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  #921  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2007, 4:22 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Holy cow, how did I miss these? looks like I've got some diagram work to do. Block 12 is such a great way to terminate Water Street. it really looks like Water just kind of dies off from around Red Arrow Park.

By the way, I'm starting to notice some running themes in proposed architecture around here: Does anyone notice the similarities between the US Bank sister tower, Block 12, and the new Ovation Plaza? And for that matter, University Club, the Art Museum and Pier Wisconsin?
I missed these too!

Yeah, I noticed that theme forming a while ago, I think I pointed it out too. You can also add some infrastructure to the list of University Club, Art Museum, and Pier Wisconsin. The Sixth street bridge, the new Amtrak Station and even the Detailing on the Marquette Interchange project all follow that sorta futurist/neo-art deco/modern design pattern of U-club, the art museum, and Pier Wisconsin, Heck, to an extent even US bank matches in its enormous white hulkieness!

You could probably add Kilbourn Tower to the US Bank2, Block 12, and Ovation Plaza list as well.

That Block 12 building is really exciting, between it and the Ruvin Building and other future Park East developments there will be a pretty nice extension of the downtown area to the north, hopefully eventually proving a complete link between the retail and entertainment areas of Water Street with those of Brady Street and that whole area. Ruvin and Block 12 will also provide a decent extension of the skyline and hopefully add density to the skyline from several different angles.
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  #922  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2007, 4:59 PM
wisco0117 wisco0117 is offline
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Mix and mismatch?
Some worry about quality of City Hall's facelift
By WHITNEY GOULD
[email protected]
Posted: Jan. 26, 2007

Quotable
The colors of the brick and terra cotta don't match, and the mortar joints are three times wider in some spots than they should be.
- H. Russell Zimmermann,
restoration consultant

Quotable
The color differences are small, and when you look at it from a distance or from the street, it all blends together.
- Chuck Engberg,
Engberg Anderson Design Partnership


Background
11/7/05: Gould: City Hall's exoskeleton draws out the beauty within
10/19/05: Taxpayers to find obstacle course at City Hall
8/21/05: Gould: City Hall tower poses lofty preservation questions
5/23/05: Editorial: Urgent update for City Hall
5/20/05: Council OKs City Hall restoration
5/19/05: Barrett opts to go with City Hall plan
5/1/05: Fixing City Hall won't come easy
4/21/05: Rising costs faulted in City Hall bids
3/21/03: Towering repair job awaits at City Hall



But beneath the steel scaffolding, controversy swirls: When its restoration is complete in November 2008, will the 1895 landmark look like the civic icon generations have known and cherished? Or will it look as if it has had a bad facelift?

Even preservationists cannot agree.

In one corner are critics such as H. Russell Zimmermann, a well-known restoration consultant, who says he is shocked by the differences between old and new materials. Zimmermann inspected the work recently, at the invitation of a public relations firm hired by the contractor, J.P. Cullen & Sons.

"They wanted me to write a puff piece," he says, "but I couldn't bring myself to do it. The colors of the brick and terra cotta don't match, and the mortar joints are three times wider in some spots than they should be."

Another preservationist, Matt Jarosz, agrees that some of the color differences are "pretty startling." Jarosz, who serves on the city's Historic Preservation Commission and heads the Historic Preservation Institute at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, also worries that in the relentless push to keep the project on schedule, not enough original material is being saved. Chunks that the contractor considered unsalvageable have turned up in local antiques shops.

"I don't expect them to do it perfectly," Jarosz says. "And I realize that you can't save everything. But it's a significant enough building that you should make the extra effort to get it right."

Ald. Bob Bauman, who has also raised questions about the project in the past, said he's still not comfortable with it.

"It just doesn't look right to me," he says. An anonymous letter writer who has peppered preservationists and the Journal Sentinel with close-up photos of the restoration work asks: "If this were your home, would you be satisfied with the matching of materials?"

In the other corner is the restoration team, led by Engberg Anderson Design Partnership. President Chuck Engberg, whose firm also restored the nearby Pabst Theater, says the criticisms are "unfounded and unfair."

Engberg concedes that there are color differences between old and new materials.

"But they are small," he says, "and when you look at it from a distance or from the street, it all blends together."

On close examination, perhaps the most noticeable contrast is in the brick and terra cotta that was used to rebuild the crumbling dormers facing N. Water St. Seen through binoculars from a 10th-floor room in the InterContinental (formerly Wyndham) Hotel across the street, the new brick has a uniform, orangy hue; the old is a more mottled pecan color, with flecks of yellow and gray. Likewise, the new terra cotta is a more uniform gray than the old.

Melding the old and new
But matching new to old materials is tricky. Walk around architect H.C. Koch's Flemish Renaissance Revival masterwork, and you'll see a patchwork of original brick colors, some darker or lighter than others. That's also true of the terra cotta, where water, weather and mold have produced color variations ranging from green and yellow to red and purple.

Gary Kulwicki, the city's facilities manager and point man on the project, says a big reason for the contrasts is that some parts of the building got heavier weathering than others. Engberg put it this way: "You had so many different climatic conditions around the building that it was like little eco-zones."

The section facing Water St. also was exposed directly to soot from an old, now-dismantled power plant on nearby Wells St. Then there are the effects of an ill-starred chemical cleaning more than 30 years ago, which eroded the surface of some bricks and left them more vulnerable to pollutants.

Add to that the change in brick-making technology. The old bricks came from a coal-fired "beehive" kiln near St. Louis, which produced darker hues at the top, where the temperature was hottest, and lighter ones at the bottom. The new bricks are made in a gas-fired, tunnel-shaped kiln that produces a more uniform color.

"It's like the difference between cooking a ham in the oven versus a Weber grill," Kulwicki says of the contrast between new and old.

After rejecting samples from a brick-maker in Ohio, the restoration team settled on a Canadian firm, I-XL Industries, to manufacture the 200,000 bricks (out of 8 million) that would have to be replaced. Engberg Anderson's Jim Otto said that after adjusting the clay formula several times, the team picked a mid-range hue that seemed close to the original.

Some 12,000 pieces of terra cotta are being made by Gladding, McBean, a 132-year-old company in Lincoln, Calif., which used original pieces to create molds for the new. New sandstone for the foundation came from the same quarry in Ohio that was tapped in 1895. But as with the terra cotta and the brick, color differences are visible here, too: The newer stone looks gray; the older, yellow. The process of aging will blur the differences, Engberg says.

Addressing other issues
Jim Draeger, an architectural historian with the Wisconsin Historical Society, says it's possible to tint building materials to artificially give them the patina of history, but that might not be a good idea. "How does the material age? In 20 years, what will it look like?"

As for criticism of the mortar joints, Kulwicki acknowledges that some were done badly and had to be corrected; in other cases, he says, the new joints are wider than the old because the new terra cotta shrank at different rates in the kiln. "But you can't see (the differences) from 300 feet away," he says, adding that some of the original sandstone joints themselves had wide variations because the stone wasn't cut uniformly.

As for the sale of damaged material, Kulwicki says that was permitted under the city's contract with J.P. Cullen. More intact pieces have been put in storage. "From an economic standpoint, there is a limit to how much you can save," he said.

Draeger, whose agency approved the rehab plans, said he is not in a position to judge the work at this point because he hasn't inspected it. Part of the problem, he said, is that the city's process for developing the plans may have been too insular and left critics feeling muzzled.

But the bottom line, he said, is that "the process of preservation is imperfect. In a way, it's a fallacy to say we're going to 'restore' a building like City Hall - it's more of a rehabilitation. You can't turn the clock back to what it was. You can't replicate those old technologies. No matter what they do, you're going to notice where they've touched it. It's not going to be seamless."
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  #923  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 4:32 AM
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ajknee ajknee is offline
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I'm not worried at all about it. With weathering after a few years it'll all look great. Everyone seems to want immediate results when really we should always be thinking about what's best in the long run.
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  #924  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 9:12 PM
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I'm not worried at all about it. With weathering after a few years it'll all look great. Everyone seems to want immediate results when really we should always be thinking about what's best in the long run.
Exactly. Of course it looks different with new materials. I wonder if they'll replace the copper roof with clean copper, instead of falsely aged, blue stuff. That'd be great.
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  #925  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 9:37 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Exactly. Of course it looks different with new materials. I wonder if they'll replace the copper roof with clean copper, instead of falsely aged, blue stuff. That'd be great.
I agree, shinny new copper would be sweet. The only worry I would have about that is that supposedly, and don't take what I say as complete fact cause I'm no expert on this, but supposedly copper doesn't get that blue-green oxidation when its up on a building like that on it anymore because of the changes in the climate caused by pollution. Either that or it takes wayyyyy longer than it should. Remember, I just heard someone say that on another thread, and think it sounds kinda fishy based off of what I know of chemistry, but its still something that needs to be considered...
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  #926  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 9:43 PM
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Even if that's true, it should still happen because the goal of the restoration is to repair and clean the original...it would be a reversal to the restoration to age the roof.

It's not like they cleaned the facade of Merchandise Mart in Chicago just to put more soot on and make it look aged...
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  #927  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 9:46 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Originally Posted by CGII View Post
Even if that's true, it should still happen because the goal of the restoration is to repair and clean the original...it would be a reversal to the restoration to age the roof.

It's not like they cleaned the facade of Merchandise Mart in Chicago just to put more soot on and make it look aged...
Yes I agree, just something to consider...

I really want new copper on it just so I can see what it looked like when it was the WTB!!! Yea for Milwaukee pride!
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  #928  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:03 PM
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I think the best view of Milwaukee's skyline is when you go east on Vliet, before it becomes Van Buren, right before MATC. The street curves around. You get a great view of all the taller buildings, nothing is obstructed. I might take a picture of it. Is there a way I can post a picture of it here from a digital camera?
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  #929  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2007, 11:02 PM
thrillbilly thrillbilly is offline
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bump
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  #930  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Updated info on the Ghazi mixed-use hotel proposal for the 4th and Wisconsin site:

Like the earlier version, it will be a U-shaped building with a public plaza set between two towers.





- 175-room hotel in a 15-story tower (operator unknown yet)
- 200 condos in a 25-to-31-story tower (height to be determined by demand for units)
- 100,000 sqft of retail/entertainment/office space (no committed tenants yet, in talks with some undisclosed potential tenants)
- Parking garage for 350 cars

Redevelopment Authority is to vote on approving a purchase option for Ghazi at meeting this Thursday. The purchase option would allow Ghazi some time to obtain financing.

Linkage to the Journal Sentinel article: Downtown hotel proposal refined - Wisconsin Ave. plan includes 200 condos

And more info from the Small Business Times: Another hotel proposal arises for site near convention center

Last edited by Markitect; Apr 5, 2007 at 3:08 AM.
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  #931  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2007, 7:17 PM
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That's quite dissapointing after those rough renderings we got quite a while back [it's way too Miami and the roof is rather tacky]. Nonetheless it'll bring the streetlife to that part of town a whole new dimension, and if this, LPT, and the Ruvin proposals all go through, we could be talking about a whole new downtown.

Props to the architects for giving the Hilton tower some space.
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  #932  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2007, 7:24 PM
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The design isn't concrete yet.
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  #933  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2007, 7:33 PM
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Naturally.
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  #934  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 1:59 AM
Crazy Ivan Crazy Ivan is offline
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Does anyone know whats going on on the corner of Kilbourn between Cass and Van Buren? There used to be a gas station on that parcel and its been vacant for years, but today they erected a fence and a crane showed up.
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  #935  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 2:18 AM
Markitect Markitect is offline
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Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan
Does anyone know whats going on on the corner of Kilbourn between Cass and Van Buren? There used to be a gas station on that parcel and its been vacant for years, but today they erected a fence and a crane showed up.

^ Terrace Row townhouses as viewed from Kilbourn Avenue.

Last edited by Markitect; Apr 5, 2007 at 3:02 AM.
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  #936  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 4:31 PM
Rush_437 Rush_437 is offline
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does anyone have a rendering - or know where i can get one - for the proposed Chase parking garage extension???
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  #937  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 6:49 PM
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Late last year, Brookfield Real Estate Opportunity Fund, a New York-based investment firm, purchased Chase Tower and its adjacent parking garage from JP Morgan Chase & Company. A few weeks ago, Brookfield unveiled preliminary plans for a 29-story mixed-use development on the parking garage site along N. Water Street, between E. Michigan and E. Clybourn Streets. The proposal calls for adding 12 floors of office space (220,000 sqft) and 12 floors of condominiums (about 100 units) on top of the existing 5-story garage, which itself would be renovated with some ground floor retail space, new facades, and RiverWalk improvements.


^ This preliminary rendering shows the proposed mixed-use tower built atop a renovated parking garage as viewed from the corner of N. Water and E. Clybourn Streets.

In addition, Brookfield is making enhancements to Chase Tower via remodeling the lobby, incorporating more ground floor retail, and other service improvements.

More from the Business Journal: Offices, condos for Chase parking ramp - $100 million project to add 24 floors
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  #938  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 7:24 PM
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In addition, Brookfield is making enhancements to Chase Tower via remodeling the lobby, incorporating more ground floor retail, and other service improvements.
this makes me nervous as i absolutely love the "glass box" lobby for chase tower. do you have any idea if the renovations will be sensitive to this wonderful modern statement?
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  #939  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 7:48 PM
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Haven't been over there since they started remodeling.

I'm more concerned about the awkward, poorly-massed tower proposal.
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  #940  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 7:52 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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I'm going home this weekend, I'll try to get downtown and get pictures of everything under construction. I'll be sure to stop by chase...
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