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  #621  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 5:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
Well Cohn was against the whole Railyard thing [right?] so I don't see how anyone could like him on this forum.
Cohn is against the Mercy Heart Center by way of supporting the Nimf*cks in the fab 40's neighborhood.

Last edited by BrianSac; Mar 28, 2007 at 6:38 AM.
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  #622  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 6:10 AM
greenmidtown greenmidtown is offline
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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
Well Cohn was against the whole Railyard thing [right?] so I don't see how anyone could like him on this forum.
I'm against the railyard developments not because it's a bad idea but I don't trust the snake-oil salesmen (Thomas Properties) running the deal. I think we've discussed their inexperience with these kinds of projects, previous failures, and likely embezzlement of City funds already in this forum. Sac deserves better imho than Thomas Properties.
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  #623  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 9:39 AM
econgrad econgrad is offline
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I am way confused. I thought Thomas Enterprises was established and had a good rep. Can you or someone please give me some specifics? This is the first I heard of all this. Thanks!
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  #624  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 1:19 PM
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urban_encounter urban_encounter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugit View Post
Actually, the head of Lambert Development out of SD said the East End Gateway project they have planned at 16th and L has become their top priority. It not as high end (or big) as the other two, but it still shows people are very interested in this city.

As I said easier, he stated that even though The Towers and Aura are having problems, the sales prices have caught the eye of lenders.

Even Catherdral Sqaure is still moving forward. They just went to Design Review for comment and review and the EIR is nearly done.

The Towers and Aura are as high end as high end can go, esp for this city. Nassi said he needs $400 a square to make a profit before construction prices when nuts. For a project like Aura (and Towers for that matter), with the intricate architecture, features and amenites, I'm sure that number is much higher now. I still think somehow at least one of these gets built. After that, I don’t think we see an ultra high-end condo project like these for a while. The more moderate projects, maybe in the 10-20 story range will be the norm. You guys know my take on that, as long as they are dense, mixed use and fill the streets with people, that's perfectly fine with me..and we keep seeing infill in midtown.

I remember people where complaining about 800J Lofts (still the only major housing project built in DT) being a waste and that Saca or Nassi would put up a 30 story building in a heartbeat, we now know that isn’t as simple as it sounds. At around 180 an acre, 800J is no sloutch on the density side.

In the meantime, at least we are seeing midtown really come into its own, even moving into parts of DT. The rest of DT is stilling crawling along though. Unfortunetly, we missed the highrise condo boom.

As far as downtown development, I've always maintained that it doesn't matter whether it's low, mid or high-rise housing, so long as it's high density housing. With so many opportunities for infill, DT and MT, housing will be fine regardless of what happens to the Towers or Aura.

I also still believe that R street, (has the potential) to be at the center of new residential housing DT, giving it's industrial feel and close proximity to the CBD and Light Rail.

We'll disagree in regards to other projects in the pipeline, especially Cathedral Square. That partiucalr project has been in the 'pipeline' for a few years now and I frankly question whether St. Anton has the ability to construct a highrise residential tower in Sacramento's current market.

Even though the County hasn't yet selected a new developer, I still believe the best chance (failing Aura) would be for the Library Lofts.

I agree with you though Costa that Sacramento seems to have caught on to the condo craze, just in time to see it crash...

Maybe next time, Sacramento will be ready.
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  #625  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon12 View Post
^in fairness, it's probably difficult to blame Fargo for the Towers' and Aura's current difficulties. The city (at least to the extent that is public knowledge) has come through (or in Aura's case, looks willing to come through) with what has been asked of them.

But in general, I like Sugit's baseball team metaphor. The city council behaves as if they're running a city the size of Galt. They're just in over their heads, but that's the kind of leadership that most Sacramento voters identify with. In general, Sacramento voters are far less sophisticated than they like to give themselves credit for.

I agree 100% Brandon..

The city can be faulted for a lack of leadership in many respects, but not in the case of Aura or the Towers. I believe that city
leaders finally decided it was time for Sacramento's skyline to grow up. 8 years ago the Towers would have been shot
down and never been approved at all. But overall council members conduct their affairs, as if Sacramento is Galt or Turlock.

In regards to Sacramento voters you hit the nail right on the head.
Frankly I'm not sure why that is. (Why Sacramento voters lack sophistication).. Perhaps it's because the Sacramento
region is basically a collection of suburban neighborhoods without a true identity?

The city proper has historically taken a verbal beating by locals and people from outside the area. (Admittedly by many people
who have probably never been to Sacramento).. But Sacramentans are just plain apathetic and ususally jump on the
(trash Sacramento) bandwagon with outsiders.

Sacramentans turn out in strong numbers for the Symphony, the Broadway Series, the Music Circus and a host of other
perfroming arts. But the region as a whole doesn't recognize the benefit in investing in a concert all or perfroming arts center.
The same is true for the Kings. Most people in Sacramento are Kings fans, but collectively people have no interest in
keeping the Kings or ensuring that Sacramento has an arena for hosting future events.

The view most Sacramentans have of their place in the world seems to end at the property line of their suburban home.

It's a very narrow and self centered view.


City's with a strong civic identity and pride are usually cities that thrive. They're cities that people want to live in, businesses want to relocate to and tourists want to visit. They're cities that invest in their cultural, academic, transportation and entertainment options.

Sacramento has historically never been that kind of place and unless attitudes there change, it might never be.

Last edited by urban_encounter; Mar 28, 2007 at 1:46 PM.
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  #626  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
I also still believe that R street, (has the potential) to be at the center of new residential housing DT, giving it's industrial feel and close proximity to the CBD and Light Rail.
Actually, I disagree here. There are so many issues with R Street and not enough money to fix them. From what I heard Capitol Lofts is having major problems and the vibe I got was it was in real danger of not happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urban_encounter View Post
We'll disagree in regards to other projects in the pipeline, especially Cathedral Square. That partiucalr project has been in the 'pipeline' for a few years now and I frankly question whether St. Anton has the ability to construct a highrise residential tower in Sacramento's current market.
St Anton has build thousands of apartments and condos over the last 10-15 years, they have the experiece with housing. "The principals, Mr. Geremia and Mr. Eggert, collectively have more than 45 years of experience in the construction and real estate industries." While almost all in the burbs, they still have 21st and L under their belt.

The fact that they haven't gone balls to wall with the project (part becuase the city has made them jump through a ton of hoops with the traffic study and "historic alley") and have done do dilagence makes me actually a little more comfortable with this one.

Hell, even their website says:
Cathedral Square - under construction


Last edited by sugit; Mar 28, 2007 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Upload Rendering
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  #627  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmidtown View Post
I'm against the railyard developments not because it's a bad idea but I don't trust the snake-oil salesmen (Thomas Properties) running the deal. I think we've discussed their inexperience with these kinds of projects, previous failures, and likely embezzlement of City funds already in this forum. Sac deserves better imho than Thomas Properties.
I don't know where you came up with that - you had said the same thing once before and i was equally confused.

Thomas ran into problems with a different project just like every developer currently working in downtown sacramento. But they're cleaning up the railyards as we speak, so things are already better than they were four months ago.

Thomas has held an absurd amount of public input workshops. The've presented multiple plans to the public, and are soon to present another revision by request of the city. They quietly went along with the city's request to present a sports and entertainment district in their plans - they didn't come up with that themselves - though they seemed to have caught much of the flak when it began to fail. Thomas reps speak to multiple groups involved in sacramento planning from public transit advocates and land use professionals, to cyclists groups and railroad enthusiasts.

I don't know where you're coming up with the embezzlement charges... could you expound on that accusation? If I were to think of something scathing to say of the whole transaction, it would be that the city mishandled their own money in desperation to expedite the land deal. Fargo was directly quoted in the News & Review as saying "...we had hoped that our partners in all of this would be stepping up a little more, but the reality is, we wanted to get this done badly." and I would've been furious if the city hit the brakes on the railyards deal because of the issue with moving tracks. Hell, maybe the city can hire UP's trussle crew to do it in 12 days.

Bottom line is that Thomas is moving fast to get this project going, but there is still plenty of time to get involved with the process as the plans haven't even been finalized. And if Sacramento deserves a better developer, they either didn't volunteer themselves, or couldn't take it as far as Thomas has now.
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  #628  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 11:15 PM
Phillip Phillip is offline
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Originally Posted by BrianSac View Post
Cohn is against the Mercy Heart Center by way of supporting the Nimf*cks in the fab 40's neighborhood.
Who besides Mercy is in favor of Mercy Heart Center? Neighborhood opposition is almost universal and I think some NIMBYism (or Nimf*ckism) is in order. H and J Streets are already inadequate for current traffic loads and can't be widened without tearing down all the houses and businesses along one side of both streets. Adding more buildings and services to Mercy campus will bring gridlock. Not even ambulances will be able to get through those two lane stretches during rush hour.

Interesting that despite strong and vocal neighborhood opposition SEIU hasn't uttered a peep of protest over traffic and environmental impacts at Mercy. They've spent tens of thousands opposing Sutter's expansion, where neighborhood opposition has been nil. SEIU's silence can be bought and Mercy bought it.
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  #629  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 11:16 PM
What is a Rivercat? What is a Rivercat? is offline
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So I've been in San Diego this week and I have to say damn, this city is really going vertical. Sacramento desperately needs to take a lesson from San Diego - what a beautiful city this has become...though there are too many "twin" buildings.
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  #630  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2007, 11:26 PM
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Current Projects and status within the planning Dept.
Last modified 03/27/2007 at 1:59 PM

CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT

DR # LEVEL OF DESIGN REVIEW ADDRESS PLANNER DESCRIPTION DATE OF APPROVAL
IN PROGRESS

DR07-0009 Design Commission 831 L St. - Bldg. to be replaced my 13-story mixed use bldg.

DR07-0019 Staff 300 Capitol Mall - Exterior Renovation

DR05-003 Design Commission 408 J St. - Re-development & re-furbishment of existing Westfiled Shopping town Downtown Plaza

DR04-324 Design Commission 1215 J St. - Capitol Grand Tower. Demo existing building and construct a 56 story mixed-use bldg.


CENTRAL CITY DESIGN REVIEW DISTRICT

DR # LEVEL OF DESIGN REVIEW ADDRESS PLANNER DESCRIPTION DATE OF APPROVAL
IN PROGRESS


DR06-162 Design Director 1523 E St. - New (11) unit condo. Complex.
Design Commission Hearing Appealed 01/02/07

DR05-241 Design Commission 500 Capitol Mall - Demo existing five (5) story building. Construct a new +/- 540,000 sq. ft. bldg.

DR05-402 Design Commission 921 10th St. - New Condos w/ Retail

DR05-300 Design Commission 1215 I Street - Epic Tower

DR05-340 Design Commission 1020 J St. - Mixed Use High-rise

APPROVED
DR06-270 Staff 812 L St. - Facade Remodel 03/20/2007

DR06-301 Staff 2111 24th St. - Exterior Renovation 01/03/2007

DR06-318 Staff 701 16th Street - Exterior Rehab. 03/20/2007

DR07-0027 Staff 2301 K St. - Replace windows (approve previously completed per housing case) in vacant church 02/26/2007

DR07-0011 Staff 918 25th St. - SFR exterior rehab of siding & windows. 01/22/2007

DR07-0020 Staff 1915 21st St. - Façade Remodel 02/20/2007

DR07-0022 Staff 1616 D St. Unit #6 - Change height of approved lattice work (DR05-038) 01/25/2007

DR07-0035 Staff 2111 Q St. - Exterior rehab. To commercial bldg. 02/15/2007

DR07-0039 Staff 1400 S St. - Remodel existing office bldg. 02/13/2007

DR07-0047 Staff/Minor 1017 24th St. - New HVAC system to be installed behind parapet wall of commercial bldg. 01/31/2007

DR07-0048 Staff/Minor 301 25th St. - Residential fire repair 01/31/2007

DR07-0052 Staff/Minor 1901 22nd St. - Minor misc. repairs 02/08/2007

DR07-0056 Staff/Minor 2203 13th St. - Replace rear elevation windows and exterior siding areas w/ termite damage 02/09/2007

DR06-291 Staff/Minor 2115 J St. - Installation of (5) space heaters at sidewalk café. 01/05/2007

DR06-300 Staff 2416 D St. - New 2-story SFR 02/14/2007

DR07-0012 Staff/Minor 918 25th St. - SFR Exterior Rehab. 01/09/2007

DR06-326 Staff 2311 U St. - Apt. Rehab. 02/15/2007

DR06-294 Design Director 2211 F St. - Rehab an existing +/- 19,000 commercial bldg. 01/17/2007

DR07-0071 Staff/Minor 1818 T St. - Repairs to front staircase. Code enforcement case. 02/21/2007

DR07-0014 Staff/Minor 1905 I St. - Rehab to exterior siding & porch. 03/06/2007

DR07-0041 Staff 2219 18th St. - Convert SFR into duplex, add door to exterior 03/07/2007

WAITING
DR06-234 Staff 1814 Broadway - Gas Station Façade Remodel 01/23/2007

DR07-0040 Staff 2309 D St. - Rear addition, Approx. 400 sq. ft. 02/14/2007
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  #631  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 2:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
Who besides Mercy is in favor of Mercy Heart Center? Neighborhood opposition is almost universal and I think some NIMBYism (or Nimf*ckism) is in order. H and J Streets are already inadequate for current traffic loads and can't be widened without tearing down all the houses and businesses along one side of both streets. Adding more buildings and services to Mercy campus will bring gridlock. Not even ambulances will be able to get through those two lane stretches during rush hour.

Interesting that despite strong and vocal neighborhood opposition SEIU hasn't uttered a peep of protest over traffic and environmental impacts at Mercy. They've spent tens of thousands opposing Sutter's expansion, where neighborhood opposition has been nil. SEIU's silence can be bought and Mercy bought it.
If Mercy bought SEIU's silence, thank GOD. But, I seriously doubt it.

Mercy has bent over backwards for their neighbors by downsizing their plans dramatically.

Don't forget, its Mercy's neighborhood, too. Mercy has been serving the health care needs of Sacramento for 125 years or more.

Mercy is going to build a BRAND NEW SCHOOL, and create 20 new residences in addition to the Heart Center.

The Heart Center is only 4 stories tall with only 123,350 sf.

This Heart Center will be state-of-the-art and one day may save your life, or a loved ones life.

Why would anyone push away such an important asset to our city? Those in opposition are just plain selfish. People like that disgust me.
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  #632  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 2:58 AM
econgrad econgrad is offline
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Originally Posted by TowerDistrict View Post
I don't know where you came up with that - you had said the same thing once before and i was equally confused.

Thomas ran into problems with a different project just like every developer currently working in downtown sacramento. But they're cleaning up the railyards as we speak, so things are already better than they were four months ago.

Thomas has held an absurd amount of public input workshops. The've presented multiple plans to the public, and are soon to present another revision by request of the city. They quietly went along with the city's request to present a sports and entertainment district in their plans - they didn't come up with that themselves - though they seemed to have caught much of the flak when it began to fail. Thomas reps speak to multiple groups involved in sacramento planning from public transit advocates and land use professionals, to cyclists groups and railroad enthusiasts.

I don't know where you're coming up with the embezzlement charges... could you expound on that accusation? If I were to think of something scathing to say of the whole transaction, it would be that the city mishandled their own money in desperation to expedite the land deal. Fargo was directly quoted in the News & Review as saying "...we had hoped that our partners in all of this would be stepping up a little more, but the reality is, we wanted to get this done badly." and I would've been furious if the city hit the brakes on the railyards deal because of the issue with moving tracks. Hell, maybe the city can hire UP's trussle crew to do it in 12 days.

Bottom line is that Thomas is moving fast to get this project going, but there is still plenty of time to get involved with the process as the plans haven't even been finalized. And if Sacramento deserves a better developer, they either didn't volunteer themselves, or couldn't take it as far as Thomas has now.

Thanks Tower! I was confused as well when I saw that post.

BrianSac, also Thank you! I agree 100%, I live near Mercy, and I am not one of the Nimby's. I also believe it will improve the property values of the surrounding area, especially with the school. Thanks again for that post.

Last edited by econgrad; Mar 29, 2007 at 3:03 AM.
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  #633  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by innov8 View Post

DR04-324 Design Commission 1215 J St. - Capitol Grand Tower. Demo existing building and construct a 56 story mixed-use bldg.
I though it was bumped up to 70 storys
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  #634  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 3:35 AM
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I was wondering that too. Guess they haven't updated that list in a while. Kinda surprised to still see Epic on there too, considering what Aura's going through right now. And what exterior renovation are they doing to the "Emerald Tower"?
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  #635  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 4:55 AM
brandon12 brandon12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
Who besides Mercy is in favor of Mercy Heart Center? Neighborhood opposition is almost universal and I think some NIMBYism (or Nimf*ckism) is in order. H and J Streets are already inadequate for current traffic loads and can't be widened without tearing down all the houses and businesses along one side of both streets. Adding more buildings and services to Mercy campus will bring gridlock. Not even ambulances will be able to get through those two lane stretches during rush hour.

Interesting that despite strong and vocal neighborhood opposition SEIU hasn't uttered a peep of protest over traffic and environmental impacts at Mercy. They've spent tens of thousands opposing Sutter's expansion, where neighborhood opposition has been nil. SEIU's silence can be bought and Mercy bought it.
Phillip, with all due respect, please allow me to comment. I have almost 10 years of experience in healthcare management (none of it with the Sisters of Mercy, so I feel I can be completely objective).
First, I know first-hand that the hospital has many, many neighborhood residents that support their plan. Of course, they're not as vocal as the selfish nimbys, none of whom have been in the neighborhood as long as Mercy. Once again, I liken these people to those that recently move into the flight path of an airport and then complain about noise or expansion plans.
The heart hospital will truly be an asset to the entire region (as suggest by a previous post above). In fact, the realities of today's healthcare environment dictate that Mercy expand or die. The hospital, as currently configured, is simply not viable in today's market. Trust me.
In my opinion, your most glaring mirsrepresntation above is that SEIU opposed Sutter's expansion on any grounds other than purely political. SEUI didn't oppose Mercy's plans because they are not involved in a union organization struggle with them. SEIU couldn't give a — about environmental issues related to Mercy or Sutter. That's just a smoke screen. I know it, the city council knows it, almost anyone with a passing knowledge of the situation knows it.
To say that H and J streets will be so gridlocked that ambulances will not be able to pass is just hyperbolic hogwash. C'mon. They have sirens. The reality is that the heart wing addition will not add significantly to traffic (especially by emergency ambulance traffic.) The vast, vast majority of patients to the heart hospital will be scheduled appointments. Ambulances will continue to deliver their emergent patients to emergency rooms across the region on the basis of available capacity.

The bottom line is that Mercy has been in the neighborhood literally 10 times longer than most of their residential neighbors. What nerve on behalf of the residents! If their main concern is traffic, maybe they should get the hell out of their range rovers and take a walk. These people are hypocrites the the nth degree.
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  #636  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 5:04 AM
SacUrbnPlnr SacUrbnPlnr is offline
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Originally Posted by What is a Rivercat? View Post
So I've been in San Diego this week and I have to say damn, this city is really going vertical. Sacramento desperately needs to take a lesson from San Diego - what a beautiful city this has become...though there are too many "twin" buildings.
------------------
San Diego's downtown renaissance is indeed impressive. Keep in mind, however, that it did not happen overnight. Before the mid-1980s, there was less to downtown San Diego than in downtown Sacramento today. Horton Plaza was one of the early catalist projects that started the ball rolling. Before Horton Plaza, there was little downtown shopping.

Fast forward more than 20 years, and look at San Diego now. But it took years of incremental improvements and milliions of dollars of public investments and subsidies on the part of the City. It also doesn't hurt that San Diego has a great climate, is a waterfront City, and has a new downtown ballpark.

Perhaps the lesson for Sacramento is that patience and perserverance will eventually pay off. We are in the early stages in our downtown renaissance, it may take until 2020 (or longer) before downtown Sacramento has the kind of vibrancy and verticality that San Diego has today.
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  #637  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 5:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
H and J Streets are already inadequate for current traffic loads and can't be widened without tearing down all the houses and businesses along one side of both streets. Adding more buildings and services to Mercy campus will bring gridlock. Not even ambulances will be able to get through those two lane stretches during rush hour.
Those are nimby words and fear tactics. They are not based in fact.

"When you hear and see a siren, you cautiously move to the right, stop and wait for the emergency vehicle to pass.",
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  #638  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 5:51 AM
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621 Capitol Mall (US Bank Tower)


500 Capitol Mall


More under high-rise construction http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=103
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  #639  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 5:55 AM
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arod74, aint in the truth,


downtownserg's: whackramento, and dramamento ain't bad either,

haha thanks. my friend and i were talking, and we came up with: sacrament-NO, and saCANTmento.
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  #640  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2007, 5:55 AM
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Innov8,
Nice, as usual,
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