North America's "most unique" Costco opens in Vancouver

[vid]

Originally Posted by CGII

You have to understand, vid, that there is more to CostCo and big box retailers than just the buidlings that affect the enviroment, economy, and culture, namely the sources for their products. Industry, labour, etc.

Really? You think all of those workers in China are kept in cages, paid 2 cents a month and beaten when they don't follow order?

People in third world countries are glad to have those jobs. (Most of the time, I am not denying that terrible conditions exist. - They do, but they aren't the norm) Many people would kill to have those jobs, because in many cases it is the only way their family can get by. Yes, it is sad to see people living in those conditions. But as those countries develop (and those manufacturing plants are part of the development. Look at America, Canada, and UK. At one point, we, too, had child labourers, sweat shops and low wages! Slums even!) those 'sweat shops' are replaced with better working conditions and better wages and a better living environment. China is improving, and it wouldn't be in the shape it's in if it wasn't for us having made everything there.

They are, from what I can see, a somewhat necessary evil. But I'm not saying that they're are 'absolutely spiffy awesome good neato' - I am saying that they aren't as bad as people say, there are many benefits, it will get better for them.

[miketoronto]

We can have COSTCO'S. But they should be left to the outlying areas. Not central cities. And for sure not our downtowns.

We should be able to have one place in our cities where the "real" city is kept, and not turned into a suburban wasteland.

Downtown Vancouvers hould be promoting farmers markets, homegrown business, etc. Not a COSTCO.

I am very surprised to be honest on a city forum how loving you guys are to places like COSTCO.

The very cities you guys find interesting, would never be as great as they are, if these cities were built around COSTCO'S, etc.

The very streets, culture, etc was built by people and business in the city.

Yes it seems weird, but where people buy food does have an impact on the very vibe of the city.

[He11razor]

Originally Posted by CGII

Your point? So what if I hyperextend a cliche? It's the absolute truth and his argument is moot.

awww nothing. It's perfectly acceptable to interject the holocaust; which involved the murder of 6 million jews, into a conversation about some big store downtown, even if it's true! carry on.

[vid]

«We can have COSTCO'S. But they should be left to the outlying areas. Not central cities. And for sure not our downtowns.»

So, you're saying, 'We can have CostCo, but only if it contributes to urban sprawl.'

«We should be able to have one place in our cities where the "real" city is kept, and not turned into a suburban wasteland. »

You DO know that this CostCo is on the edge of Vancouver's main Downtown, right? You DO know that it's stuffed under a building, right? Honestly, once the hype about it's existence dies down, no one will really know that it's there.

«Downtown Vancouver should be promoting farmers markets, homegrown business, etc. Not a COSTCO.»

What about both? Business is business. Aren't CostCo's managed by local people? My manager at Safeway was born and raised here. We give back to the city through charity (A fair bit of it). CostCo doesn't do that? I think it does..

«I am very surprised to be honest on a city forum how loving you guys are to places like COSTCO.»

I know people that live right in the downtown core that mainly shop at Walmart. Getting a good deal on what you're buying is a normal desire for many people. When is the last time a Pizza Hut sent out pot with it's deliveries? I can think of a few locally owned pizzerias that have done just that.

«The very cities you guys find interesting, would never be as great as they are, if these cities were built around COSTCO'S, etc.»

VANCOUVER WASN'T BUILD AROUND A COSTCO! The CostCo was added to the basement of a new highrise development located beside a large stadium!

«The very streets, culture, etc was built by people and business in the city.»

and having one CostCo in an area a good 4 square kilometres is going to ruin the atmosphere of downtown Vancouver? Overlap that CostCo to ours and where downtown Vancouver would be is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 bush. Gee, I sure am sad that the CostCo being there killed the culture of that BUSH!

«Yes it seems weird, but where people buy food does have an impact on the very vibe of the city.»

Where do the food suppliers buy their food to sell? Go into ANY locally owned grocery store here, and they sell pre-packaged stovetop stuffing. They sell Pepsi! They sell apples! The same apples! From BC! Of all places! Wow! Same brand and everything! DEAR LORD!! Look! They carry the same brands of cookies! What the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 is the difference?

[miketoronto]

Montreal has the right idea. Click the link below. Thats what our downtowns and cities should be promoting and building on. Not COSTCO'S.


http://www.marchespublics-mtl.com/en-CA/Acc_MarchesExpress.aspx?CatID=1

Mission

" To give Montrealers access to the products of the Earth in public markets that reflect their identity.” That is the mission adopted by the Corporation de gestion des marchés publics de Montréal (CGMPM) and its approximately 215 members, producers and retailers when it was founded in 1993. Whether they be in the east, north central, west or southwest parts of the city, these public markets are at the heart of their communities and evolve along with them.

[miketoronto]

VID if you believe in COSTCO thats great.

But I will not promote the further suburbanization and killing of downtown culture.

I believe a COSTCO downtown is bad, and I will not change my view on that.

Cities are not about COSTCO'S.

Cities are about places like Atwater Market and Jean Talon Market in Montreal, Kensington Market and St Lawrence Market in Toronto, Eastern Market in Detroit, etc.

Those places helped shape the central areas of their cities. They are places.

COSTCO will never do that.

And I see nothing wrong with cities standing up for the very things that actually make the city a great place.

COSTCO adds nothing to our cities.

As if you need a COSTCO to get a cheap TV.

In real cities with real downtowns left, the downtown will have an electronic area where tons of electronic stores are clumped together and offer amazing deals. Just like market areas for food.

The problem is we are killing off the very micro economies we had in our downtowns by allowing COSTCO'S in.

You guys make it sound as if there was no deals before COSTCO.
When cities actually had vibrant downtowns not overtaken with multinational chains, they actually had warehouse discount areas where you got things at a good price. My mom has told me about how she use to shop in that very kind of area in downtown NYC. Toronto, Montreal, and other cities still have some of that left in our downtowns.

But how long will be have it left, if we keep letting COSTCO'S in?????????

Real downtowns use to have a mix of everything. Now we are killing off that very cluster of business that made the downtown have a mix of all that stuff.

And ontop of that, who pays to shop somewhere???

Sorry I don't pay a fee to be allowed to shop somewhere.

[Segun]

edit, wrong post

[vid]

"I will not change my view on that."

Neither will I. This whole argument is a waste of our time. And for the record, I wouldn't be to happy with a CostCo in our downtown either. It would take up way too much room.

Truce?

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by CGII

That's a rather silly excuse for it. Hitler could've said the same to justify the holocaust!

So... your comparing a super-abundance of all consumer staples that sees even the poorest of westerners suffer obesity to the holocaust?

yeah, I am sure the silly one!

[SHOFEAR]

Mike you constantly cream your pants over department stores like Eatons saying how they are so important to a core. I fail to see how a Costco with good street interaction is any different.

There have been numerous people ask you this (myslef twice) and you have not responded.

Ignoring whatever doesn't fit your half-🞵🞵🞵 logic again I see.

Yes, Costco's don't always support the local manufacture or producer, but does Eatons or Macy's? One day you complain about the ever increasing land gobbled up by our sprawl, but yet you have a problem with a department store built underneath high density condos, next to the skytrain I believe. Find a way to link a costco to an anecdote about your cousin or white flight and I just might go crazy.

[mhays]

Mike, why do you scream the name "COSTCO" every time? It's not an acronym and shouldn't be all-capitalized, no matter what their logo looks like.

[plinko]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

VID if you believe in BAY CO. thats great.

But I will not promote the further suburbanization and killing of downtown culture.

I believe a BAY CO. downtown is bad, and I will not change my view on that.

Cities are not about BAY CO.

Cities are about places like Atwater Market and Jean Talon Market in Montreal, Kensington Market and St Lawrence Market in Toronto, Eastern Market in Detroit, etc.

Those places helped shape the central areas of their cities. They are places.

BAY CO. will never do that.

And I see nothing wrong with cities standing up for the very things that actually make the city a great place.

BAY CO. adds nothing to our cities.

As if you need a BAY CO. to get a cheap TV.

In real cities with real downtowns left, the downtown will have an electronic area where tons of electronic stores are clumped together and offer amazing deals. Just like market areas for food.

The problem is we are killing off the very micro economies we had in our downtowns by allowing BAY CO. in.

You guys make it sound as if there was no deals before BAY CO.
When cities actually had vibrant downtowns not overtaken with multinational chains, they actually had warehouse discount areas where you got things at a good price. My mom has told me about how she use to shop in that very kind of area in downtown NYC. Toronto, Montreal, and other cities still have some of that left in our downtowns.

But how long will be have it left, if we keep letting BAY CO. in?????????

Real downtowns use to have a mix of everything. Now we are killing off that very cluster of business that made the downtown have a mix of all that stuff.

And ontop of that, who pays to shop somewhere???

Sorry I don't pay a fee to be allowed to shop somewhere.

There...now that post makes sense... Mike, why won't you answer the question? How is this ANY different than a department store? Name one better land use for this particular site. Nobody in this thread is arguing that it's OK to put up a 100K SF big box with a 300 car surface parking lot on a main pedestrian arterial. The point is that this particular site is well suited for this use and it likely has little negative impact on the overall retail health of DT Vancouver. (if anything it's positive because it keeps people from trekking to the burbs for all that stuff). And if you think everybody in the city can obviously afford (time and economic wise) to shop at all these little markets...you seriously have no clue. Try preaching to us once you actually have to pay rent and pay for your own food and have to worry about making ends meet.

[crooked rain]

Originally Posted by plinko

Try preaching to us once you actually have to pay rent and pay for your own food and have to worry about making ends meet.

Especially in downtown Vancouver where housing expenses to income is at the highest ratio in Canada. Something like over 50% of an average individual's income is spent on housing (a Vancouver forumer can correct me if that figure is wrong).

The Costco will not destroy corner stores and local markets because its location at the edge of downtown, outside of the financial district and aways from the densly populated west-end means it will not be convenient for running out to buy a litre of milk for most downtown residents. It may hurt the Safeway's and Sobey's of the world, but they are large companies and will get over a small market share loss in Vancouver.

[CGII]

Originally Posted by He11razor

awww nothing. It's perfectly acceptable to interject the holocaust; which involved the murder of 6 million jews, into a conversation about some big store downtown, even if it's true! carry on.

But I wasn't arguing the supermarket. I was arguing his reasoning.

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

So... your comparing a super-abundance of all consumer staples that sees even the poorest of westerners suffer obesity to the holocaust?

yeah, I am sure the silly one!

No, I'm not, I'm showing you how invalid your point was that Costco was good simply because other countries would enjoy having it. You might need to revisit some basic reading comprehension.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by vid

"You guys make it sound like if you don't shop there, you will be broke. "

No, we make it sound like if you don't shop there, you will be ripped off. Did you understand anything about my other post?

Vanderwees is a local egg company. They're on the edge of town, and they makes packs of eggs, one size has 18 eggs.

The prices are as follows:

Walmart: 2.89
Safeway and A&P: 3.18
Quality Market (Locally owned): 3.39
Mac's: 3.69
Hutch's Variety (Locally Owned): 3.99

Now, where would you go?

I would go through 18 eggs in about 3 weeks, so lets see here...
Walmart: 96 cents a week
Safeway: 1.06 dollars a week
Quality Market: 1.13 dollars a week
Macs: 1.23 dollars a week
Hutch's: 1.33 dollars a week

OK, now which is closer to me? Which one takes the least amount of time to get through the line? The difference in price is quite high percentage-wise (but not really in actual cost), but my time and convenience has a price as well...

I have similar options. I could probably go out to the Walmart in the burbs but I choose to walk to the Dominicks (safeway) nearby. I'm probably paying more, but I'm also not using any gas and it doesn't take me very long to get groceries. Which is a better deal to me.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by SHOtime

Mike you constantly cream your pants over department stores like Eatons saying how they are so important to a core. I fail to see how a Costco with good street interaction is any different.

COSTCO is not like the historic downtown department stores. Those stores are totally different and were a fixture in their cities. COSTCO will never like those grand old stores.

The two can not compare.

[atlantaguy]

Mike, what you fail to understand is that Costco (not COSTCO), Target, etc. are the new department stores. You can count on two hands how many American & Canadian cities still have major department stores downtown. I don't like it anymore than you do - but it's the new reality.

Costco is a progressive company that should be lauded for building this type of store in an urban setting. They support local high-quality producers, growers, etc. throughout the States. They pay way above average wages and employ hundreds of people per store. Would you have preferred that Vancouver just built two stand alone condo towers with parking decks?

Your arguments hold no water at all.

[plinko]

^Because they are 'historic'? That doesn't answer the question at all, it's just some romantic 'it was the best of times' nonsense. Will Costco ever be like Hudson's or Marshall Field's in a 'urban experience' type way? Unlikely...but they serve the exact same purpose...and Costco is actually more diversified.

Let me pose this question then...if a locally grown Vancouver company owned and operated this store and it was one of only a handful of locations, would that make it better? Is the real issue for you the fact that it's a big box or that it's a chain? Because oddly enough...if it WAS a local Vancouver company, they would also be looking at ways to lower prices and cut costs (e.g. overseas suppliers, bulk packaging, etc) That isn't a whole lot different than a mega department store.

If it's merely a disdain you have for Costco because it isn't 'homegrown' and poor people shop there...then say so!

[miketoronto]

A department store is not the same COSTCO.

The old downtown department stores are like 10 times larger then COSTCO, and if you read the history of them, they offered merchandise for rich, middle class, and lower income people all together.

COSTCO does not even approach the style or selection the old department stores have.

In terms of being locally owned, etc. Thats not what I am getting at.

If you want cheap food, then Vancouver should be nurturing a downtown market, like other cities.

They should be striving to build a great city. COSTCO'S erode what the city really is.

plinko I have nothing against cheap prices. And lets be honset. Most people shopping at COSTCO are not poor or hurting for money. The issue of cheap prices is not what I am against.

Our downtowns before the advent of the suburbs, offered everything from cheap to expensive, in all kinds of stores.

But we will never have central cities like that with variety, etc if we keep suburbanizing the city with big box stores.

Thats all I am getting at.

So shoot me because I am not a fan of COSTCO

Its hard to explain what I mean on here in writing. So it just makes you guys think I am weird for being against big boxes.

[atlantaguy]

^It's Costco - not COSTCO. They do offer merchandise for rich, middle class and lower income people. The days of 10 story, block square department stores is gone Mike. Get over it, and be glad you live in a place where that is still somewhat of an option. Sears at Eaton Center is nothing more than a big box store - ever shop there?

BTW, ever heard of Granville Island? It's a market a lot of cities would kill to have, and it's a convenient 5 minutes from Costco!