VIA Rail

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I did the trip a number of years ago, but I stopped for a few days in Winnipeg to break it up. It was a good idea, imo.

Took a sleeper compartment recently on the Ocean. Interesting trip, but the train is a rolling antique, at least the section I was in. Three and a half hours late getting in to Halifax.

I suspect VIA is making the Ocean as inconvenient and uncomfortable as humanly possible in order to decrease ridership prior to an application to terminate the service.

3x weekly service is NOT a service. People used to take the Ocean from northern NB to Moncton for hospital appointments and for shopping. Not any more.

The service is almost never on time. Delays lasting hours are the rule rather than the exception.

While the Canadian is well known and advertised, you never hear a whisper about the Ocean. They have removed the domed cars from the Ocean years ago. This was a major feature for tourists using the service.

The sub between Miramichi and Bathurst is in such poor repair, the train is lucky if it maintains a speed of 30-40 km/hr.

This is all a great shame. The Maritimes deserves so much better. The only alternative is Maritime Bus, which while not bad, could have increased frequency and better connections. There is NO regional air travel between Maritime cities.

IF you can't drive a car, you are — out of luck in the Maritimes.

[Curmudgeon]

Above I wrote that the routing of the Canadian through northern Ontario should use the CP mainline as it would serve Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay and Kenora, the major population centres in the region, and Dryden too of course. The current routing serves only one population centre of over 5000, Sioux Lookout. Must have been having a brain freeze and thinking of Hwy 17.

The CP mainline west of Sudbury goes via Chapleau and White River and then on to Thunder Bay, not through the Sault. VIA currently provides service from Sudbury to White River with the Budd Car, officially called the Sudbury–White River train.

[casper]

So it sounds like Carney is going to be in North Bay at Alstom for a major announcement tomorrow.

Now that VIA has an order for engines on the long distance trains, the open question is who is supplying the rail cars? Could be close to finding out?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by casper

So it sounds like Carney is going to be in North Bay at Alstom for a major announcement tomorrow.

Now that VIA has an order for engines on the long distance trains, the open question is who is supplying the rail cars? Could be close to finding out?

I expect the winner of the VIA long-distance passenger fleet replacement program will be announced soon, so this could be it. They did an RFQ recently-ish that bundled the long-distance/rural locomotives and long-distance passenger fleet. The locomotive award was almost exactly along the lines of the RFQ, including the 20 years of in-service support.

EDIT.

Prime Minister Carney announces the largest investment in VIA Rail’s history to bring passenger rail car manufacturing back to Canada

The Prime Minister, Mark Carney, announced that, for the first time in four decades, VIA Rail passenger cars will be built in Canada. The federal government is investing more than $4.7 billion for VIA Rail to acquire and maintain 313 new passenger rail cars from Alstom Canada. The cars will be manufactured and assembled in Thunder Bay, Ontario, and La Pocatière, Québec, with design and engineering work taking place in Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville, Québec.

This is the largest investment in VIA Rail’s history and in Canadian intercity passenger rail in a generation. It will support nearly 700 good jobs in Ontario and Québec, and generate more than $1.6 billion in economic benefits. In line with the Buy Canadian Policy, Alstom will leverage and expand its extensive network of more than 900 Canadian suppliers in delivering the new fleet, while maximising the use of Canadian steel in structural assemblies, supports, and fabricated metal elements.

[...]

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...nounces-largest-investment-rails-history

Teaser renderings are all we have so far:




Source

[casper]

Some more data:

Order contains:

• 78 - Sleeper cars
• 26 - Accessible sleeper cars
• 20 - Prestige sleeper cars
• 19 - Berth cars
• 58 - Coach cars
• 38 - Panorama cars
• 29 - Baggage
• 25 - Dome cars
• 20 - Dining cars

More info at: https://tc.canada.ca/en/rail-transportat...enger-rail-car-manufacturing-back-canada

[hipster duck]

So this is a 1-for-1 replacement of what we run now?

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel like the long distance VIA trains are like the Snowbirds: a feel good national symbol that doesn’t really do anything other than cost money and sap resources from an organization that desperately needs that money to be spent elsewhere.

These are either land cruises for the wealthy or essential services for a very small population that largely lives in the communities they live in by choice.

Railcar manufacturing is not a strategically important industry. We have friendly allies who can do it more cheaply and more competently, and we can probably make favourable trade deals with them to export things that are more productive and beneficial for us. Why are we investing $5 billion on this? There are a lot of orders for rapid transit rolling stock coming down the pipe. Thunder Bay and La Pocartiere will do just fine.

Invest in passenger transport alternatives in provinces that are not Ontario and Quebec. Use existing rolling stock to run the essential services on terms set by the local community or First Nations; get them to run it. Privatize the land cruises. We don’t need to subsidize somebody’s luxury vacation.

[casper]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

So this is a 1-for-1 replacement of what we run now?

If the count on Wikipedia is correct it is clearly an expansion. Maybe 50-70%. Varies a bit by car type.

It get the point it is not focused on the majority of the population. The corridor received its refresh and is getting high speed rail. My hope is this allows Via to expand in other areas.

Amtrak in the US has a model where they operate regional rail under contract or on a shared model for the states. Perhaps we should look at the same in Canada.

[ccnews]

Originally Posted by casper

So it sounds like Carney is going to be in North Bay at Alstom for a major announcement tomorrow.

Now that VIA has an order for engines on the long distance trains, the open question is who is supplying the rail cars? Could be close to finding out?

Prime Minister Carney was in Thunder Bay -

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/t...adar-carney-calls-it-a-priority-12739883

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

So this is a 1-for-1 replacement of what we run now?

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel like the long distance VIA trains are like the Snowbirds: a feel good national symbol that doesn’t really do anything other than cost money and sap resources from an organization that desperately needs that money to be spent elsewhere.

These are either land cruises for the wealthy or essential services for a very small population that largely lives in the communities they live in by choice.

Railcar manufacturing is not a strategically important industry. We have friendly allies who can do it more cheaply and more competently, and we can probably make favourable trade deals with them to export things that are more productive and beneficial for us. Why are we investing $5 billion on this? There are a lot of orders for rapid transit rolling stock coming down the pipe. Thunder Bay and La Pocartiere will do just fine.

Invest in passenger transport alternatives in provinces that are not Ontario and Quebec. Use existing rolling stock to run the essential services on terms set by the local community or First Nations; get them to run it. Privatize the land cruises. We don’t need to subsidize somebody’s luxury vacation.

If its not an expansion, I agree. Will it become just another factory set-up and then closes after the one contract?

[someone123]

I agree, especially about the subsidized land cruise for the wealthy aspect, but I'm interested to see what the service changes could be. It would be useful if it enabled viable frequencies for existing routes (Ocean and maybe some of the connector routes near the main corridor route), opened up some new routes (like Calgary or even a complete southern Prairie route), and went along with infrastructure upgrades for the tracks and cost-sharing agreements with the provinces, with all of that being leveraged into CN/CP agreements.

Another factor is that while $5B sounds like a lot, they say the existing trains are 70 years old. So maybe some of this cost should be thought of as amortized over a very long period. Increasingly these announcements that are mostly about capital spending include maintenance as well, which makes sense but tends to give people sticker shock, particularly when combined with post-covid inflation.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This is all a great shame. The Maritimes deserves so much better. The only alternative is Maritime Bus, which while not bad, could have increased frequency and better connections. There is NO regional air travel between Maritime cities.

It's even more dramatic in Western Canada, but the Halifax-Moncton corridor has grown a lot and now has about 1 million people in the metro areas and along the route. It is a travel "backbone" for the wider region which has over 2 million people, and there are trip generators spaced along the route like YHZ, Truro, and Amherst/Sackville. It's a historic passenger rail route with some service still going today. I think it would end up with solid ridership if there were a decent schedule (1-2 both ways each day), even without any improvements to travel times. If it could be brought down to 2 hours or so it would be a very popular way to travel along this route.

It would be a big plus for tourism as well. Today, if you look at tourist guides they all say you need a car if you come to the region. If some trains covered Halifax-Moncton-SJ with good bus connections to places like PEI and major parks it would change that dynamic.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

I disagree. Canada needs to improve its manufacturing base. Who says that after building these trains we can not find orders from other countries. Just because we have not in the past does not mean we can not in the future. Just because some countries make them cheaper and not better) does not mean that will continue in the future. I do hope that we use Canadian steel and aluminum in making the cars, as theses industries need help in the face of Trump tariffs. These are changing times and dangerous times for us. We need to do things differently---including taking risks that we have not taken before. Let us show the world that we can manufacture quality finished goods and not just be hewers of wood and drawers of water (and oil). We may make some mistakes, but we can not keep the status quo. I applaud this action.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's even more dramatic in Western Canada, but the Halifax-Moncton corridor has grown a lot and now has about 1 million people in the metro areas and along the route. It is a travel "backbone" for the wider region which has over 2 million people, and there are trip generators spaced along the route like YHZ, Truro, and Amherst/Sackville. It's a historic passenger rail route with some service still going today. I think it would end up with solid ridership if there were a decent schedule (1-2 both ways each day), even without any improvements to travel times. If it could be brought down to 2 hours or so it would be a very popular way to travel along this route.

It would be a big plus for tourism as well. Today, if you look at tourist guides they all say you need a car if you come to the region. If some trains covered Halifax-Moncton-SJ with good bus connections to places like PEI and major parks it would change that dynamic.

Ultimately there has been a lot of growth out east but population is still sparse. Moncton is still less than 200,000 people..

You could perhaps make a case for a daily train or two at most.. but even that would likely have limited return.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's even more dramatic in Western Canada, but the Halifax-Moncton corridor has grown a lot and now has about 1 million people in the metro areas and along the route. It is a travel "backbone" for the wider region which has over 2 million people, and there are trip generators spaced along the route like YHZ, Truro, and Amherst/Sackville. It's a historic passenger rail route with some service still going today. I think it would end up with solid ridership if there were a decent schedule (1-2 both ways each day), even without any improvements to travel times. If it could be brought down to 2 hours or so it would be a very popular way to travel along this route.

It would be a big plus for tourism as well. Today, if you look at tourist guides they all say you need a car if you come to the region. If some trains covered Halifax-Moncton-SJ with good bus connections to places like PEI and major parks it would change that dynamic.

I for one would ABSOLUTELY take the train to Halifax from Moncton if it was a convenient option.

- downtown to downtown.
- Able to walk to hotels on both ends of the trip.
- relaxing and comfortable mode of travel
- no real alternative (no air connection from Moncton to Halifax, the bus is, well, the bus).

A viable service would have to be at least daily, and ideally 2x daily. In addition, the trip should be convenient. The travel time should be no more than 3-4 hours and predictable. This means coordination with freight trains so that time spent idling on sidings is minimized.

If you build it, they will come!. Passenger rail outside the corridor just requires a champion.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ultimately there has been a lot of growth out east but population is still sparse. Moncton is still less than 200,000 people..

You could perhaps make a case for a daily train or two at most.. but even that would likely have limited return.

Moncton is probably slightly over 200,000 now.

My scenario would be a daily service from Haifax to Montreal via Moncton (the Ocean), supplemented by a daily regional rail service from Halifax to Saint John via Moncton. This would give the Moncton/Halifax section of the trip 2x daily frequency.

Halifax - 550,000
Truro - 60,000
Amherst/Sackville - 20,000
Moncton - 200,000
Sussex - 15,000
Saint John - 140,000

This gives a corridor population of just about 1M people. I think a Halifax/Moncton/Saint John service can be justified.

- Make the Canadian daily
- Make the Ocean daily
- Establish a southern route in the Prairies, and run it from Winnipeg to Vancouver via Regina, Calgary and Banff. Make it daily
- Establish a daily route from Saint John to Halifax via Moncton.
- Expand intercity routes in central Canada.
- establish a Calgary/Edmonton service and make it multiple times per day

Do this and we would have a NATIONAL rail service to be proud of. And, people WILL use it!

[someone123]

If you look at Alto, it has a proposed budget of $60-90B. The corridor served has around 18 million people in it. It's hard to get accurate initial ridership estimates but they talk about 24 million by 2055 and the discussion is oriented toward a future of long-term growth and investment, which is the right way to frame this kind of infrastructure development.

When you switch gears and look at the Maritimes, that Halifax-Moncton corridor is about 1/18 the scale. Proportional investment would be $3-5B. The projected growth is probably no lower there than in a corridor including Quebec; Moncton might even be the fastest-growing city in the country.

Let's be honest. Even a $1B transportation project for the Maritimes sounds like a pipe dream, though maybe it'll happen someday. It's not all directly applicable but I think there is a double standard and this back-of-the-napkin calculation is revealing.

[MolsonExport]

Australia is building HSR from Brisbane to Melbourne

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Australia is building HSR from Brisbane to Melbourne

They have been thinking about HSR for over 40 years. The federal government's latest proposal as of February 2026 is a link between Sydney and Newcastle to be completed first by 2039, with extensions to Brisbane and Melbourne to come at a later date. The Brisbane to Melbourne idea was considered in the late 2000s, but the $114bn pricetag killed the idea.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Changing City

They have been thinking about HSR for over 40 years. The federal government's latest proposal as of February 2026 is a link between Sydney and Newcastle to be completed first by 2039, with extensions to Brisbane and Melbourne to come at a later date. The Brisbane to Melbourne idea was considered in the late 2000s, but the $114bn pricetag killed the idea.

For comparison this is like having a “plan” for HSR from Windsor to Quebec City, but the first phase will be Toronto to Peterborough and will open in 15 years with no plans for any further work.

Ie it’s not really a real plan.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Moncton is probably slightly over 200,000 now.

My scenario would be a daily service from Haifax to Montreal via Moncton (the Ocean), supplemented by a daily regional rail service from Halifax to Saint John via Moncton. This would give the Moncton/Halifax section of the trip 2x daily frequency.

Halifax - 550,000
Truro - 60,000
Amherst/Sackville - 20,000
Moncton - 200,000
Sussex - 15,000
Saint John - 140,000

This gives a corridor population of just about 1M people. I think a Halifax/Moncton/Saint John service can be justified.

- Make the Canadian daily
- Make the Ocean daily
- Establish a southern route in the Prairies, and run it from Winnipeg to Vancouver via Regina, Calgary and Banff. Make it daily
- Establish a daily route from Saint John to Halifax via Moncton.
- Expand intercity routes in central Canada.
- establish a Calgary/Edmonton service and make it multiple times per day

Do this and we would have a NATIONAL rail service to be proud of. And, people WILL use it!

So this topic actually came up on CBC’s Power & Politics this afternoon. The host asked Steven MacKinnon directly about re-establishing service to Regina, Calgary, Saint John, Fredericton (which has no railways anymore) and on Vancouver Island. His only response is that he’s open to the idea if VIA Rail came to the government with a business case for expanded service.

At least that’s better than a previous transportation minister who responded to a similar question about Regina by saying “Saskatoon already has VIA Rail service”.