The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[nero1979]

The city itself is dropping in population, but the outskirts are growing, especially the Kennebecasis Valley area including the business sector. I believe there was a study done if the two communities of Rothesay and Quispamsis joined together it would be the 4th largest city in New Brunswick behind Frederiction, Moncton, and Saint John. Also, Eventhough the whole CMA and city population seems to be decreasing, its becuase Saint John is an industrial city with the lose of the "shipyard" and no real industry job growth in the past few years, people are gonna go to where the jobs are ie Alberta. But, hopefully the refinery, Point lepreau refurb. and other smaller projects will turn things around!!!

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

okay....i know everybody here is gonna piss on me for asking this, but i really dont mean any offence at all.....ive just wondering how a city (not the cma, but the city) can go from 81,000 in 1981 to maybe 72,000 in 2006 (still waiting for those #s) and still have development....i mean yeah its growing now, which is great, but isnt there enough space in the current buildings in the city? i mean you would think there would be a lot of vacancies...i dunno it just doesnt make sence to me at all...dont get me wrong i think the development is great (the new cruise terminal looks sweet!) but could someone please explain this to me? i think maybe the cma/city thing might have something to do with it, but i dunno...again i really dont mean to offend, just wondering...im still kinda in a fog as to how the whole grand scheme of developments in any city works

Saint John does not have Dieppe to hike their population. Moncton should say thank you to Acadians . .

[nero1979]

canadaeast.com reports the followin census numbers for 2006:

Fredericton: Fredericton 50,535 (2006), 47,580 (2001) increase 6.2%
Moncton: Moncton 64,128 (2006), 61,046 (2001) increase 5.0%
Saint John: Saint John 68,043 (2006), 69,661 (2001) decrease 2.3%

Eventhough it looks like SJ survived as the largest city in NB, It looks like Moncton is the largest CMA.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by nero1979

canadaeast.com reports the followin census numbers for 2006:

Fredericton: Fredericton 50,535 (2006), 47,580 (2001) increase 6.2%
Moncton: Moncton 64,128 (2006), 61,046 (2001) increase 5.0%
Saint John: Saint John 68,043 (2006), 69,661 (2001) decrease 2.3%

Eventhough it looks like SJ survived as the largest city in NB, It looks like Moncton is the largest CMA.

who cares that saint john is the largest city lol thats just because its area is more than twice the size

saint john city area: 315.49 sq kms
moncton city area: 141.17 sq kms

moncton beats out saint john for Urban area #s and CMA #s

name (type) pop <percent change> (national rank)

Moncton (CMA) 126,424 <6.5%> (29)
Saint John (CMA) 122, 389 <-0.2%> (32)

Moncton (Urban Area) 97,063 <7.3%> (30)
Saint John (Urban Area) 90,016 <-0.9> (32)

I also find it funny that included in Saint Johns CMA is 3,359.55 sq kms
and in monctons there is only 2,405.91 sq kms

but hey saint john looks like its turning around, i mean -0.2 is alot better than -2.6! and with all the new projects the province could have SJ as champ in 2011 who knows

[ErickMontreal]

At this rate, the french citizens rate will reach 50 % of Moncton city population by 2015.

The new name could be Metro Acadian! lol

[nero1979]

who cares??? I care, I live here and its not great news when the population continues to decrease.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666

At this rate, the french citizens rate will reach 50 % of Moncton city population by 2015.

The new name could be Metro Acadian! lol

lol that would be cool, we would be a staple of what canada is supposed to be...but i think moncton is still far from that ratio sadly...

heres the breakdown of the 3 communities as far as population gains in monctons CMA:

Dieppe - 3614
Moncton - 3082
Riverview - 822

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by nero1979

who cares??? I care, I live here and its not great news when the population continues to decrease.

At least, SJ looks like the provincial largest city yet

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by nero1979

who cares??? I care, I live here and its not great news when the population continues to decrease.

Who said it was great news that the population is decreasing? i think its terrible, but like i said, there are many huge projects on SJs table now, and if it plays its cards right it could soon be gaining population like its yesterdays news

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

lol that would be cool, we would be a staple of what canada is supposed to be...but i think moncton is still far from that ratio sadly...

heres the breakdown of the 3 communities as far as population gains in monctons CMA:

Dieppe - 3614
Moncton - 3082
Riverview - 822

Agree with you, Acadians is really one of the reasons why Moncton grows quickly.

[nero1979]

Well you said who cares because SJ is larger in area etc, but lets leave it at that, k. Don't want to start another argument between SJ and Moncton.

cheers

[kwajo]

I think it's funny the way the rivalry between Moncton and Saint John works, at least for me. For example, I get riled up about the debate easily and I'll make fun of, and put down, Moncton until the cows come home, but that's only when talking to people from New Brunswick. As soon as the discussion gets wider, and includes people from outside the province, I'll defend anything in New Brunswick til the death - even Moncton. Then if the discussion gets wider, I'll defend anything in the Maritimes with all my heart - even if I often hold a grudge against Halifax for thinking it is the only thing that matters in the world.

Anyone else do something similar? Like you stu_pendousmat2, if you're talking to people from outside the province and SJ comes up, do you defend it, even though Moncton is your horse in this race?

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Anyone else do something similar? Like you stu_pendousmat2, if you're talking to people from outside the province and SJ comes up, do you defend it, even though Moncton is your horse in this race?

I completely do....I really dont hate saint john at all...I just love moncton a lot...so it seems like i do, as far as im concerened we are all NBers and thats all that really matters to me, I love this province and i intend to stay here for all my life. I actually feel bad for saint john, i mean you guys have been hit hard by the changing times, and thats not right, i mean its a great city with an amazing history, and that deserves to be preserved. I love the fact that the city seems to be about to hit an up-swing, if the new refinery goes through the city will be flooded with new people, and then there is the point lepreau refurbishment which will do the same...of course these developments wont have such a hugely massive impact in the long term unless the city gets its rear in gear big time and makes the most of this amazing oppertunity...and i believe they can do that. sorry if i seem to be happy about saint john not being the largest city anymore, but ive kinda been waiting for this day for 5 years now lol...but hey in another 5 it could be back again.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

I completely do....I really dont hate saint john at all...I just love moncton a lot...so it seems like i do, as far as im concerened we are all NBers and thats all that really matters to me, I love this province and i intend to stay here for all my life. I actually feel bad for saint john, i mean you guys have been hit hard by the changing times, and thats not right, i mean its a great city with an amazing history, and that deserves to be preserved. I love the fact that the city seems to be about to hit an up-swing, if the new refinery goes through the city will be flooded with new people, and then there is the point lepreau refurbishment which will do the same...of course these developments wont have such a hugely massive impact in the long term unless the city gets its rear in gear big time and makes the most of this amazing oppertunity...and i believe they can do that. sorry if i seem to be happy about saint john not being the largest city anymore, but ive kinda been waiting for this day for 5 years now lol...but hey in another 5 it could be back again.

I do racall Moncton going through some pretty hard times back iin the late 80'S early 90's.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I do racall Moncton going through some pretty hard times back iin the late 80'S early 90's.

It sure did, when the CN shops left the city in 1988 it was devestating for the city...but it took less than 10 years to get back in gear and it soon became a growth force to be reconed with...how they did it I have no idea lol..thats why the citys motto is "Resurgo" or "I Rise Again"

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

It sure did, when the CN shops left the city in 1988 it was devestating for the city...but it took less than 10 years to get back in gear and it soon became a growth force to be reconed with...how they did it I have no idea lol..thats why the citys motto is "Resurgo" or "I Rise Again"

The reasons are quite simple, both Franck Mckenna, Bernard Lord have made more for Moncton than any other area in the province.

[MTL Lucas]

Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666

The reasons are quite simple, both Franck Mckenna, Bernard Lord have made more for Moncton than any other area in the province.

That certainly is part of it, but Moncton also took advantage of everything it could - its geographic position, the lack of adequate air service in NB, its bilingualism. Saint John should most certainly do the same - and should also follow the lesson and take advantage of its cosiness with the current Premier.

In the latest census, it is something of a miracle that Saint John didn't shrink - it stayed about the same size. Considering that this is a marked improvement from the last census, I think that these results, in tandem with recent economic announcements for the city, show that SJ is on the right path. The city was never going to go from losing thousands of people to gaining thousands in one census, I think we can see this as a necessary step on the way back to growth.

[Smevo]

Sifting through the census, it seems encouraging for the Maritimes as a whole, with the one exception of Northern New Brunswick. This time, all three provinces posted nominal population increases (though small) instead of two declines and one increase. Also, some areas that were losing population have turned around, others lost less than in the previous intercensal period, and most that gained either had similar or larger gains (with Dieppe being the extreme gainer with over 24%). Quispamsis also posted a large gain of around 10%. It also seems fair to say once again that Moncton and Saint John are even, especially considering future outlooks and the possibility that Saint John will experience a boom fueled by the energy sector in the next 10 years.

As for the dissing cities among other Maritimers but defending the same cities as the discussion includes more people from outside the Maritimes, though I try not to diss cities at all here, I am definitely guilty of this is common conversation. I rag on Halifax as much as any other Cape Bretoner in common conversation, but will defend it till the end in discussion with anyone from outside Atlantic Canada. I also have a soft spot for Saint John as it shares a similar industrial history to Sydney, but will still make fun of it among other Maritimers and defend it against non-Maritimers.

Point of this post, the census is encouraging for the Maritimes as a whole, even though there were no surprises in it for me (considering I get inside information about many areas not limited to published news stories). For example, Saint John remaining relatively stable indicates to me that it experienced growth at some point during the intercensal period, and is in a good position as the developments mentioned in this thread start to become reality. Similarly, the single-year population growth in Sydney last year isn't noticed to the uninformed looking at the 5-year period decline, but the slower decline combined with this recent growth and the future developments and current change in real-estate trends all point to the turn-around becoming a reality for the city.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by MTL Lucas

That certainly is part of it, but Moncton also took advantage of everything it could - its geographic position, the lack of adequate air service in NB, its bilingualism. Saint John should most certainly do the same - and should also follow the lesson and take advantage of its cosiness with the current Premier.

In the latest census, it is something of a miracle that Saint John didn't shrink - it stayed about the same size. Considering that this is a marked improvement from the last census, I think that these results, in tandem with recent economic announcements for the city, show that SJ is on the right path. The city was never going to go from losing thousands of people to gaining thousands in one census, I think we can see this as a necessary step on the way back to growth.

Agree with you

In the orther hand, when I saw Moncton and specially Frederiction population that increase considerably with population that come from rural area, Saint John have to be worrying about that. At some point, they need to focus to change New-Brunswick citizen perceptions about Saint John. Saint John is a such wonderful city, with his amazing streetcapes that include one of the most important collections of heritage buildings in the country. They provide a nice waterfronts, the only urban feeling in the province and a great coastal life as well.

The new refinery will be a short terme solution that will restore the last demographic collapses. In my mind Saint John have to hike his white-collar job rate. UNB Saint John could be the key. They have a significant international students rate, they should make sure those students will be able to get a job and stay in town as well. They need to provide this kind oppotunities, the provincial government is a major player in that issus. In the last campaign, the Liberal government has specified that they will focus on economic growth : they have to get those things occur.

However, Its always easy to put on the table those kind of solutions but in the real world its quite hard to get those things happen

I will emulate the Montreal mayor slogan in the last campaign.

Go SAINT JOHN !!

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666

Agree with you

In the orther hand, when I saw Moncton and specially Frederiction population that increase considerably with population that come from rural area

I dunno if you read the artice i posted in the moncton group but it said that in 2001-2006 northern NB decreased by 3000, whereas moncton area grew by 8000, so not all the growth is from that area as most people think