Lets send some T.O. business growth to Downtown Hamilton.

miketoronto · #1 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 10:39 PM**

We all know that the Greater Toronto region is suffering from massive urban sprawl problems. We can talk all we want about how much denser our suburbs are. But at the end of the day, the GTA is chocking in sprawl. Downtown Toronto is seeing less and less of the business growth, and millions of sq feet of office space is opening up in Toronto's 905 belt.

So instead of sprawl, why can't Toronto send some growth to Hamilton.

Many people often site that Toronto is just to expensive for some business to open up offices.

So what if downtown Hamilton captured some of the growth instead of suburban office parks?

Just think if the governments worked together, and pushed most of the job growth into downtown Toronto and Hamilton.

What do you guys think of that. Do you think it would work to turn downtown Hamilton into the second corporate place after downtown Toronto.

Do you think a plan like that could work?

Instead of sprawl, it would be great to see T.O. take on the NYC way of doing things where they have Manhattan and then downtowns in area cities like Newark, and Jersey City taking up positions as second business centres.

I think it would make more sense to send some business to Hamilton then to have them set up shop in the 905 belt.

My friend and I drove through Markham the other night, and it is just freaky how much office buildings(normal office buildings, not offices attached to manufacturing) are going up.

But just think of the alternative. Downtown Toronto and Hamilton. To strong downtown corporate addresses, connected by high-speed GO TRAIN service

Could work very well.

waterloowarrior · #2 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 11:44 PM**

what about downtown mississuaga? that's even closer to Toronto than Hamilton. brampton has direct train to its downtown.. or vaughn, they are getting the subway there. Markham also has GO and YRT!

won't concentrating things in downtown hamilton mean more sprawl along the qew, highway 6, 403, and 8 :p hamilton doesn't even have lrt or subway, go service is terrible, won't that just mean people will drive to their jobs?

edit: oh yeah..... 'hi', Toronto + Hamilton = good, rest of 905 = bad/sprawl/leeches, scarborough = urban, scarborough town centre > downtown missisauga , "you guys don't care about the city like I do", downtown is dying etc etc etc

waterloowarrior · #3 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 11:57 PM**

ps the solution to where growth will go has already been thought up by the ON government

http://www.pir.gov.on.ca/english/growth/index.html

check out the numbers here.. I don't think you'll be very happy.
http://www.pir.gov.on.ca/english/gro...WEB-SCHED3.pdf

flar · #4 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 12:55 AM**

White collar people seem to generally like suburban areas. They're easily accessible by car and close to where they live. That's why there are lots of offices along the QEW. Offices in skyscrapers in downtown Toronto have prestige, but Hamilton doesn't offer that kind of prestige in many social circles.

raisethehammer · #5 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 2:15 PM**

plus Hamilton doesn't have enough Wendy's or Kelsey's restaurants to suit the fine dining tastes of the white collar business park worker.

SteelTown · #6 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 2:50 PM**

There's a reason why companies like Tim Horton's and AIG Insurance located their head offices in the GTA. AIG Insurance actually wanted to locate in Hamilton but they found Hamilton doesn't have good transit connections with Toronto so instead they decided to locate in Burlington which has 24hrs GO Transit. That's the same story for Wescam. Wescam and AIG head office are neighbours too. FedEx just recently located their head office in Burlington even though they use Hamilton Airport for cargo. CargoJet again uses Hamilton Airport but head office is in Mississagua. BIOX has their company in Hamilton but head office is in Oakville. I could go on and on and on but I'll stop lol.

MolsonExport · #7 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 3:33 PM**

I don't get it. You have started several threads lamenting the 'hollowing-out' of downtown Tarrana, to the benefit of the 905. Now you propose exporting more to Hamilton?

raisethehammer · #8 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 3:45 PM**

good point about head offices never being in the Hammer.
I was being more sarcastic than anything in regards to Wendy's etc.... I do think this is a good idea.
If business feels they must leave downtown TO, why not have them set up shop in downtown Hamilton? Makes sense. Doesn't result in sprawl or more farmland paving. Transit would have to be increased...although from what I'm hearing here it sounds like Hamilton needs to get the transit problem fixed before these companies will come.
Steeltown isn't kidding - he could go on and on with companies that have plants in Hamilton and head offices outside the city. It's insane.
Two strong urban centres along the Lakeshore GO line would make more sense than sprawling all the way up to Barrie.

caltrane74 · #9 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 3:52 PM**

huh? - miketoronto does it agian.

raisethehammer · #10 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 4:29 PM**

some real intelligent posts on this thing....

WhipperSnapper · #11 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

If business feels they must leave downtown TO, why not have them set up shop in downtown Hamilton? Makes sense. Doesn't result in sprawl or more farmland paving.

WTF?

Intensification, in the billions of dollars, is occuring thoughout the 905 and the Hamilton metro is hardly an urban mecca (just look at the rough condition of your central downtown)

WZ1 · #12 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 5:03 PM**

I think it makes sense. Why pump up the suburbs when you have a urban core with very good transit links and the best location in southern Ontario to build.. Hamilton is 40 mins from Toronto, 40 Mins from Buffalo, 2.5 hours from Detroit, 45 mins from K_W and Guelph.. 1 hour from London...

J. Will · #13 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 5:10 PM**

I would disagree that Hamilton has "very good transit links". Maybe with the rest of Hamilton, but that's about it, and that's not where head-office types tend to live.

Also, why would these suburbs want to give up potential growth to Hamilton? They'd lose out on millions of tax dollars.

SteelTown · #14 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 5:29 PM**

Hamilton is a hub, gateway to the Niagara region and the GTA, but not public transit link. Hamilton has rail, air, water and highways. But what's lacking is government support for public transit. There is a company that would like to create a GO Ferry service but usual people shoot it down as being too ambitious or something.

realcity · #15 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 5:35 PM**

Downtown Mississauga? If there is one it's a mall.

Taller Better · #16 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 5:41 PM**

I don't get it either, Mike. You exaggerate imaginary problems in Toronto by blowing out of proportion the flow of businesses to and from the suburbs. How can you "send business" to any place? Business decides where it wants to set up. Every downtown of every city has to work hard to keep business there and not have it move away, but frankly you have a negative obsession worrying about any business that sets up in the suburbs because it is more suitable for them out there. The metropolitan city is an organism, like a body, and the suburbs are still part of the healthy body. Suburbs of Toronto aren't different planets, or cities in different provinces.

shappy · #17 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Do you think a plan like that could work?

what plan? Mike, you're a hack... it's clear you know nothing about this stuff at all. I mean, the actually nitty gritty practical stuff. Nothing. None of your contributions have any basis in reality. You're just floating around in space somewhere desperately trying to make a contribution. Come down to earth, learn discipline, and then make your mark on the world.

raisethehammer · #18 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 6:14 PM**

speaking of 'hacks' I can't believe what I just read - "How can you "send business" to any place? Business decides where it wants to set up."

I'll tell you how - stop subsidizing sprawl. stop having the government pay for mega-highways in order to make this sprawl somewhat livable. Start charging more than 15 or 20% of the development costs to developers - try 75 -80%.
hamilton's urban core is in 'rough' condition because the downtown businesses and residents have subsidized sprawl for 3 decades...and lo and behold, there's no money in the city coffers.
Cities should determine where growth and business will go. Business will go where it's cheap and convenient. Right now that is on productive farmland because our governments are so far in the sack with them they won't make proper planning choices for our cities.
Business should be flocking to downtown Toronto and Hamilton, not leaving for no-man's land.

waterloowarrior · #19 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

Downtown Mississauga? If there is one it's a mall.

I was just trying to point out some of miketo's anti 905 suburban hate... somehow things are better if they are in Toronto's boundaries (ie Scarborough town centre), and somehow to avoid urban sprawl it's better to build farther away from Toronto than in an area much closer to the core with a large residential and large nearby office population (and future LRT/GO connections). I have nothing against Hamilton

Tony · #20 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 6:21 PM**

MIKETORONTO PLEASE LOOK:

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

ps the solution to where growth will go has already been thought up by the ON government

http://www.pir.gov.on.ca/english/growth/index.html

check out the numbers here.. I don't think you'll be very happy.
http://www.pir.gov.on.ca/english/gro...WEB-SCHED3.pdf