Edmonton Construction 5

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by itom 987

^ We know that, but for some reason the developers don't. It seems like we are being ignored because we are ugly.

and hence, opportunity found.....

[rapid_business]

ughh... slow Christmas posting coupled with the same cyclical topic we cover at least twice a week, equals a brief lame post, a glass of egg nog and me turing off the computer until the 2nd.

[mynewt]

I don't know if anyone has posted this anywhere, but here's the Focus Edmonton City Plan survey:
http://www.focusedmonton.ca/survey.php

[feepa]

Boredom on a really slow day at work has me creating this as a random idea



Basically removing the downtown airport, having the NLRT ride through it, a new freeway to downtown via kingsway (then using 105st through downtown, and maybe a new bridge to connect to calgary trail/gateway blvd) and what I would fill in for the rest of the missing airport

[CMD UW]

Anyways, in an attempt to take this self-loathing discussion that many forumers have turned to, I decided to take some shots of the Affordable Housing project on 95 Street. I must admit, this is looking better than some for-profit developments. Note the extensive use of clear glass.








Hey, a design that doesn't neglect the alley. Other architects please take note, buildings have 4 sides!!!





I also took some shots of the renovated Artshab on 106 Street and 102 Ave.

[Coldrsx]

in van right now and over at UBC went for a walk to see my buds new townhouse.......good god yes. Ill get pics if i can.

[GreenSPACE]

Originally Posted by SHOtime

I wasn't counting JP...minor detail.

The essence of what I'm saying though, is that it's been 1.5 (3 since Hampton house but lets ignore that for now) years since the icon was first announced, which i consider to mark the era of feasibilty for a project of that scale. We all know we are seeing a huge undersupply of that product, yet just about nobody is attemping to correct that.

If nobody is willing to get involved and satisfy the demand for condo's, are we going to expect the same thing in the office market. Years of significant sized projects stalled, in limbo or rumoured, despite being profitable.

There are MANY factors you fail to realize. It is not a simple black-and-white issue. I am getting tired of people talking about things they really know nothing about. Sure it's fun to ponder what "could" or "should" be done, but I can tell why people are getting tired of this particular thread...same old talk. Get with it already...Edmonton is NOT skyscraper central.

Just a FEW factors that prevent tall condos or offices from being built in downtown Edmonton:
- labour shortage
- labour costs
- sprawl: Edmonton just keeps getting wider and fatter...no reason to build up.
- only 10-15% of North Americans really want to live downtown anyhow
- commodity prices/material cost
- lack of a skyscraper-quality glass manufacturer in Edmonton
- oil prices
- zoning regulations that don't work for a particular site
- developers that don't care to take risks
- lack of head offices moving to the city
- most of "office" and Edmonton economy is suburban and being built in new suburban business parks
- difficulty of doing main floor retail downtown...has taken 25 years for downtown to recover from drain that is WEM
- anxiety about the future
- developers that don't believe in Edmonton for highrise condos
- problems getting concrete and steel considering all the other infracstucture projects on the go. ei. AH drive construction push caused delays in concrete deliveries of 3-6 months
- problems getting a general contractor to even bid on the project...many projects are 6month to a year behind schedule as the backlog builds.
- land prices that are pushing developers profit margins down
- politics
- long term planning that has some of these built in the next 10-15 years...rather than now
- forgettableness of downtown does not inspire suburban developers to see what potential downtown has
- land owners that are sitting on property...for like 50 years
- land owners that are making more money for their parking lot than selling it
- geographic situation
- airport overlay (superficially)
- development of Plans such as Downtown East, North Edge Study, update of Capital City Downtown Plan causes many stakeholders to take a "wait and see" approach
- etc, etc, etc

So stop bitching and start thinking!

[GreenSPACE]

Originally Posted by onishenko

Q: Where is the rendering? It is public? Let's get it up here.

It's apparently available for viewing in the City Planning office. Someone's just gotta go there. I'm sure it'll be in the condo guide soon.

[itom 987]

^ Thanks for the post above GreenSPACE, it's about time we had a detailed explanation as to why we are seeing a lack of activity in downtown. I know this arguement is getting boring for some of you but I; like you, want the best for Edmonton and that is why I complain every once in a while.

[CDE]

Originally Posted by GreenSPACE

So stop bitching and start thinking!

Kill em all. Let God sort em out.

[Atlguy33]

Some good points, Greenspace.

Every now and then we should look on the bright side. Edmonton already does have a very respectable skyline for a city of just over 1 million metro population. The number of office towers in the city is probably right at average or better, and the number of high-rise residential towers in E-town is already WAY above average for a North American city its size that is not located on a coastline and has no natural barriers to urban sprawl. I'm sure the river is to thank for that.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

and hence, opportunity found.....

What I'd rather see is a large creation of 12-20 stories as opposed to a handful (6-8) of 20-30 story structures. It would suit the skyline and the streetview itself. The developers should be concerning themselves about building better looking structures than just simply bigger.

[GreenSPACE]

Originally Posted by itom 987

^ Thanks for the post above GreenSPACE, it's about time we had a detailed explanation as to why we are seeing a lack of activity in downtown. I know this arguement is getting boring for some of you but I; like you, want the best for Edmonton and that is why I complain every once in a while.

Yes, I am too willing to complain once and a while...that is necessary sometimes. I think it is more helpful to discuss why we aren't seeing a large number of office towers being built in this the biggest boom ever, rather than complain or wish for something that just isn't gonna happen. I think there have been great achievements for our city in the last few years and I hate to see those accomplishments go unnoticed just because our skyline does not reflect it in terms of large falic symbols - especially in these stupid comparisons with Calgary.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

What I'd rather see is a large creation of 12-20 stories as opposed to a handful (6-8) of 20-30 story structures. It would suit the skyline and the streetview itself. The developers should be concerning themselves about building better looking structures than just simply bigger.

12-20 around the downtown but not in it.....there we need 20-30+.....

[CanadianCentaur]

As far as new 30+ storey towers besides the Icon and a massive condo construction boom downtown are concerned, I'm sure Edmonton's time will come. I don't know when since I admit I'm no expert, but the time will come. Patience is the key word. Patience.

True, I don't expect big changes when I get back from Vancouver, but Edmonton is like an old friend I'm glad to see anytime and that I can talk about just anything to.

[Wooster]

^ There needs to be a catalyst. If it is not happening in times of such incredible economic prosperity, there seems less hope when things slow down. There needs to be some sort of intervention(s)

- Big changes in planning policy (read the Beltline ARP from Calgary - it has been a catalyst)Also read centre city draft plan.There needs to be a very clear vision and plan. It gives developers and investors confidence in the area, knowing where it is going.
- Some public realm improvements
- Some office growth
- incentives perhaps
- something like a multipurpose megaproject like the arena


Just some ideas.

[Coldrsx]

^The new downtown plan is coming out very soon and as a participant in the process of redoing it, trust me, it will be MUCH MUCH better than what we have now. A few of us on here actually assisted in it and from what we saw going around, it looks progressive, creative, and somewhat inspiring in certain areas.

What we need are developers who value the core as a canvas, not as a bank machine.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^The new downtown plan is coming out very soon and as a participant in the process of redoing it, trust me, it will be MUCH MUCH better than what we have now. A few of us on here actually assisted in it and from what we saw going around, it looks progressive, creative, and somewhat inspiring in certain areas.

What we need are developers who value the core as a canvas, not as a bank machine.

Are you able to shed any details? or give us a rough time line when we can expect to find out more?
Very soon could mean years... at least on this forum

[SunCoaster]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

What I'd rather see is a large creation of 12-20 stories as opposed to a handful (6-8) of 20-30 story structures. It would suit the skyline and the streetview itself. The developers should be concerning themselves about building better looking structures than just simply bigger.

/\ Come on Edmonton think BIG for a change ... Edmonton has lots of 'low' high rises (10 - 20 stories) all the way from 105 Street to 124 Street ... so, tis well past time for 20 stories to be the MINIMUM .... 30 story minimum even better ... and, dare Edmonton dream of some 40 story + towers ... particularly in the core !!!

Not trying to create controversy but, construction of new 10 -20 story buildings in Calgary and Vancouver are hardly even noticed these days with attention instead focusing on 30 - 40 -50 - 60+ story buildings ... so, does Edmonton consider itself in the same league as those 2 cities ... or, does Edmonton consider itself in the same league of much smaller Western Canadian cities (eg. Regina, Saskatoon, Victoria etc.) where construction of new 10 - 20 story buildings are big deal?

[Coldrsx]

^a nice 15-20 storey id take in a second over a mediocre, sasso cough, 30 storey.