Edmonton Construction 5

[IKAN104]

hotel? Wait! Is this another clue? Aargh!

[SHOFEAR]

[ibz]

It would seem to me that someone has dropped several hints over the months about their big announcement, no?

[Xelebes]

I'm beginning to see the downtown construction bustling. Possibly due to the fact that the Fort Mac construction is having a shutdown for the Christmas holidays/winter season. But it was nice seeing so many concrete trucks and trucks carrying materials around, especially around the condo construction sites around 114th St and the YMCA/Old Bay building.

[feepa]

It sure would be nice if a Hyatt hotel was annouced somewhere downtown, maybe stationlands?
I see a re-occuring theme... hotel, hotel, hotel. I want office towers though. Is a hotel the answer to the promise land?

[Xelebes]

I guess that is in highest demand?

[CMD UW]

Here's the deal, fact is that Edmonton's overall office market (both downtown and suburban) are on fire. There are new suburban office buildings underway and there is minimal quality space left in the downtown. I know of at least 3 major companies that are hiring and require additional office space to accommodate their organic growth. We've heard of a number of office building rumours (from Oxford to Dundee to Melcor) and have 2 buildings under redevelopment (Devonian & Professional). Office rates have been increasing sharply for the past year. This in combination with demand will see some new office product announced and possibly START in 2007 imo.

Edmonton had a depressed hotel market for years. However, over the past 3 years our hotels have seen some solid growth. One just has to look at the daily rates to notice that they are very close to other cities (Calgary, Toronto). The higher rates are a response to the higher occupancy figures for these hotels have. These two components, occupancy rates and daily rates have increased to a point where a new 4-star hotel IS feasible. It's only a matter of time imo.

[SHOFEAR]

Yes, we can truthfully say that it would be economically feasible to build a new office tower or hotel downtown right now....but....

It has been feasible to build some significant (30+floors) condo towers for two years now and we only have only seen two (icon 1 & 2) go beyond a fancy sales website and see actual construction... Even lowering the standards to 20 floors, I can only think of two downtown that have been built in the last five years (century and legacy)

If we are not seeing anybody act on the "red hot" condo market years into it, why would we expect to see anybody act on the hotel or office market this soon?

I suppose you have a much more significant ego factor with offices, but still.

[CMD UW]

/\ Jasper Properties is one you missed. Founders starts sales in January, Bellamy is in the approvals stages, plus others on the books.

Most of downtown has seen the redevelopment of former office properties, which was huge for the downtown in raising property values, removing old office product from the market and injecting warm bodies in the downtown.

[CMD UW]

Anyways, here are some pics from my quick trip to City Centre on Boxing Day.


Grandin Station






Icon I reaches the surface!




Morris Lofts coming along nicely








CWB Place


Skylight in CC West
















The Rotunda in Commerce Place...look up!




Back home I go...

[SHOFEAR]

I wasn't counting JP...minor detail.

The essence of what I'm saying though, is that it's been 1.5 (3 since Hampton house but lets ignore that for now) years since the icon was first announced, which i consider to mark the era of feasibilty for a project of that scale. We all know we are seeing a huge undersupply of that product, yet just about nobody is attemping to correct that.

If nobody is willing to get involved and satisfy the demand for condo's, are we going to expect the same thing in the office market. Years of significant sized projects stalled, in limbo or rumoured, despite being profitable.

[itom 987]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

Bellamy is in the approvals stages

The approvals stage takes too long, to many requests for DC2 because the existing zoning is out of date. This wastes from months to years of time that could have been used build the danm thing.

[CMD UW]

/\ I'll continue to argue this one with you for awhile.

Let's create a list of successful projects in downtown from over the past 3 years:

Phillips Lofts, Cobogo Lofts, The Executive, The Ten (questionable), Cambridge Lofts, Lofts on 107th, Railtown, Altavista, Omega, Gates on Twelvth, Ellis Lofts, Glenora Gates, Gates on 105th(?), Rivervista, Illuminada, Jasper Properties, Madison 111, & Parliament. Am I missing any more?

At the end of the day, height is moot as we HAVE seen a significant increase in investment in our downtown. The first couple of years was the digging out period, and the hole was deep. Now, our downtown has finally reached the surface and we should expect to see more larger scaled projects. Increasing the height of Icon II is a sign of this.

Fact is that we've seen projects increase in scale over the past 2 years. Multi-storey developments are becoming more commonplace ~ Icon 2, Illuminada II, Vivacity, Altavista 2, Q, Serenity, The Uptown, Rossdale Green, Founders Ridge.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by itom 987

The approvals stage takes too long, to many requests for DC2 because the existing zoning is out of date. This wastes from months to years of time that could have been used build the danm thing.

While I agree that there should be amendments to the zoning bylaw, particularly for the downtown area, approvals in Edmonton take no longer than those in any other city.

E.g: Every development within downtown Vancouver is executed via Direct Control zoning.

[Coldrsx]

^must be a slowe day over there hey cmd....you post more than once.

vancouver is nice:>

[Coldrsx]

SUBJECT: An Edmontonian envies Calgary

The Journal has recently lost some reporters to its sister paper The Calgary Herald lately and the trend seems to be continuing. That was once unthinkable.

My former colleagues give reasons such as new challenges, beats etc. but a lot of times they seem to be just covering the exact same stuff they did here.

Maybe it's a quality of life issue that drives them away from Edmonton. I've been spending the last few days in Calgary as the family does every Christmas. Where Edmonton looks shabby, Calgary looks shiny.

Whatever Edmonton has, Calgary generally has the same, only better. The newly expanded Calgary Telus World of Science, the Calgary Zoo, the Glenbow Museum outclass their northern counterparts in resources and appearance. (I refuse to take visiting Calgarians to the Edmonton Valley Zoo for fear of undying shame.)

Rail against corporations if you want, but their bucks make a huge difference in things that attract tourists, employees and their families to a city.

Edmonton has Whyte Avenue, but Calgary has 17th Avenue and Kensington and newly trendy Inglewood. Edmonton has West Edmonton Mall that looks more tattered and trashy by the day, but Calgary has tons of shopping plus Calaway Park.

Their airport is a hub, ours is not. Calgary has the Rocky Mountains. We've got ... Wabamum Lake.

Calgary freeways actually take you from one end of the city to the next in generally efficient fashion. Wayne Gretzky Drive, Whitemud Drive and Yellowhead Trail take you fewer places, far less quickly. The same goes for Edmonton's LRT system, er, line.

All other things being roughly equal, cities attract people to work and play with quality of life. Even reporters will abandon one newspaper for its sister paper down the road if the city is better. Maybe this is also why CBC's The National maddeningly ignores Alberta's capital in favour of Calgary.

My three-year-old son yesterday told me he wants to move to Calgary.

Often things that add quality of life cost money -- adding some reason to visit the river valley if you don't jog or taking some of the grit out of the gritty downtown east side. For this reason, I cut our more visionary civic leaders a little slack when they get dogpiled by the nickel-and-dimers.

Posted by Bill Mah on December 26, 2006 2:09 PM MDT
Permalink

[SHOFEAR]

The first couple of years was the digging out period, and the hole was deep. Now, our downtown has finally reached the surface and we should expect to see more larger scaled projects. Increasing the height of Icon II is a sign of this

Absolutly, but why has there been somewhat of a stagnation between the digging out period and what should be the next step, the large scaled projects? We all know there is a market for it, just as we all know there is now a market for a significant office tower. Are we going to see office developers diddle around with unimaginitive smale scaled projects the same way condo developers have been, despite the demand being there for more impressive buildings. It may not be a valid comparison, if thats the case then I have no arguement. But somebody has to convince me that is the case.

The renovation of existing b and c class office buildings (like the devonian)is comparible, at least to me, to the condo conversions and smaller scale new development ( less than 20 floors). It creates the nessecary environment for the large scaled projects and is a period that will be encountered prior.

I don't think it's fair to say height is moot. There are people like me who want that. Langham asking $400/sqft is proof. In that same sence, there are companies who want that in their office space and a midrise renovated building doesn't do it for them.

[Coldrsx]

RE Bill Mah.....with luck, a response will be in the journal tomo or the next...

[ibz]

Not saying I agree entirely with it, but Mah raises some very valid points. I am still somewhat shocked when I speak with yet another one of my university classmates who cant wait to leave Edmonton in the dust for a better life in Calgary, in fairness for the business world there are some very valid reasons to go there, but still...Edmonton is on the cusp of something big I think, its only a matter of time.

[tony0911]

Sitting here .......observing.....reading the posts......all sort of summed up by ryane....Edmonton is on the cusp of something.....What is Edmonton on the cusp of and how long will it take to develop, people get tired of waiting Calgary is already in the middle of their's and it continues to grow.....well we sit here talking about what Edmonotn might be.....Calgary is......and that's why people are leaving to head there they want to be where the action is, not where it might be sometime in the future.