BC Ferries Discussion

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Using a diesel-to-electric powertrain with batteries allows the ferry to run with the diesel engines always set to their most efficient configuration and then draw whatever power is needed from moment-to-moment from the batteries. This is one of the ways that a hybrid car (such as a Prius) saves energy.

The other big way that hybrid cars save energy is to recoup momentum when you slow or stop by turning the electric motor into a generator and feeding the energy back into the battery again. This can recover most of the energy that was needed to stop the car, store it in the battery, and then use it to get the car going again. I assume that the ferries wouldn't be able to take advantage of this.

It would be interesting to know just how much diesel fuel is saved by operating the ferry in hybrid mode.

There are other changes in design that will affect the efficiency of the new ferries. As they're effectively elctric powered, they won't have a rudder, or propellor, but rather four propulser units.

I get the impression that the diesel engines are not intended to be a long-term use (except as backup). The Canada Infrastructure Bank provided BC Ferries with a low-cost loan of $1 billion for the ferries, with $690 million to buy them and $310 million for future ferry terminal infrastructure upgrades, specifically the installation of charging infrastructure. That will presumably take some time to install, maybe requiring BC Hydro upgrades to some of the terminals.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Maybe when they're in port they can use the batteries to run all the systems but not relying on the engines which would be operating at minimal load? Not sure if constant restarts is an issue.

They would probably run the generators at optimum load (80-85%) while in port using the excess generation capacity to charge the batteries. Then draw on the batteries while sailing.
Constant stops and starts are definitely to be avoided. The Coastal Class don’t shutdown engines while in berth, they’re just kept running on low load.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by madog222

They would probably run the generators at optimum load (80-85%) while in port using the excess generation capacity to charge the batteries. Then draw on the batteries while sailing.

Yes, that's exactly the point - you can size the generators smaller and run them at their best efficiency mix of power/speed because they only have to provide for the average power output (plus some safety margin), not the maximum. The batteries provide the buffer that allows the ship to draw more or less power as is needed.

[whatnext]

Just build the damn bridge already!

B.C. Ferries adds 5% surcharge as fuel prices surge
The surcharge, in response to a 40% hike in fuel costs since March, will increase the price for a vehicle travelling from Swartz Bay to Tsawwassen to $93.45 from $89.
Darron Kloster
about 21 hours ago

It’s going to cost you a few dollars more to ride B.C. Ferries starting June 16.

The company says it’s adding a 5% fuel surcharge in response to a 40% increase in fuel costs since March. That rise comes amid supply problems resulting from the closure of the Strait of Hormuz amid the U.S. war against Iran.

The temporary surcharge, which will be applied across all B.C. Ferries routes, was authorized by the B.C. Ferry Commission....

https://www.biv.com/news/bc-ferries-adds-5-surcharge-as-fuel-prices-surge-12366954

[whatnext]

Wait, so now we're not building those ferries in China?
From the UBCM conference.

....Another big reveal from Eby was that the next generation of BC Ferries vessels will be built right here in British Columbia. Previously, it was announced that the vessels would be built in China, leading to major backlash....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-snap-election-eby-2026

[chowhou]

Eby is really speedrunning the 90s NDP huh?

[madog222]

The direct quote is “I will be directing BC Ferries to ensure that the next generation of BC Ferries vessels will be built right here in British Columbia.”

It certainly sounds like that means canceling the contract with the CMI.

[NewfBC]

I believe these are already under construction. Perhaps he meant the NEXT generation?


Ron.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

I believe these are already under construction. Perhaps he meant the NEXT generation?


Ron.

This is the most logical. Other than costing a ton of money that would also put these ships at least a few more years out when they are desperately needed.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

I believe these are already under construction. Perhaps he meant the NEXT generation?


Ron.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Sloppy writing on Daily Hive's part.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Eby is really speedrunning the 90s NDP huh?

If the word "fast" appears anywhere near the word "ferry" then he's in deep trouble...

[SFUVancouver]

Re: future ferry construction in BC, I think there’s a growing recognition that the National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS) will eventually wind down for Seaspan. There is still the big ice breaker and some program icebreakers, if I’m not mistaken, and, hopefully, a couple more joint support ships, but, I mean, the Coast Guard’s recapitalization plan is significantly completed for the non-ice breaker hulls. There aren’t a ton of non-combat vessels left in the pipeline.

If the Continental Defense Corvettes (CDC) proceed, those are going to likely go to a Tier 2 shipyard(s), most likely Ontario Shipyards. The small vessels like the new offshore lifeboats for the Coast Guard are already going to tertiary shipyards. It’s likely that the Seaspan facility for maintenance of the new sub fleet will be inside CFB Esquimalt, or at least split between Esquimalt and Seaspan Victoria shipyards, with the sensitive stuff in the former and more normal stuff at other. I don’t imagine they would build something so sensitive on the North Shore without any existing RCN infrastructure.

Getting a longterm shipbuilding commitment from BC Ferries on the books for Seaspan beginning in the mid 2030s is going to be a big deal to maintaining their capabilities and bridging to the next round of NSS-like projects to replace the NSS-built fleets.

[jollyburger]

There is no way they are going to risk having no replacements for ships built in the 1960-70s even if they want to commit to building future vessels in BC.

[madog222]

They don't really have that many more boats to be built. For major vessels up to three more Summits are planned then none are needed until the Spirits will be retired.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

There is no way they are going to risk having no replacements for ships built in the 1960-70s even if they want to commit to building future vessels in BC.

I don’t have a sense anymore of what the BC Ferries fleet is like these days. There have been new additions over the last while, but it sounds like some significant portion is getting up there in years.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I don’t have a sense anymore of what the BC Ferries fleet is like these days. There have been new additions over the last while, but it sounds like some significant portion is getting up there in years.

For major vessels pre-90s there will be two C-Class left, the Oak Bay and Surrey, after these first four Summit Class on order enter service.
For pre-90s minor vessels there's two more around the size of the new Island Class size and four small ~20 car boats.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I don’t have a sense anymore of what the BC Ferries fleet is like these days. There have been new additions over the last while, but it sounds like some significant portion is getting up there in years.

I went to the Sunshine coast a few weeks ago on the Queen of Coquitlam, built in 1976.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by madog222

They don't really have that many more boats to be built. For major vessels up to three more Summits are planned then none are needed until the Spirits will be retired.

I wouldn't mind them going back to the "Queen of..." naming scheme. It just has a nice vibe for me.

[jollyburger]

If they had any capacity/expertise to build those larger ferries and deliver it by the mid-2030s then I think they would consider it. If not it seems like it would make more sense to get them to deliver whatever smaller ships that need to be built in the interim since the other large vessels are getting replaced in the 2040-50s.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Re: future ferry construction in BC, I think there’s a growing recognition that the National Shipbuilding Strategy (NSS) will eventually wind down for Seaspan. There is still the big ice breaker and some program icebreakers, if I’m not mistaken, and, hopefully, a couple more joint support ships, but, I mean, the Coast Guard’s recapitalization plan is significantly completed for the non-ice breaker hulls. There aren’t a ton of non-combat vessels left in the pipeline.

If the Continental Defense Corvettes (CDC) proceed, those are going to likely go to a Tier 2 shipyard(s), most likely Ontario Shipyards. The small vessels like the new offshore lifeboats for the Coast Guard are already going to tertiary shipyards. It’s likely that the Seaspan facility for maintenance of the new sub fleet will be inside CFB Esquimalt, or at least split between Esquimalt and Seaspan Victoria shipyards, with the sensitive stuff in the former and more normal stuff at other. I don’t imagine they would build something so sensitive on the North Shore without any existing RCN infrastructure.

Getting a longterm shipbuilding commitment from BC Ferries on the books for Seaspan beginning in the mid 2030s is going to be a big deal to maintaining their capabilities and bridging to the next round of NSS-like projects to replace the NSS-built fleets.

Interesting. I also see this ship-building announcement as a potential way to get more federal money flowing this way as well as it could be seen as a nation-building exercise. We are going to need more ice-breaker vessels in the future and being able to build them at home is an advantage... which is harder to do without an industry or expertise.

Fast ferries were obviously problematic (although damage was exaggerated by the incoming gov't)... but keep to building what is known shouldn't be a huge problem.