Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[GenWhy?]

Neat and that's great to hear they're trying a more standard approach for infrastructure funding.

[jollyburger]

But White said the cost of the required infrastructure has now doubled, making it unrealistic to rely solely on development revenue to fund the work. “If we’re just expecting the development revenue to make up that massive cost escalation that we’ve experienced, we’re gonna be perpetually spinning our wheels,” said the City’s chief planner.

According to White, recent major City policy changes — especially the amendments to the protected mountain view cones to relax building height restrictions — have reopened conversations about increased density and development capacity, which could generate additional revenue to help finance infrastructure.

“They don’t have land to proceed on unless we remove the viaducts,” said White, adding that City staff have been meeting with Concord every two weeks for the past year and a half to resolve funding and phasing challenges. Discussions are also ongoing with the Government of British Columbia around a “participation mortgage,” which White described as a “key piece of revenue” needed to fund land remediation, infrastructure, and public amenities. This is in addition to potentially tapping into federal programs.

“We have to work collectively together, and creatively, and think of solutions that weren’t even on the table in 2018 in our previous iterations of the plan. Concord needs to be a participant to that. Plaza of Nations needs to be a participant to that,” said White.

Under such a scenario, a participation mortgage could theoretically be a financing arrangement in which the provincial government provides upfront funding for the viaducts demolition and new road network, in exchange for repayment plus a share of future development revenues generated once the land is built out. As a form of low-cost financing, this approach would allow the major upfront capital costs needed to kickstart the NEFC Plan to be deferred until high-density development projects are ready further down the road.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/dunsmuir...eek-plan-federal-provincial-loans-update

[Migrant_Coconut]

Could we also get an Infrastructure Bank loan for the Purple and Gold lines? That'd go a long way toward making this whole thing work.

[officedweller]

Even if the viaducts are gone, Concord will probably still wait until market conditions are right before building.

Originally Posted by logan5

Maximize the value of the viaduct lands by maximizing the density - around FSR 20/ 6 million buildable sq feet, gives you an average tower height of 65 floors/6500 sq ft floor plate, spread over 14 towers. You would have 8 towers on the east parcel, and 6 on the west, and still easily have at least 80 foot tower separation. At a conservate 400/buildable = 2.4 billion land value.

Now do the same the for the rest of NE False Creek, so you can generate a lot more CAC money for the viaduct removal, and new road network.

Trade off height restrictions so that we can save the DTES from rotting away and being permanently destroyed.

Remember that the NEFC park space will be the repository for contaminated soils for the area (just like David Lam Park, George Wainborn Park and Andy Livingstone Park), so there will have to be some open park space that won't be built on.
But that doesn't prevent them from buildinging higher where they do propose towers.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Even if the viaducts are gone, Concord will probably still wait until market conditions are right before building.

Remember that the NEFC park space will be the repository for contaminated soils for the area (just like David Lam Park, George Wainborn Park and Andy Livingstone Park), so there will have to be some open park space that won't be built on.
But that doesn't prevent them from buildinging higher where they do propose towers.

I think the ongoing negotiations are probably around forcing a schedule if the City ponies up to redo the infrastructure. But at the pace these things go, it will take a whole market cycle for them (the City) to do everything. Start now and it will be finishing up around the next market top.

[kikin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think the ongoing negotiations are probably around forcing a schedule if the City ponies up to redo the infrastructure. But at the pace these things go, it will take a whole market cycle for them (the City) to do everything. Start now and it will be finishing up around the next market top.

how long is a typical cycle? it feels we are at the absolute bottom right now

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by kikin

how long is a typical cycle? it feels we are at the absolute bottom right now

Probably a year or two more of this, the market hasn't really tanked much in terms of selling prices. It depends but I'd say 8-10 years is enough to see a whole cycle again.

[whatnext]

Looks like Kareem wants to pick up Gregor's failed mantle on this one:

Kareem Allam's Vancouver Liberals call for viaducts demolition, UBC SkyTrain, and the adoption of the B.C. Building Code
Kenneth Chan
Sep 24 2026, 7:11 pm


...In Northeast False Creek, Allam is calling for the provincial government’s involvement to speed up the demolition of the Dunsmuir and Georgia viaducts. The party presents the removal of the arterial road structures as a way to make room for new housing, employment spaces, and public parks...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...c-skytrain-building-code#google_vignette

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Looks like Kareem wants to pick up Gregor's failed mantle on this one:

Kareem Allam's Vancouver Liberals call for viaducts demolition, UBC SkyTrain, and the adoption of the B.C. Building Code
Kenneth Chan
Sep 24 2026, 7:11 pm


...In Northeast False Creek, Allam is calling for the provincial government’s involvement to speed up the demolition of the Dunsmuir and Georgia viaducts. The party presents the removal of the arterial road structures as a way to make room for new housing, employment spaces, and public parks...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...c-skytrain-building-code#google_vignette

NEFC development is long overdue. And despite some of the wishes of SSP forumers, the viaducts need to come down as a part of that.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

NEFC development is long overdue. And despite some of the wishes of SSP forumers, the viaducts need to come down as a part of that.

How's that Plaza of Nations buildout coming along?

[GenWhy?]

What's the year that repairs will be required if they stay up?

[jollyburger]

2032

https://vancouversun.com/news/vancouver-gridlock-viaduct-removal-funding-question

They just started doing joint replacements this month.

[GenWhy?]

Hmm so this IS a 2026-2030 council decision then

(I can't imagine a decision being made in time for the 2031-2034 council if the deadline is 2032)

[GMD]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Looks like Kareem wants to pick up Gregor's failed mantle on this one:

Kareem Allam's Vancouver Liberals call for viaducts demolition, UBC SkyTrain, and the adoption of the B.C. Building Code
Kenneth Chan
Sep 24 2026, 7:11 pm


...In Northeast False Creek, Allam is calling for the provincial government’s involvement to speed up the demolition of the Dunsmuir and Georgia viaducts. The party presents the removal of the arterial road structures as a way to make room for new housing, employment spaces, and public parks...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...c-skytrain-building-code#google_vignette

They've made some dumb proposals (e.g. removing parking meters at rec centers), but this is a solid tri-fecta of things to push for

[GenWhy?]

Would also be interesting to see where the excess CAC money would be allocated to if the governments pay for the viaduct removal instead.

Would that CAC money be a kind of "latecomer agreement" where they pay the government back, or does it go towards social housing, more rec centres, park space / park infrastructure?

[Chirpythecougar]

Is there any party that is pro maintain/rebuild the viaducts?
Greens want to demolish because viaducts racist.
OneCity/COPE want to demolish because highways and cars bad.
ABC/Liberals/Vote want to demolish because pro developer (NEFC).
Only TEAM I could see wanting to keep them because they want it to be 1970 forever

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Chirpythecougar

Is there any party that is pro maintain/rebuild the viaducts?
Greens want to demolish because viaducts racist.
OneCity/COPE want to demolish because highways and cars bad.
ABC/Liberals/Vote want to demolish because pro developer (NEFC).
Only TEAM I could see wanting to keep them because they want it to be 1970 forever

Meanwhile the reality is that most people don't want to spend $1-2K per capita to remove infrastructure before it's End-of-Life, even if you don't like them. It might be different if the CACs paid for the removal, but it's pretty obvious they won't cover it currently.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Meanwhile the reality is that most people don't want to spend $1-2K per capita to remove infrastructure before it's End-of-Life, even if you don't like them. It might be different if the CACs paid for the removal, but it's pretty obvious they won't cover it currently.

How are you getting 1 to 2 k per capita?

The value of the viaduct land is based on some absurdly low FSR. Give that land a proper FSR, like FSR 20, and the removal costs might be covered completely.

The payoff is huge. Chinatown would be a destination neighborhood, with bars and restaurants bringing tons of energy.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

How are you getting 1 to 2 k per capita?

The value of the viaduct land is based on some absurdly low FSR. Give that land a proper FSR, like FSR 20, and the removal costs might be covered completely.

The payoff is huge. Chinatown would be a destination neighborhood, with bars and restaurants bringing tons of energy.

Not to mention the massive amount of False Creek shoreline that is little more than a haphazard seawall and a parking lot. Some of the most expensive and desirable land in the world. And I'm not being hyperbolic.

The City is equally guilty with their land on the south side near the Cambie bridge.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Chirpythecougar

Is there any party that is pro maintain/rebuild the viaducts?
Greens want to demolish because viaducts racist.
OneCity/COPE want to demolish because highways and cars bad.
ABC/Liberals/Vote want to demolish because pro developer (NEFC).
Only TEAM I could see wanting to keep them because they want it to be 1970 forever

Great summary!