CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[twister244]

We're finally getting to the fun part of the airport construction where we actually see the shape of the new Concourse going up........ I'm still a bit skeptical that there will work on E before the year is out. I only say that because they haven't even issued any bids for the work, and it takes a while to get those filled, etc...... I suspect there will be a symbolic ground breaking, with the real work starting during the first half of next year.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by twister244

We're finally getting to the fun part of the airport construction where we actually see the shape of the new Concourse going up........ I'm still a bit skeptical that there will work on E before the year is out. I only say that because they haven't even issued any bids for the work, and it takes a while to get those filled, etc...... I suspect there will be a symbolic ground breaking, with the real work starting during the first half of next year.

Yeah I think the new concourse timeline was aggressively optimistic, especially with winter around the corner (that's also why the superstructure for this part is going up quickly, and will probably be partially enclosed before any freeze commences). But, I would bet money that permitting for E is going on in the background, with plans to get shovels in the ground by April/May.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by sentinel

But, I would bet money that permitting for E is going on in the background, with plans to get shovels in the ground by April/May.

I spoke too soon - https://ahcjv.com/projects/#concourse-e

[dewbs]

There's a lot of activity out there -- I counted 11 cranes. The pace feels like the city casino.

[F1 Tommy]

Mango Tours is offering introductory fairs for the new Philippine Airlines A350 non stop Manila service starting in November.

ORD cargo is also adding new carriers/logistic companies. ORD is starting to kill it again. Does anyone have load factors for the Egypt Air A350 flight to Cairo??

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

I've come around to the idea that low fares may not be worth it if we lose the benefit of being a mega hub. The reason ATL is dominant in many ways is because every flight that lands there can connect somewhere else. If you land on United at ORD, all the American flights--let's call them half--aren't ones you can use on one ticket.

Roughly 80% of ATL’s 2025 passenger traffic was carried by Delta and its affiliates. That concentration has drawbacks for competition, but it's useful. Delta can coordinate arrival times, departure times, gate assignments, aircraft sizes, baggage transfers, crews and maintenance around one integrated network using just about every gate.

O’Hare may have more total flights, but United and American operate two largely separate connecting systems. 500 American flights plus 650 United flights do not produce the same network connectivity as 1,150 flights operated within one network.

It's actually amazing thar ORD performs as well as DFW and DEN considering neither airline can get all the flights they would like, all the connections they would like or make much money. Low fares are great, but if UA could turn a nice profit on their flights at ORD, they would invest in more routes, more infrastructure and more flights. Right now both UA and AA offer a lot with a low profit incentive.

ATL has all those flights and connection because of amazingly good hub geometry combined with Delta's dominance. Chicago is one of the best performing airfields in the world because of good geometry, lots of runways and the attraction of Chicago as a destination and entry point.

Understand your point. I still firmly come down on the side of a fiercely competitive environment is ultimately a superior one. Which is why I'm pulling for American to continue to step it up in numerous ways.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by k1052

Yea that figure is almost certainly not correct and AA does not release that kind of info. Kirby has been saying some version of this for a couple years and the figure keeps mysteriously escalating without any proof. It's self serving for United of course but that's his job.

As for international routes United is adding quite a few but they're almost all out of the east coast hubs to Europe because that's where the best money is. Really the limiting factor is fleet availability and while United has managed their long haul fleet way better than AA they still only have so many planes. Though as they continue to take delivery of the 100 plus more 787s on order that will shift. American made a huge mistake retiring too much of their long haul in the pandemic. Losing the 767-300ERs, 757s, and A330-300s was a disaster for their international traffic once the recovery hit.

Yeah, hopefully there were some high profile firings some years ago at American for just a stupendously bungled strategy. They have a huge widebody order coming shortly, many are speculating they may go for dozens of somewhat more swift to deliver A330 NEOs, as Delta has in their widebody fleet. Could be a split order?

[SamInTheLoop]

What do the ORD watchers on here think about the aspect of the new construction sequencing that has them just building ~60% of E initially? Does that really make sense, if the expectation is truly that within a few years they will finish it? From a logistics/cost escalation perspective, if the whole thing would be needed in that short an additional time period, why not finish it in one go? Is the answer to not allow the airlines any excuse to attempt to push for any further delay of the Global Terminal? If so, I suppose I could get on board with that rationale.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

What do the ORD watchers on here think about the aspect of the new construction sequencing that has them just building ~60% of E initially? Does that really make sense, if the expectation is truly that within a few years they will finish it? From a logistics/cost escalation perspective, if the whole thing would be needed in that short an additional time period, why not finish it in one go? Is the answer to not allow the airlines any excuse to attempt to push for any further delay of the Global Terminal? If so, I suppose I could get on board with that rationale.

It provides enough capacity to get United of out of T2 more quickly at a lower price tag I assume is the logic. E second phase can get finished as traffic demands and all the stuff that tears up taxiways and such will already be done.

[twister244]

Yeah - I've always been confused as to why there was this push to get S1 + OGT before S2 (E). Maybe at that time, UA wasn't expecting AA to respond the way they did with ramping up flights - Leading to a situation where they could straddle losing gates, upgaging flights, etc.....

Just goes to show how hard it is to map out ORD projects when the airlines are constantly shifting their goals, priorities, etc.......