel P. Coffey designed a plan that gutted the Oliver but preserved one-third of its original steel structure, along with the building's Dearborn facade and part of its alley facade.

A perfect historic preservation solution? No. But it's far better than a "facade-ectomy."

In the tight quarters of downtown, of course, such a solution cannot be carried out everywhere. There simply isn't enough room. Which raises vexing questions: Would Chicago be better off by simply allowing developers to demolish landmark buildings, such as the Farwell Building, that will be skinned and rebuilt on a new internal structures? How much can you strip from a landmark building until it ceases to be a landmark?

There are no easy answers, but there is a need for standards that recognize the integrity of architecture as well as the necessity of economics. As it stands now, the rise of the "facade-ectomy" is producing beguiling but sliver thin vestiges of the past. They offer the comforting illusion that we're saving the style and the meaning of history when, in fact, we're destroying all but a fraction of it.

----------

[email protected]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well how else do preservationists propose to save these buildings when economic conditions spur projects of much greater density? I men this is the downtown core of the third largest metropolis in the U.S. not some town square...
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  #189  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by X-fib View Post
Sorry I'm confused again. I thought according to the LSE projection map that Arquitectonica (sic?) was situated immediately south of Aqua along Columbus and the other rumored LSE tall building was a coombination of two or three shorter buildings planned for Wacker next to Swiss. I now realize the other Columbus building I was referring to earlier was Carleys, which is north of the river, right?
NO. The Arqiutectonica Tower will be directly west of the Regatta and east of the Swiss'otel facing Wacker Drive and spanning Field Blvd. in the process. I don't believe this building will break 1,000' when measured from it's main entrance. It'll be close, but not quite. We've heard nothing about the tower that's to go in between Aqua and Blue Cross.
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  #190  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 7:00 PM
SlatsGrobnik SlatsGrobnik is offline
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NO. The Arqiutectonica Tower will be directly west of the Regatta and east of the Swiss'otel facing Wacker Drive and spanning Field Blvd. in the process. I don't believe this building will break 1,000' when measured from it's main entrance. It'll be close, but not quite.
You seem to know a fair amount about the project. Have you seen any renderings?
     
     
  #191  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 7:02 PM
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Actually, the Arquitectonica proposal Sir Isaac Newton mentioned at Wacker drive is a definite contender for the supertall cateogory, even by the above standards.

Based on all the info from different forumers we've had about it, I'd certainly say that it's a "concrete" proposal.

Can something be a "concrete proposal" if it hasn't even been publicly proposed?
     
     
  #192  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 8:02 PM
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Can something be a "concrete proposal" if it hasn't even been publicly proposed?
read.between.the.lines *cough*concrete*
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  #193  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2007, 11:17 PM
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You seem to know a fair amount about the project. Have you seen any renderings?
No I haven't, but I have insiders
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  #194  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 7:51 AM
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Thank you for posting that article, nicopico. I also fear the cost of progress. But I can't deny the reason I love this city is it's refusal to stop pushing forward.

To clarify, I mean that I believe the opinions as in the article regard some of the biggest concerns that city planners, and architects, should have. Personally, the trends above are very troubling to me. I don't want a castrated Daleyville or drabcondoburg. I want Chicago: a city with unique character and history, and hopefully an equally diverse and intriguing future. I believe this is Chicago first, and that Chicago is a city that moves forward swiftly and powerfully, but that it also has a very rich history that makes it what it is today. Thusly, the future cannot come at the expense of remembering, honoring, and continuing to regard that past that's made our city a shining pillar of urban wholeness. This truly is perhaps the most "complete" city in the world. The balance of our imbalances is fascinating.

Last edited by vxt22; Apr 9, 2007 at 8:49 AM.
     
     
  #195  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 9:12 AM
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This truly is perhaps the most "complete" city in the world. The balance of our imbalances is fascinating.
Well said vxt22. In a city with such a long and rich history, one must preserve the past, but I don't know that I exactly support this type of architectural amalgamation. I mean

Blech!
What the hell is that? Perhaps something that better incorporates the preserved fascade would be in order? The new should at least pay homage to, if not seem a continuation of, the old. It's like a bald man putting on a toupee.
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  #196  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 9:38 AM
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Well said vxt22. In a city with such a long and rich history, one must preserve the past, but I don't know that I exactly support this type of architectural amalgamation. I mean

Blech!
What the hell is that? Perhaps something that better incorporates the preserved fascade would be in order? The new should at least pay homage to, if not seem a continuation of, the old. It's like a bald man putting on a toupee.
Take that back! That is a great building, in fact like like the '86 tower alot more that than the '15 base. In fact it's the juxtaposition that makes the whole greater than either of it's parts.

SSDD
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  #197  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 12:15 PM
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^ Very impressive. I've never heard anything positive about that "renovation."
     
     
  #198  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 2:34 PM
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  #199  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 2:37 PM
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Milt Rosenberg, host of WGN Radio’s Extension 720, will host a two hour radio program on architectural preservation. Milt’s guests will include Tribune architecture critic Blair Kamin, architect Larry Booth, and Preservation Chicago president Jonathan Fine

PROGRAM DATE: MONDAY, APRIL 9, 2007

PROGRAM TIME: 9:00 TO 11:00 PM

WGN RADIO - 720 on the AM dial


PROGRAM FORMAT: Live in-studio with call-ins during the second hour.

Please try to listen. But if you can’t, visit the WGN radio audio archives.

http://wgnradio.com
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  #200  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2007, 4:03 PM
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For those who are interested...

Haithcock, Fioretti to debate on April 9

Second Ward Aldermanic candidates Bob Fioretti and Madeline Haithcock will have a candidates' debate on Monday, April 9, at Soka Gakkai, 1455 S. Wabash Ave. Free parking is available.


There will be an opportunity to meet and greet the candidates between 5:45 and 6:30 p.m. The candidates forum will run from 6:30 to 9 p.m.
Hosts are the Greater South Loop Association, the Columbia College Chicago journalism department, and Printers' Row Residents. Call (312) 913-1211.
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