Canada Line | Completed

[agrant]

I really don't care what the announcements are in. I think I'd figure everything out even before I got on for the first time. It's all common sense, and a really basic transit line.

You need to think hard about adding another language... What's the message we are saying if we were to add Cantonese or Mandarin? Richmond is officially recognized as a Chinese city? Screw all the other cultures? Until Canada's official languages include Chinese, then I'd say it isn't a great idea. But like I said, I wouldn't be upset either way.

[mr.x]

MTR announcements on YouTube:

"Please stand back from the doors": http://youtube.com/watch?v=tB1GBB6S2F8

"Please mind the gap between the train and the platform":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jAcGjtyg0Z8

"The train to Hong Kong is arriving."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rSlqQgnR0gY

"The train to Chai Wan is arriving. Please let passengers exit the train.":
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uHL4P8rQmrc

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Learn the language and adapt to the society around you. Don't expect it to adapt to you.

i dont think anyone is to expect an old asian granny to learn to read a whole new language. they do however "learn" the language, even tho they can understand english, they still know when to disembark from repetitively listening to their station stops. that should suffice adapting to the society.

[SpongeG]

i am sure if they did do it in some other language quebec would get involved if french was not chosen - after all it is a federal project

[Fairbanks]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Tell that to a blind man.

Anyway, try taking the train during rush-hour standing room only and being short. You can't see what station you're at. Announcements serve a purpose and removing them may not affect you, but would affect others...

I say stations in Richmond should be announced in Chinese and then English. (I'm not asian, by the way)

The names of the Richmond locations are the same in every language because they are English names. There is no Mandarin or Cantonese name for "Landsdowne" or "Richmond Centre". The same follows for all other stations along that route including the Indo-Canadian community.

Just my two cents...It's an understandable thought though.

Fairbanks

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by bils

Dude, I'm not sure if your argument is really relevant to the debate that we're having here. Truth is that many of the passengers will be Asian, and whether you like it or not, many of them will not speak English. "Learning English" is a difficult task for anyone who didn't grow up here, and I don't think that having Chinese on the Canada Line is a reflection of immigrants' inability to learn our language.

Perhaps you should travel to just about any other country in the world, and notice the prevalence of English, even in societies where hardly anyone understands it, and reflect upon the convenience it provides you as a visitor.

Remember that the Canada Line will be a gateway for many international tourists who do not speak English and may be confused when they arrive.

I am personally a Canadian-born Chinese (how's my English?), so forgive me for my bias, but I feel that having multiple languages on the Canada Line would be a wonderful reflection of the multiculturalism, diversity, and international appeal that Vancouver boasts.

Also, please note that if it wasn't for these "immigrants carving out their ethnic enclaves in our country", this Canada Line thread would probably belong somewhere in the Dreams section of SSP. Perhaps you're the one who wants to have their cake and eat it too.

^Well said, I agree with every word.

[Fairbanks]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Tell that to a blind man.

Anyway, try taking the train during rush-hour standing room only and being short. You can't see what station you're at. Announcements serve a purpose and removing them may not affect you, but would affect others...

I say stations in Richmond should be announced in Chinese and then English. (I'm not asian, by the way)

The announcements should be in English. But the signage is a different matter. Chinese characters could be part of printed signage.

But that seems irrelevant also since once you are on the Canada Line going in either direction its hard to miss where your stop is unless you are asleep.

That's why there are windows.

There are audible announcements in English for those of us who are sight impaired.

Ok that's my 4 cents worth.

Fairbanks

[cornholio]

I cant beleive people are trying to acomodate imigrants with other languanges...and im saying this as a imigrant who has had to learn english once and before that had to learn german in the same situation once. Doesnt mater who you are but it shouldent take a person more then a couple months to be able to grasp the basics of english to be able to funtcion reletivly well in a english speaking society. Although I do see the benefit in catrering to imigrants with their own language since that does minimize any posibel tensions until they either learn english or die off as their children will ultimetly be educated in a Canadian school but in anycase this is i think is going to far. As far as tourists are concerend they can rent out one of those transit tour things or something to help them out or even beter get a map since the station names will be displayed inside and outside the train.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by bils

Dude, I'm not sure if your argument is really relevant to the debate that we're having here. Truth is that many of the passengers will be Asian, and whether you like it or not, many of them will not speak English. "Learning English" is a difficult task for anyone who didn't grow up here, and I don't think that having Chinese on the Canada Line is a reflection of immigrants' inability to learn our language.

When pressed with the absolute need, you will do it. Why do you think French immersion works so much better than just learning it in a course?

Originally Posted by bils

Perhaps you should travel to just about any other country in the world, and notice the prevalence of English, even in societies where hardly anyone understands it, and reflect upon the convenience it provides you as a visitor.

Remember that the Canada Line will be a gateway for many international tourists who do not speak English and may be confused when they arrive.

When in Rome...

It would only be respectful and courteous to do your homework and familiarize yourself with the country's language and customs in advance (at least on a rudimentary level) if you're going to move or even just travel to another country, English or otherwise.

Originally Posted by squeezied

i dont think anyone is to expect an old asian granny to learn to read a whole new language. they do however "learn" the language, even tho they can understand english, they still know when to disembark from repetitively listening to their station stops. that should suffice adapting to the society.

The inadaptability of old people is a common argument used by opponents of the metric system in the US. Got to move ahead even if they can't keep up.

[Bert]

Tourists account for a fairly significant amount of Skytrain ridership. I think it's something like 10-15%. With Approved Destination Status for Canada, I can see Chinese tourism taking off, as well. So there's a decent case for English/Mandarin/Cantonese announcements. But as pointed out, you might have to include French or other languages as well, for political reasons.

I definitely think having more than two languages for announcements would get on commuters nerves. I think leaving the audio announcement as English, and having in-train displays to make announcements in multiple languages would be a good balance.

[bils]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

It would only be respectful and courteous to do your homework and familiarize yourself with the country's language and customs in advance (at least on a rudimentary level) if you're going to move or even just travel to another country, English or otherwise.

When pressed with the absolute need, you will do it.

Again, as I stated above, I don't see how having multiple languages on a rapid transit system relates to one's disrespect, discourteousness, or lack of homework in familiarizing with the country's language & customs - if I may paraphrase your last statement.

As well, it would be ludicrous to suggest that people in Hong Kong or Tokyo would be offended by English, as you seem to be with Chinese or any other language.

"When pressed with the absolute need, you will do it." I agree wholeheartedly. However, you fail to realize that there isn't an absolute need to speak English in Canada. This is Canada, my friend. The guy who just moved from China and became a citizen yesterday - as well as half the residents of Richmond - are just as Canadian as you.

It appears your opinion on this matter stems from a much deeper distain of cultures different from yours, based on your perceived presence of "ethnic enclaves in this country". This is quite a difficult concept to grasp considering you are a proud citizen of Vancouver, which I presume to be true judging from your active participation on the local threads.

Anyways, let's put an end to this. I'm not exactly proud that we need to be debating such a topic especially in this day in age. Let's just not forget the contributions of all who live in, and visit, this city in making this transit line possible - and may whatever decisions that are made be a positive reflection of this city.

Back to the Canada Line. No.3 Rd is a mess, eh?

[cornholio]

^Just one question...do you feel people that come to Canada should learn to speak and write english?

If your answer is yes then what is the point of having multiple languages on say the Canada line?

If your answer is no then please, please explain.

I have no problem with people holding on to their culture or language, I speak my native language fluently and still can converse in German technicly my second language. But to tell you the truth if there were huge amounts of people from my native land and I was abel to get by with out ever having the need to learn english then to be honest I would not have learned english as fast as i have, not even close to as fast as i have. Which would of been wrong, and I dont see why people want to incurage this? I find it extremly direspectfull when I see people who have lived here for years and cant speak english...i mean i uderstand it and i see the cause behind it but again its wrong and we should not incurage it. Personaly I would like to see two things implemented, for one before a person get their citizenship they have to prove that they have a good enough understanding of the spoken and writen english language to get by and for two I would not include foreign languages in public areas(unless they are services directly aimed at new imigrants). As far as tourists are concerned there are much beter ways to acomodate them in the 21st century, for example you can have gps/digital signal devices that can be rented for a small fee that can give tourists directions and translations to make their life easier if they deisre to do so. There are much more efficient and better ways to acomodate tourists and infact i find it hard to understand that so few cities around the world have tried to use cheap modern technology to acomodate tourists in ways that most would think was just fantasy.

*Ok so back to the Canada line....has there ever been any plans to alow a future extension to delta/ladner to cross the river and create a park and ride facility? i would think that this would be a good idea to combine it with the future massey tunnel expansion that should hapen after the gateway project.

[mr.x]

*Ok so back to the Canada line....has there ever been any plans to alow a future extension to delta/ladner to cross the river and create a park and ride facility? i would think that this would be a good idea to combine it with the future massey tunnel expansion that should hapen after the gateway project.

there aren't any plans, but Richmond City Centre section of the line is designed in a way that it would not prohibit a future southward extension of the line.

i wonder if they also designed it in a way so that they could double track that section in the future.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by bils

"When pressed with the absolute need, you will do it." I agree wholeheartedly. However, you fail to realize that there isn't an absolute need to speak English in Canada. This is Canada, my friend.

Because we're too wishy-washy with asserting our official language on the people who come here. Yielding a little too much, aren't we?

Originally Posted by bils

It appears your opinion on this matter stems from a much deeper distain of cultures different from yours, based on your perceived presence of "ethnic enclaves in this country". This is quite a difficult concept to grasp considering you are a proud citizen of Vancouver, which I presume to be true judging from your active participation on the local threads.

For those that make no effort to adjust and connect to the preexisting local cultures, yes.

By the way, I happen to be Asian myself (surprise, surprise!), though not Chinese, and couldn't care less if there isn't a single word spoken or written in my native tongue at any public service. I have no interest in the culture of my heritage, though the food is good (same goes for Chinese).

Originally Posted by bils

Anyways, let's put an end to this. I'm not exactly proud that we need to be debating such a topic especially in this day in age. Let's just not forget the contributions of all who live in, and visit, this city in making this transit line possible - and may whatever decisions that are made be a positive reflection of this city.

So how about the umpteen billion other cultures that have a presence here and their languages? What provisions will be made for them? How about recorded announcements, signs and printed material in every one of those languages as well, and a requirement for staff to be fluent in every one of them also?

Which brings up a point. Will there be increasing social pressures to learn their languages to function as a member of this society? Could it become an increased requirement to get a job around here? How about our children having to learn it in school? Would that be going too far?

[bils]

Originally Posted by cornholio

^Just one question...do you feel people that come to Canada should learn to speak and write english?

Yes, I do

Let me make an analogy if I may. Bear with me for a moment.

Let's take 500,000 English speaking Canadians, and move them all to a suburb of Shanghai. Let's say that most of them do a little research on Shanghainese culture, learn a few basic words, etc.

When they all move over, they'll settle into their houses, bringing along with them items that remind them of home. They'll bring with them all their clothes (cuz heck, clothes don't fit over there), they'll bring their photo albums, their music. They'll decorate their houses in familiar ways, they'll plant flowers in their gardens and set up swingsets for their kids. They'll prolly want satellite TV to catch their favorite shows and of course them Canuck games.

Some of them, being smart business people and realizing the specific needs of this new immigrant group, will open up stores catering specifically to them. They'll open up stores with their favorite foods, clothes, videos, etc. Business will be conducted as it would in Canada, in English.

Most of these 500,000 people will understand however that if they are to prosper and function as citizens of Shanghai that they will need to learn the local language. And thus, support groups for immigrants will be set up, providing language services, job opportunities, etc. However, this is a difficult task that most realize will take many years, if not longer. Learning a language that bears no similarity with their mother tongue is a formidable task.

The impact of 500,000 new citizens would put strain on the city, not just in terms of social impact but also on its infrastructure. Realizing that new transportation options will be required, the government approves a new rapid transit line into the suburb, and proudly names it the China Line. This line features 18 stops, bringing residents straight to the financial district of Pudong.

A few years later, the transit line opens, and both residents and immigrants are elated.



Here is what it looks like.

http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/2003/11/04/screen-shanghai.metro.map-future.jpg

Originally Posted by cornholio

If your answer is yes then what is the point of having multiple languages on say the Canada line?

Because it would be much easier for them to travel if a map in English were available:

http://www.china-tour.cn/images/news/1538-1.gif



How is that offensive?

[twoNeurons]

It's not offensive... for example, in Japan it's common practice to have romanized station names. Bear in mind, that the above is NOT English, remember... the station names are in Pin-yin, or romanized Chinese.

It may seem the distinction is small, but technically it's not English.

Fwiw, in Japan, the major cities have station maps with Roman-ji and Japanese at many(most?) stations.

I don't believe there is a way to "Asian Characterize" English. Perhaps one could do it with Hangul (Korean) though.

ANYWAY, people who live in a certain area do get used to characters. It's not easy to read those Chinese Characters, but with a little bit of trial and error and memorization you can associate names with sounds (Assuming there are recorded station announcements)

Anyway, wasn't this whole discussion all about how the purpose of the announcements benefited the sight-impaired? There's been a lot of good debate on the language side of things. I wasn't 100% serious about the Chinese Announcements. However, I could see Chinese signage and announcements being used in the actual stations in Richmond. It would add a Richmond flavor to things, don't you think?

As a side note, I read while on the train. When you really get into a book, audible announcements are great for not missing your stop.

And imho, we REALLY need THIS announcement in Vancouver:

"The train to Chai Wan is arriving. Please let passengers exit the train.":

People are SO rude and pushy about getting on the train and don't let people off. If they waited 4 seconds, it would be far easier to get on.

[fishy]

Linguistics at its best. For the people arguing about immigrants not picking up the language when moving here, don't you notice that most of them are either middle aged or elderlies? Well it's no coincidence because the older you get, the harder it is to learn something new and learning a language is no exception. Search it up and read on it before any of you argue that you(most likely young when you immigrated to Canada) had to learn a new language so why is it an exception for others. However, the thing I don't understand is why there is so much negativity with implementing other languages in the skytrain? Doesn't Canada promote multiculturalism?

[twoNeurons]

Other languages already are implemented in Skytrain. For example, ticketing machines are in a few languages, chinese included.

The idea that is being discussed is should be put Chinese on the station announcements in some or all areas.

[Fairbanks]

Originally Posted by Fairbanks

The announcements should be in English. But the signage is a different matter. Chinese characters could be part of printed signage.

But that seems irrelevant also since once you are on the Canada Line going in either direction its hard to miss where your stop is unless you are asleep.

That's why there are windows.

There are audible announcements in English for those of us who are sight impaired.

Ok that's my 4 cents worth.

Fairbanks

If you read my whole comment you will see the following statement...

There are audible announcements in English for those of us who are sight impaired.

Thanks,
FAIRbanks

[Fairbanks]

Yeehaa:

Lets go crazy and put multiple linguistics on all grocery items and clothing labels...just remember that cereal and costs more in this country because we have to print bilingually. Can you imagine how long your clothing label tags will be when we start printing them in multiple languages?

Fairbanks