Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Wpg_Guy]

• Video Link

[TorontoDrew]

Cool video.

It’s too bad it ended up looking a bit like a department store on the outside. I guess it’s tough in most urban settings to do something really distinctive architecturally when you’re working with a tighter plot of land. It’s a shame they went with a new arena in the ’90s, because I think that era of design is probably a big part of why it gives me those suburban mall / ’90s Hudson’s Bay vibes.

[Glow Fun City]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Cool video.

It’s too bad it ended up looking a bit like a department store on the outside. I guess it’s tough in most urban settings to do something really distinctive architecturally when you’re working with a tighter plot of land. It’s a shame they went with a new arena in the ’90s, because I think that era of design is probably a big part of why it gives me those suburban mall / ’90s Hudson’s Bay vibes.

Yeah, I feel the same way about GM Place/Rogers Arena in Vancouver… not the best era for arenas in general (though I do like Rose Garden/Moda Center in Portland)

[Oilkountry]

Any update on Jets new dressing room and player facilities? I'm really curious on the branding. If they went with the 70s logo that basically confirms the rebrand

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Any update on Jets new dressing room and player facilities? I'm really curious on the branding. If they went with the 70s logo that basically confirms the rebrand

No photos of the finished room yet — just this recent press release on the overhaul (new medical/therapy space, S&C, circadian lighting, extra 3,000 sq ft, tunnel to the visitors’ bench, etc.). I don’t think they’re dropping the current primary logo. The 70s one will stay an alternate/heritage mark.

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

True North Sports + Entertainment

[Wpg_Guy]

• Video Link

[J.OT13]

Yeah, 90s arenas we're not great. Not only the design, but the lack of active frontage.

Toronto managed to improve the main facade design at some point when they added the glass atrium bit to the flat airport hanger looking face. Also lucky that two sides are hidden and the other side is a grant old Canada Post building, but again a dead facade otherwise.

Vancouver as well is taking an otherwise awakrard spot, so it's less bad. The new tower helps as well.

Winnipeg is one of my favourite arenas when looking at it from Portage, but again, the other three façades are dead.

It's exciting to see the new Flames arena design where they are trying to have three active façades, and a parking garage on the fourth; you'll always need at least ine back of house for shipping, receiving and parking.

I can't say I've noticed active frontage on Edmonton's arena, but it's interesting to look at all around.

Can't wait to see how they'll manage to work with Ottawa's tight LeBreton site. Main road is Albert to the south, which should be rebuilt at some point with wider sidewalks and bike lanes. That face needs to be active. It will be between City Centre on the West and Preston on the East (as in Lord Stanley of Preston, the Governour General who gifted the Cup, lucky coincidence). Preston should be the pedestrian plaza and will extend over the O-Train tracks to the Parks District. Speaking of, the north side is the O-Train with stations within 250 meters both sides of the arena.

I'm imagining Albert could have a restaurant and the Sens store, Preston the main entrance and plaza, train side facing the park and river could have a cantilevered terrace over the tracks for a restaurant patio. City Centre could be back of house. Plans call for three towers over the arena, so imagine three lobbies as well, including one luxury hotel.

Sens own the triangle west of the arena (across City Centre) and one block east across Preston. They have the option of buying the rest of the land south of the train. I imagine n interior corridor between the two stations, with the arena concourse in the middle with windows to the train, park and river.

[MalcolmTucker]

How tight is the LeBreton site? One reason there wasn’t huge love lost for the failed arena design in Calgary was the site was too small and so the design had to stack things that were hard to stack leading to large blank walls and constrained upper concourses. The new design they secured more land and everything just fit better, enabling the more active frontage.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

How tight is the LeBreton site? One reason there wasn’t huge love lost for the failed arena design in Calgary was the site was too small and so the design had to stack things that were hard to stack leading to large blank walls and constrained upper concourses. The new design they secured more land and everything just fit better, enabling the more active frontage.

The LeBreton site is an awkward shape. Here's the NCC Mater Plan, with the big orange thing being the arena. This was created with the intention of leaving a spot for an "events centre", but before the Sens were officially involved.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...flats-hopes-library-parcel-sets-the-tone

And Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/LeBret..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDkwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

The Sens will have 11 to 15 acres total, so everything south of the tracks with the three blocks on the right being an option to buy. The arena spot itself is about 200m x 100m. For comparison:

New Arena Calgary site 210m x 190m
Vancouver 115m x 140m
Edmonton 190m x 150m
Winnipeg 150m x 90m
Toronto 120m x 120m
Montreal 150m x 110m

So it's that 100m that's tight. Also remember the three towers on top of the arena. No above ground parking though as far as we know.

For Calgary, I'm very happy with the new design. First one looked like an HP printer. New one with the concourse at ground level, burying the practice rink, parking in the back. Seems like a great use of space.

[MalcolmTucker]

That is pretty tight. Asking a site to do too much gets expensive. Calgary had extra pressure as they wanted all long lead time mechanical and electrical items above the flood plain which either meant at ground level blanking a wall, or elevated compressing the concourse and bowl.

The 2nd level of the bowl ended up with a compromised layout that left you wondering 'we're paying this much to get something we will want to replace'.

For Ottawa, depending what can be provided offsite by eyeball and a same scale map, T-Mobile Arena would fit (not that they optimized to be active on multiple sides, but they do have reasonable concourses and a larger one on one side).

[cjones2451]

Here is an update on the Lansdowne 2.0 project in Ottawa starting with the new arena.

https://engage.ottawa.ca/lansdowne-2-0

[cjones2451]

The Halifax Wanderers of the CPL made a proposal to Halifax City Council on a permanent stadium. Quick details looks like just over 10K seating, artificial turf field for year round use, can house Canadian Football field, 650 parking spaces under the stadium

https://issuu.com/halifaxwanderers/docs/presentation_to_hrm?fr=sMmU1ZDg1MzU4NDM

[someone123]

Big open question if Halifax municipal politicians can get it together enough to enable somebody else to fund infrastructure for them. It's not a given.

[isaidso]

Does the Wanderers Grounds site allow for future expansion to 25,000? If Halifax is ever to get professional football, this might be the most realistic step towards that end. It would require foresight though; something that rarely seems to happen in Canadian stadium development.

Look at Lansdowne in Ottawa, for example. They've basically ensured that the stadium can NEVER be expanded if attendance grows over time. The exact same thing happened with PEPS at Laval.

[someone123]

I don't see expansion plans as part of this proposal but there's a large amount of adjacent public land. It would be possible to create a large site by realigning streets or moving other things on the block like the lawn bowling or horse club.

The natural history museum was opened in 1970 and presumably could be replaced eventually. A lot of amenities were built around there were placed haphazardly without any sense that the land might one day be at a premium. I wonder about building into Citadel Hill and using green roofs. Halifax has a lack of museum space and no large or modern municipal or provincial museum.

[someone123]

Halifax city council voted 15-1 to get a staff report on the Wanderers stadium project, so they seem mostly open to it. This is maybe the 8th stadium scheme I've seen, but it's the most credible since it's led by a successful company and they know what their needs are.

It would only provide permanent seating for 10,500 but it would have a CFL-compatible field.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax city council voted 15-1 to get a staff report on the Wanderers stadium project, so they seem mostly open to it. This is maybe the 8th stadium scheme I've seen, but it's the most credible since it's led by a successful company and they know what their needs are.

It would only provide permanent seating for 10,500 but it would have a CFL-compatible field.

Perfect for the next 20 years of alternating Touchdown Atlantic games with Moncton while they keep tossing back and forth who should get a team, before the league just says screw it and puts one in Quebec City

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Perfect for the next 20 years of alternating Touchdown Atlantic games with Moncton while they keep tossing back and forth who should get a team, before the league just says screw it and puts one in Quebec City

If this specific stadium project goes ahead that basically the nail in the coffin for the CFL in Halifax over the next 20 years. If the city is going to invest in this they should really put a feeler out for potential CFL owners to potentially find a 2nd tenant or at the very least tell the soccer club any stadium design built on city land with any city funds has to be permanently expandable to 25k in the future. The design essentially gatekeeps the CFL from ever expanding to Halifax

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

If this specific stadium project goes ahead that basically the nail in the coffin for the CFL in Halifax over the next 20 years. If the city is going to invest in this they should really put a feeler out for potential CFL owners to potentially find a 2nd tenant or at the very least tell the soccer club any stadium design built on city land with any city funds has to be permanently expandable to 25k in the future. The design essentially gatekeeps the CFL from ever expanding to Halifax

Perennial problem though, as much as they study it, there isn't a good location available.

They should just build a stadium on a barge (only half joking).

from: Victoria once had plans to put 1994 Commonwealth Games on floating barges in Inner Harbour

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

If this specific stadium project goes ahead that basically the nail in the coffin for the CFL in Halifax over the next 20 years. If the city is going to invest in this they should really put a feeler out for potential CFL owners to potentially find a 2nd tenant or at the very least tell the soccer club any stadium design built on city land with any city funds has to be permanently expandable to 25k in the future. The design essentially gatekeeps the CFL from ever expanding to Halifax

They are proposing to lease the land from the city. The stadium construction itself would not involve public funds, at least according to the initial pitch. So I don't think the municipality has a lot of leverage to make demands.

It's an interesting question how this might be designed to be expandable or if teams could share a venue but it's for the Wanderers and isn't necessarily tied up with any speculative CFL project. I don't think it's actually that true that the CFL hinges on this, a big stadium has to be on this site, or a small CPL stadium means a bigger CFL stadium can't be built for a couple decades, particularly if this doesn't use public funds.