CHICAGO | City Casino

[twister244]

Well now we know why Bally's has been especially angry with the city over video machines.........

[Jstange059]

Apparently someone managed to tag the top of the tower

https://bsky.app/profile/posts-cards.bsky.social/post/3mtc47b672s2q

[dewbs]

Originally Posted by Jstange059

Apparently someone managed to tag the top of the tower

https://bsky.app/profile/posts-cards.bsky.social/post/3mtc47b672s2q

That's the kind of tagging I can get behind. It's somewhere that's going to end up covered anyway, and it's high quality work. Not just a kid with a sharpie.

[Bonsai Tree]

Originally Posted by dewbs

That's the kind of tagging I can get behind. It's somewhere that's going to end up covered anyway, and it's high quality work. Not just a kid with a sharpie.

Be careful what you wish for. I have a bad feeling about the financial troubles Bally's is in.

[Via Chicago]

Yeah this could very easily and very quickly wind up like that LA skyscraper. The things almost done. They really are close to pulling defeat from the jaws of victory and this thing winding up a white elephant eyesore for years. But yeah Bally's looks to be in real serious trouble. Remind me again why we picked the bid that had never built a casino before....

[twister244]

According to the Crains:

The disclosure does not appear to put the Chicago casino’s construction financing immediately at risk: Bally’s has a separate agreement with casino real estate investment trust Gaming & Leisure Properties to provide up to $940 million toward construction of the River West complex taking shape along the Chicago River. But the warning underscores the financial pressures Bally’s faces while trying to finish the project and sparring with the city over video gambling.

Source - https://www.chicagobusiness.com/real-estate/commercial/ccb-ballys-going-concern-warning-20260817/

Regardless of the decision made regarding this casino - I kinda feel like this just emphasizes why projects like these should be viewed with a large grain of salt..... We went through a multi-year process of legalizing gambling in the city.... Going through these shiny presentations and bids..... Only to have a temporary casino in River North that's struggling to meet the numbers it forecasted - And now the potential for this behemoth to start collecting graffiti and dust while Bally's potentially goes out of business.

Our strength is in real projects that get real investment and stick to fundamentals.... Not shiny objects that over-inflate their real economic value (looking at you Bears)........

[left of center]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

Remind me again why we picked the bid that had never built a casino before....

Because their bid was the only one with an upfront cash payment to the city. Literally the main reason. Best case scenario now is that Bally's sells the property to a serious player like Rivers who will be able to finish the project.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by left of center

Because their bid was the only one with an upfront cash payment to the city. Literally the main reason. Best case scenario now is that Bally's sells the property to a serious player like Rivers who will be able to finish the project.

I don't follow the big players in this space, but is someone like Rivers in a financially stable enough position to do this? Seems like a good opportunity for a larger fish to swallow this up, but I have no idea what the landscape of casino companies looks like.....

[r18tdi]

If Bally's runs out of money and the project stalls, maybe someone like Related can buy and finish it 10-20 years later? lol

[Via Chicago]

I just think the whole thing was a massive miscalculation from day 1. Chicago is never going to be a gambling "destination" the way vegas is/was. VGTs at the state level arent going anywhere and there's no question those things suck up a ton of demand. Not to mention the colossal proliferation of gambling apps and "prediction markets". Medinah temple has never come close to hitting its numbers. When it opens this thing never will either. It's clear Bally's is in way over their head esp when you factor in the challenges their projects are having elsewhere

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/ballys-athletics-las-vegas-22308620.php

Stock is down an additional 10% today

[left of center]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

I just think the whole thing was a massive miscalculation from day 1. Chicago is never going to be a gambling "destination" the way vegas is/was. VGTs at the state level arent going anywhere and there's no question those things suck up a ton of demand. Not to mention the colossal proliferation of gambling apps and "prediction markets". Medinah temple has never come close to hitting its numbers. When it opens this thing never will either. It's clear Bally's is in way over their head esp when you factor in the challenges their projects are having elsewhere

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/ballys-athletics-las-vegas-22308620.php

Stock is down an additional 10% today

I don't think anyone was trying to position Chicago as the next Vegas. The goal was more about keeping Chicago area gambling dollars that were already flowing to the NWI casinos on this side of the state line and capturing that tax revenue for Illinois and Chicago.

I don't think Medinah Temple was a great test of the permanent casino's potential. It's far too small and the limited number of table games resulted in higher minimums that make the NWI casinos more attractive to most locals. The revenue estimates were also likely inflated in order to convince the city to give them the temporary license. The full size Tribune site will have way more gaming capacity and in theory should be able to offer lower minimums and do much better against the competition in Indiana.

That said, I agree that Bally's is in way over their heads. The city might need to start hunting for another casino operator behind the scenes to grab the reins once Bally's goes belly up.

[twister244]

What I do see as a silver lining here is the location of what's been built already. If a fully scoped casino doesn't have the numbers to work - Maybe someone can come in and turn the existing space into more of an experience venue of some kind. Given it's proximity to River North, the river, etc - Seems like it's too good of a location just to sit empty......

[dreamy-developer]

Originally Posted by twister244

What I do see as a silver lining here is the location of what's been built already. If a fully scoped casino doesn't have the numbers to work - Maybe someone can come in and turn the existing space into more of an experience venue of some kind. Given it's proximity to River North, the river, etc - Seems like it's too good of a location just to sit empty......

I've always wondered to myself that even in the most opptimistic possibility that they pull this off and open this - and it stays afloat for maybe 1-10 years? but still closes... what do you fill this vacency with?

I could see the theatre and hotel surviving, but the rest of it seems like a massive amount of space to fill

[Via Chicago]

Yeah the ability to support 10 consistently leases restaurants is pure fiction

[BrickellBased]

Originally Posted by dreamy-developer

I've always wondered to myself that even in the most opptimistic possibility that they pull this off and open this - and it stays afloat for maybe 1-10 years? but still closes... what do you fill this vacency with?

I could see the theatre and hotel surviving, but the rest of it seems like a massive amount of space to fill

It would be a perfect convention center with a much better location than McCormick.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

I just think the whole thing was a massive miscalculation from day 1. Chicago is never going to be a gambling "destination" the way vegas is/was. VGTs at the state level arent going anywhere and there's no question those things suck up a ton of demand. Not to mention the colossal proliferation of gambling apps and "prediction markets". Medinah temple has never come close to hitting its numbers. When it opens this thing never will either. It's clear Bally's is in way over their head esp when you factor in the challenges their projects are having elsewhere

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/ballys-athletics-las-vegas-22308620.php

Stock is down an additional 10% today

I think there is demand for a "Vegas-style" operation in Chicago. Other Midwest casinos are either in remote locations or in dying downtowns, but Bally's has the unique advantage of being right next to a thriving downtown that is already a huge tourism draw.

For a decent comparison that is NOT Vegas, Wynn Encore has done pretty well in Boston (Everett) and is now adding two additional hotel towers. Caesars/Harrahs has also done pretty well in New Orleans and has also expanded into multiple hotel towers etc. If you can actually get a casino built in this kind of wealthy area and/or tourism magnet, they can definitely be successful by attracting a different crowd than the usual compulsive gamblers who go to regional casinos.

I agree that Medinah was a miscalculation though. The buildout of the space offers nothing to lure tourists or wealthy folks who have other places to spend their money. And the River North location does not have the convenient parking that the compulsive gamblers want, who are presumably driving in from the burbs or outer neighborhoods. Plus the more nuanced critiques of the table games at Medinah, house rules, etc mentioned above.

[Jstange059]

Originally Posted by ardecila

If they follow the renderings (no guarantees on that), there will be deep clip-on mullions in a bronze tone added to the glass curtainwalls facing the river, and horizontal sunshades added in other parts.

The attachment pieces for these mullion fins are present, so they should indeed be put into place. I definitely think that they will really help add a sense of depth for the facade. Of course can’t tell if said fins will have the bronze tone from this, but they will at least be present

[lakeshoredrive]

I really hope they’ll be able to finish this.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Jstange059

The attachment pieces for these mullion fins are present, so they should indeed be put into place. I definitely think that they will really help add a sense of depth for the facade. Of course can’t tell if said fins will have the bronze tone from this, but they will at least be present

Thanks. They need a mullion cap either way (unless they switched to a silicone glazing) but it's very common to VE out the custom extrusions and just use a generic mullion cap. Fingers crossed they match the renderings...

[Jstange059]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Thanks. They need a mullion cap either way (unless they switched to a silicone glazing) but it's very common to VE out the custom extrusions and just use a generic mullion cap. Fingers crossed they match the renderings...

The attachment points are not present on this part of the curtain walls, where the extended bronze mullion caps are not present in the renderings, so it will be at least a different window system.

The one place where I did notice a notable difference from the rendering is here, where they have the cladding come down in what feels like a much less satisfying way