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  #81  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2026, 1:15 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Originally Posted by softee View Post
^ I watch that channel regularly & I commented on that video when it came out. I often sense a slight bias against Toronto since their content is often made up of videos praising the urbanism of home base Montreal.
Toronto is clearly the primate city of English-speaking Canada, the standard to which others are often compared.

When Vancouverites and Montreal anglos want to hype their cities, there's often a defensiveness about why they're better than Toronto. I say Montreal anglos specifically because Toronto is clearly on the radar, but Montreal is the primate city for francophones in Canada.
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  #82  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2026, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
That's great except a) Eastern NA cities didn't have the same density as one another at the time. Perhaps Toronto was in line with the average, but NYC had far higher than others, and Montreal would have had notably higher density than Toronto since Toronto didn't have very many residential highrises then. Philadelphia and several other eastern cities would also have had higher lowrise density.

And b) eastern NA is one small pocket of the globe, and other than NYC isn't a region known for especially dense cities. Denser than more western NA cities, but that's not really an accomplishment. So it isn't clear why that comparison is terribly relevant. Most eastern NA cities were also house-dominated, so it having similar historic density as other house-dominated cities doesn't really refute the fact that house-dominated lowrise form isn't as dense as more mid-scale lowrise form.

And c) Toronto wasn't nearly as large or globally prominent as it is now, so having average-ish regional characteristics as an average-ish regional center isn't that relevant to the current situation. It's now often viewed as an above average global city that people expect to have above average, global city characteristics. Which is reflected in the type of cities it gets compared to. And in many respects that's fine as in many ways it can hold its own. But in other ways, its not-so-distant past as a more modest regional center becomes apparent. Every city has its strengths and weaknesses.
Toronto and Montreal city propers had similar density at mid-century, but a more meaningful comparison I think is adding the urbanized municipalities to Toronto. If one does that, Montreal was ahead, no doubt.

As for the "Toronto is a global city now" argument, that makes little sense to me. Why should cities have to follow some template? In certain quarters of the Internet you'll hear complaints about "SFHs so close to downtown" or how the Annex, Little Italy, Parkdale etc. lack "missing middle" and are "not dense enough."

* ETA: It seems like half of the "more density" crowd are missing middle fans, the other half don't care and would happily tear down everything in the Annex and replace it with high rises.

Last edited by Docere; Aug 22, 2026 at 1:36 PM. Reason: a
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  #83  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2026, 1:59 PM
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But going back to the "Toronto's density drops off quickly, while Chicago stays dense" claim, I don't think that's accurate.

The key point it misses is that downtown Toronto is quite a bit denser than downtown Chicago. It's not because Toronto's urban neighborhoods beyond downtown are less dense. North Side neighborhoods like Albany Park and Logan Square are similar to low rise inner Toronto neighborhoods in density, and the North Side lakefront neighborhoods like Lake View and Edgewater have a significant number of high rises.

Last edited by Docere; Aug 22, 2026 at 2:29 PM.
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  #84  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2026, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
As for the "Toronto is a global city now" argument, that makes little sense to me. Why should cities have to follow some template? In certain quarters of the Internet you'll hear complaints about "SFHs so close to downtown" or how the Annex, Little Italy, Parkdale etc. lack "missing middle" and are "not dense enough."
Because urban enthusiasts (and many ordinary people) tend to prefer middle scale lowrise form, and in the Western world, larger cities tend to have a greater ability to support that and offer the best examples of it It isn't that a city needs to do any particular thing. You can have equal or greater density with houses and highrises depending on how many highrises there are. But people find middle scale preferable and notice when a city has less of it than they'd like or expect. Nothing terribly mysterious or perplexing about it.
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  #85  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2026, 4:15 PM
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I posted this on the City Discussions thread but it's very relevant here too - there's a cool map that was posted on reddit for new multiplex construction in Toronto: https://malcolmkennedy.com/to-multiplex-map/

The City legalized 4 units as-of-right in 2023 and this was upped to 6 units in Wards that have opted-in. Which basically encompass Old Toronto and one in Scarborough. Laneway and garden suites were legalized a bit earlier. On top of this the City has waived development charges on multiplex construction. Coupled with a drop in housing prices these are becoming more viable, particular on busier streets and properties that would otherwise be teardowns. Just anecdotally from walking around as a planning nerd who always checked building permits when I see construction / renovation near me the needle has moved from almost all SFH renos to 50/50 that and multiplex conversion.

While the number of units isn't much compared to big highrise projects it's growing exponentially. And perhaps more importantly the units created tend to be significantly larger than what you'd find in a highrise and very well suited for couples and families. The vast majority are rental but a few are condo tenure - it's much harder in Ontario to do this for small projects with our condominium corporation legislation. That's something I'd like to see increase as we are hoping to buy in the city in the next year or two and it would be a great option as we don't need a huge place (no kids).
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  #86  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2026, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
I posted this on the City Discussions thread but it's very relevant here too - there's a cool map that was posted on reddit for new multiplex construction in Toronto: https://malcolmkennedy.com/to-multiplex-map/

The City legalized 4 units as-of-right in 2023 and this was upped to 6 units in Wards that have opted-in. Which basically encompass Old Toronto and one in Scarborough. Laneway and garden suites were legalized a bit earlier. On top of this the City has waived development charges on multiplex construction. Coupled with a drop in housing prices these are becoming more viable, particular on busier streets and properties that would otherwise be teardowns. Just anecdotally from walking around as a planning nerd who always checked building permits when I see construction / renovation near me the needle has moved from almost all SFH renos to 50/50 that and multiplex conversion.
Good map. The activity is a lot more evenly distributed than I thought. In fact, if the area has a conspicuous lack of dots, it's either a very affluent neighbourhood, or non-residential.

The map might still be an undercount. I can think of 2 multiplex projects within a 5 minute walk of my house that are active construction sites that aren't shown as either an orange or blue dot.
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  #87  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2026, 4:45 PM
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/\/\ that's a fantastic visualization, thanks for sharing. I see his site has a couple other interesting maps as well https://malcolmkennedy.com/
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  #88  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2026, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Good map. The activity is a lot more evenly distributed than I thought. In fact, if the area has a conspicuous lack of dots, it's either a very affluent neighbourhood, or non-residential.

The map might still be an undercount. I can think of 2 multiplex projects within a 5 minute walk of my house that are active construction sites that aren't shown as either an orange or blue dot.
Yeah there's a few near me that are under active construction which aren't on the map too. It's interesting how completed projects are heavily in the West / East End older areas but new permits are popping up everywhere. I could see projects making a lot of sense in areas like Mount Dennis but I was surprised at how many there are in the inner-suburbs.

It's also possible some are over 6 units and fall into the multi-res category so aren't captured on the map. I can think of a few 8-12 unit walkup buildings near me that have gone up recently or are in the process of finishing up.

As an aside I had to drive to New Toronto a couple months ago to the new Purolator facility and there seemed to be a ton multiplexes under construction, but again, maybe they are over 6 units. I Should be great for that area and hopefully help Lakeshore businesses.
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  #89  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2026, 9:09 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Vancouver has a lot of duplexes.
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