CHICAGO: boom rundown - everything over 12 floors. v4

[LoyolaBeachView]

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Hey, I think I just found a rendering of the Post Office Redevelopment on accident...



^^^That looks like they are doing some major demolition to rennovate it...

I don't mind demolition of interior space within this building, but to mess with the great imposing facade is just fucking dumb. I could see huge courtyards carved into the building with 2 long coridoors of residential units. You'd have units in the east hallway facing east as well as west into a light court and in the west hall you'd have units facing west as well as east into the light court. You can have hotel space in the north towers/wings with retail and resturant space in the south winds with a kick as green roof across the entire building with solar panels and wind turbines.

Developers need to thing about other things besides lining their pockets.

[Norsider]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Developers need to thing about other things besides lining their pockets.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but exactly what is it that you think about when it comes to your livelihood?

I understand the basic thrust of the feeling here. A sense of powerlessness as structures you admire are tampered with or even destroyed. And I feel this sometimes too. It hurt when they knocked down the old Merc just so they could do...nothing. But it is not very useful to entertain unrealistic hopes about the intentions of developers. After all, they are businessmen/women who view these projects as a means to obtain money. They are not, nor will they ever be, in the "preservation" business. Chicago has been built up and torn down many times over. And it will be once and twice and three times again. The shape of the skyline is a look at the "tree rings" of the city. What market forces were in play in each era. And so this era will leave its own mark. Mere waves against the sand.

Sorry to wax poetic here, but this is the reality. When we look at the Mona Lisa, we see art. And so does everyone else. But when we look at the old Post Office and see art, we are unhappily in the minority. The Mona Lisa, unlike old inefficient hulks of buildings, does not cost millions of dollars to maintain. Even realizing that, it's quite a bit different when it's your own money.

Honestly, how would any of us feel if after buying an old money-pit type house, we were told by a group of architecture fans that we couldn't repair or modernize or even demolish the thing because it happened to be a nice example of Queen Anne, or it happened to be designed by a protege of Louis Sullivan. Put some of your own money in the deal, and it is truly head-spinning how quickly some of those concerns become simply academic.

[honte]

Originally Posted by Norsider

Just playing devil's advocate here, but exactly what is it that you think about when it comes to your livelihood?

I understand the basic thrust of the feeling here. A sense of powerlessness as structures you admire are tampered with or even destroyed. And I feel this sometimes too. It hurt when they knocked down the old Merc just so they could do...nothing. But it is not very useful to entertain unrealistic hopes about the intentions of developers. After all, they are businessmen/women who view these projects as a means to obtain money. They are not, nor will they ever be, in the "preservation" business. Chicago has been built up and torn down many times over. And it will be once and twice and three times again. The shape of the skyline is a look at the "tree rings" of the city. What market forces were in play in each era. And so this era will leave its own mark. Mere waves against the sand.

Sorry to wax poetic here, but this is the reality. When we look at the Mona Lisa, we see art. And so does everyone else. But when we look at the old Post Office and see art, we are unhappily in the minority. The Mona Lisa, unlike old inefficient hulks of buildings, does not cost millions of dollars to maintain. Even realizing that, it's quite a bit different when it's your own money.

Honestly, how would any of us feel if after buying an old money-pit type house, we were told by a group of architecture fans that we couldn't repair or modernize or even demolish the thing because it happened to be a nice example of Queen Anne, or it happened to be designed by a protege of Louis Sullivan. Put some of your own money in the deal, and it is truly head-spinning how quickly some of those concerns become simply academic.

I think BVictor proposed a perfectly sensible solution. It was not a "hands tied" approach that was saying they could do nothing with the old post office, it was an idea that said, "Hey, let's make this old building useful by tastefully modernizing it and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater."

What's missing from your equation is the city landmarking process. Yes, it is unrealistic to expect developers to do any of these things on their own. But not because they are concerned with their livelihoods - it's because they are concerned, generally speaking, with getting as damn filthy rich as they possibly can with the least amount of effort. The City's landmarks people are very generous (too generous?) with allowing alterations that still make the developers plenty of money and keep the buildings intact from the outside. That's just about their only requirement: don't mess with the exterior in a way that's visible to the public. That would apply to your Queen Anne or to the Post Office.

I think the courtyard idea is a great one (it would have been my preference too). It's been applied with great success (preservation-wise and finance-wise) to projects from the old Wards building along the river to smaller loft buildings in the West Loop.

By the way - to be fair - I should add that I am very happy it will still be standing, and glad it has found some use. It just could have been even better with some government involvement.

[spyguy]

We kind of had a discussion about this on SSC. Here were three examples I gave of what they could do with the post office without significant demolition.

Oxo Tower with restaurant on top


Bankside Power Station - Tate Modern


Battersea Power Station

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Norsider

Just playing devil's advocate here, but exactly what is it that you think about when it comes to your livelihood?
.

When I become a multi-million dollar developer, ask me again...

[Jaroslaw]

Weird that no one's ever thought of turning that building into an art space... the AIC has tens of thousands of paintings that never get shown because they've got no wall space... get them some floors... then rent some floors to art galleries... turn two floors into parking on the inside, lofts on the outside... and you're done.

[honte]

Proposed helipad stirs neighbor flap
Group questions wind currents for planned hospital

March 18, 2007
BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/302422,CST-NWS-hosp18s1.article

Children's Memorial Hospital's plan to put a heliport atop its soon-to-be-built $800 million hospital in Streeterville is running into turbulence from area residents concerned about landings in wind tunnel-like conditions.
"This is a different community than Lincoln Park. There are many tall buildings," said Rosalie Harris, executive director of the Streeterville Organization for Active Residents. "We need to be convinced that the helipad is safe in our community."

SOAR is equally concerned about institutional overload in a noisy and congested area with 25,000 residents and 8,000 more units under construction.

The area is already home to Northwestern University, Northwestern Memorial Hospital and the Rehabilitation Institute. Northwestern has also bought the nearby Veterans Administration Hospital, but hasn't announced specific plans for that site, which is still being leased by the VA.

A "planned development" quietly introduced at Wednesday's City Council meeting calls for the new 275-bed Children's Memorial Hospital to be built at 215-233 East Chicago. The 22-acre site is just west of Northwestern's soon-to-open Prentice Women's Hospital.

The new Children's would include no new parking and would rely on "existing parking facilities" in the area, according to a letter filed by the hospital's attorney.

"If they're looking to add to the driving population in Streeterville, there clearly would need to be more parking," Harris said.

"The synergy of all of these institutions give us pause. We understand their wanting to create a world-class medical center in Streeterville. We have tremendous respect for Children's and their mission. We don't want to say, 'Go away.' But until some of these questions are answered, we can't green light it."


'Never been any incident'
Children's has had a heliport for more than 15 years at its current home in Lincoln Park to receive critically ill patients and organs for transplant and "there has never been any incident," said hospital spokeswoman Julie Pesch.
Helicopter transports routinely total 75 a year, 70 percent of them during the day. Northwestern Memorial Hospital does not have its own helipad.

"Regarding the wind current due to surrounding buildings, we would build a larger landing surface and include a weather station [to measure] wind direction and velocity. If it was too windy or the conditions were unsafe, we wouldn't land. My God, we have patients," Pesch said.


Outgrew Lincoln Park site
The application stipulates that the heliport on the roof of the 23-story hospital would be used "only for medical and surgical emergencies [including organ transplants]" and only under certain conditions.
Mayor Daley on Saturday would not say if he supports the heliport proposal, only that it needs to be reviewed.

"We have to look at it very carefully, dealing with the noise and just like anything else, the safety of the area," Daley said. "We just have to review it."

As for congestion concerns, Pesch said the hospital has hired a consultant to do a parking and traffic study in conjunction with SOAR. The zoning application mentions "promoting the availability of campus shuttles and trolleys to employees and visitors" and offering "incentives" to employees who use public transit.

Children's Memorial opened in 1882 in a cottage at Belden and Halsted. For the last 50 years, the hospital has been located at Lincoln and Fullerton on a cramped 14-acre campus that's forced to turn away more than 200 children a year.

Last spring, the hospital ended an exhaustive search for a new home by announcing plans to build a new hospital in Streeterville.

[VivaLFuego]

I'm not sure what parking facilities are like in that area, but even I would agree that there should be adequate nearby parking for a hospital facility. 23-story hospital though, I dig it.

[the urban politician]

^ If they get forced to build a parking garage, I just hope it occupies a vacant lot (or is underground) as opposed to knocking down an historic building for it.

History shows that these idiotic NIMBY groups have little sympathy for historic structures and would rather see more parking than pretty much anything else.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ 23 stories for the new Children's Hospital - very nice...


As for the proposed Post Office redevelopment - I really think (just as in the majority of redevelopment cases) econimic viability is one (out of several) legitimate factors that need to play into the decision. In this particular case, I'm sorry but some amount of demolition is necessary. What needs to be stressed is to minimize the impact on the architecturally or historically significant aspects. Clearly a substantial amount of interior demo is necessary. I believe that in this case some demo that is visible to the exterior may even by necessary. Hopefully, it will be the minimum necessary and the end result is a very tastefull alteration.

On to other news. These projects (as was obvious from the posted descriptions) showed up on Bidclerk.com in the last week or so:

1) Union Station Mixed-Use Vertical Expansion. Estimated start date of June 2008. I have heard from a quality source that a lot of progress is being made on this project (especially in the form of office pre-leasing). However, I would not call this one a done deal yet by any means, as I don't think any leases have actually been signed yet. I also don't think any hotel deals have been finalize as of yet.

2) Walton on the Park. Estimated start date July 2007. This confirms the targeted date for groundbreaking that someone - BVic? - had previously gathered from the sales center.

3) Randolph Tower Adaptive Re-use. Estimated start date this month!! I'm very excited that this redevelopment is getting under way. I had noticed in the last week more visible preparations were being made for the start of this large renovation project. I can't wait for this one to be finished - I hope Village Green continues their high-quality historic renovations in the city with this project, and I'm also glad that the legal issues which have popped up with their recent Lake and Wabash project don't seem to be impacting Randolph Tower moving forward. Also, I can't wait for the positive impact that the hundreds of new residents in this tower will have on the neighborhood.

4) Glashaus. Estimated start date June 2007. I'm glad to see this one is expected to move forward very quickly. Hopefully sales have been strong in the opening weeks. Has anyone heard a sold percentage at this project. I'd imagine the developers would be happy with 30-40% sold at this stage given the market conditions. I think Glashaus will be a great addition to the South Loop and I'm happy there is a decent amount (over 12,000 sf) of retail planned.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by honte

Proposed helipad stirs neighbor flap
Group questions wind currents for planned hospital

March 18, 2007
BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/302422,CST-NWS-hosp18s1.article

Children's Memorial Hospital's plan to put a heliport atop its soon-to-be-built $800 million hospital in Streeterville is running into turbulence from area residents concerned about landings in wind tunnel-like conditions.
"This is a different community than Lincoln Park. There are many tall buildings," said Rosalie Harris, executive director of the Streeterville Organization for Active Residents. "We need to be convinced that the helipad is safe in our community."
SOAR is equally concerned about institutional overload in a noisy and congested area with 25,000 residents and 8,000 more units under construction.


'Never been any incident'
Children's has had a heliport for more than 15 years at its current home in Lincoln Park to receive critically ill patients and organs for transplant and "there has never been any incident," said hospital spokeswoman Julie Pesch.
Helicopter transports routinely total 75 a year, 70 percent of them during the day. Northwestern Memorial Hospital does not have its own helipad.

"Regarding the wind current due to surrounding buildings, we would build a larger landing surface and include a weather station [to measure] wind direction and velocity. If it was too windy or the conditions were unsafe, we wouldn't land. My God, we have patients," Pesch said.

.

[SOAR]"Yea like screw the extremely sick kids, the ones that need transplants and burn victims, especially the critically injured. Helicopters are so loud and we are so unlike Lincoln Park. We need our peace and quiet. We deserve it we lived here before most of these sick kids were born anyway."


Assholes.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Yeah, the helicopter arguement is complete bullshit... Seriously, if Coast Guard Helicopters (which are often similar models to Flight For Life helicopters) can fly during hurricanes and the worst of the worst storms, then how would landing one in a city be hazardous in any way. They wouldn't build a helipad if they didn't think it were safe, I mean their job is to do things that lengthen life, not to build dangerous object...

Besides, winds wouldn't be affected by most of the buildings in the area at 23+ stories up, honestly, its not like there is any wind tunneling up that high...


And about that post office, I know it will need some demolition, but honestly, knocking off half of the middle section? That seems a bit extreme. Couldn't they just demolish in the middle where it wouldn't ruin the aestetics of the building?

[pip]

Now Soar is worried about wind currents. Jesus christ what's next? The percent sugar in a soda sold in a local corner store as a reason to block construction of something.

[honte]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ If they get forced to build a parking garage, I just hope it occupies a vacant lot (or is underground) as opposed to knocking down an historic building for it.

History shows that these idiotic NIMBY groups have little sympathy for historic structures and would rather see more parking than pretty much anything else.

Yeah. I wish there were a way to make a parking "podium" in the back of the property, obscured in the front by patient rooms or something else active... Then we might have a 30-story hospital on our hands.

After all, the taller it gets, the less "helicopter impact" there would be... NIMBIES

[VivaLFuego]

I'm surprised that people in LP seem eager to get rid of the hospital.....it brings tons of jobs and visitors to the area and helps the local economy to be an all-day neighborhood instead of just a bedroom, commuter neighborhood. I wouldn't be surprised if the local economy takes a hit with reduced retail sales, more vacant storefronts, less transit usage, etc etc after the hospital moves.

Of course the buildings will probably get torn and replaced with some shit-sandwich low density gated townhome community crap. Ugh.

[Jaroslaw]

I always hated the UC hospitals' helicopter when I was down there, the noise strafed half of Hyde Park... how did we get to the point where quality of life issues are NOT a valid concern and can't even be mentioned? "Deal with it, it's a city" shouldn't work as a blanket excuse for anything and everything...

[SolarWind]

Originally Posted by Jaroslaw

I always hated the UC hospitals' helicopter when I was down there, the noise strafed half of Hyde Park... how did we get to the point where quality of life issues are NOT a valid concern and can't even be mentioned? "Deal with it, it's a city" shouldn't work as a blanket excuse for anything and everything...

I agree that the topic should be available for discussion, but come on, it's to help sick kids. How can anyone be against that? It seems very selfish on SOAR's part to oppose it. Besides, the article states that the "helicopter transports routinely total 75 a year, 70 percent of them during the day". It's not like the helicopter will be used for an hourly sightseeing tour.

[Chi_Coruscant]

I knew the new location is a big mistake the moment when the Children's Hospital announced the move to Streeterville to be near Northwestern Hospital. I have expected that snotty SOAR will be complaining about siren noises and traffic clogging the small streets. But I didn't expect they would go so far being selfish in allowing helipad be limited to emergency basis. Children's Hospital should have picked Illinois Medical District. The land is plentiful for everything they need to accommodate the children in needs. Even the state was willing to throw in financial incentives. The Children's needs should not be compromised to cater SOAR's issues.

[Kngkyle]

Someone should go make a copy of this thread on Skyscrapercity, they have a new City Compilations forum for this. Gotta keep the Chicago influence alive there as well.