Statistics Canada Reports II

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'd consider Avi and PP to be in completely different situations with PP having a similar problem now that Singh had back in the Trudeau era. Mainly since Carney is governing from the centre right and doing a lot of the stuff a Conservative PM would be doing. Focusing on business and trade, cutting taxes, mostly forgetting about climate change or other environmental issues, and even making pipeline deals that Smith is happy with. Other than maybe the culture war stuff depending on the hypothetical Conservative, the right is in the position of getting much of what they want so it's increasingly difficult to find stuff to complain about. So PP is stuck desperately trying to grasp at straws and outright lie.

In the Trudeau era, a similar thing happened in the the LPC shifted to the left in their campaigning and rhetoric which squeezed the NDP. A lot of it was just rhetoric and optics in that case, but the NDP was still in the position of trying to find a lane through which to differentiate themselves and communicate that to voters. Avi, on the other hand, has a much easier job in that the left flank is now wide open. His challenges is in the rally around the flag effect in that people are willing to put up with more domestic stuff they don't like because of the international circumstances and wanting solidarity. And with Carney's credentials and international connections, many are willing to give him some leeway... at least for awhile.

The Bloomberg report is pretty positive.

Been watching some talking heads down south and comments on how Canada is turning away from the US. How in 2-5 years the US will not be able to regain the losses. And with more of our O&G heading over seas, the era of cheap Canadian oil is going away.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'd consider Avi and PP to be in completely different situations with PP having a similar problem now that Singh had back in the Trudeau era. Mainly since Carney is governing from the centre right and doing a lot of the stuff a Conservative PM would be doing. Focusing on business and trade, cutting taxes, mostly forgetting about climate change or other environmental issues, and even making pipeline deals that Smith is happy with. Other than maybe the culture war stuff depending on the hypothetical Conservative, the right is in the position of getting much of what they want so it's increasingly difficult to find stuff to complain about. So PP is stuck desperately trying to grasp at straws and outright lie.

In the Trudeau era, a similar thing happened in the the LPC shifted to the left in their campaigning and rhetoric which squeezed the NDP. A lot of it was just rhetoric and optics in that case, but the NDP was still in the position of trying to find a lane through which to differentiate themselves and communicate that to voters. Avi, on the other hand, has a much easier job in that the left flank is now wide open. His challenges is in the rally around the flag effect in that people are willing to put up with more domestic stuff they don't like because of the international circumstances and wanting solidarity. And with Carney's credentials and international connections, many are willing to give him some leeway... at least for awhile.

The Bloomberg report is pretty positive.

Been watching some talking heads down south and comments on how Canada is turning away from the US. How in 2-5 years the US will not be able to regain the losses. And with more of our O&G heading over seas, the era of cheap Canadian oil is going away.

[SFUVancouver]

^ I saw an interview on Bloomberg where they talked about Canada attracting historic and potentially unprecedented foreign direct investment (FDI). That made me wonder where all that is landing? Is foreign purchase of Canadian securities considered FDI? How about purchases of government debt? Has there been a groundswell of foreign investment in mining, energy, and P3 infrastructure projects that isn't sufficiently public-facing to make it into the public zeitgeist?

An example of the latter was when the Oil Sands was scaling up in the 2000s and tens of billions of investment was being reflected by the giant sucking sound of skilled heavy equipment operators, pipe fitters, welders, etc., from across the country (and abroad) being lured from their former jobs to work in Fort Mac.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The term 'visible minority' is arguably even more egregious. Visibly a minority to whom? 'White' people?

The term might be less problematic if Statistics Canada classified 'white' people as visible minorities in Brampton. South Asians are the majority at 52.4% of the population and Europeans sit 2nd at 18.9%. Visible minority is exactly what people of European stock are in Brampton (they're visibly not South Asian) but Statistics Canada doesn't stay consistent and call them that.

They should have been retired the term decades ago just like we no longer use the term 'eskimo'.

Not sure why people are surprised or unaware of Statcan's use of the term "Visible Minority" in a thread about...Statistics Canada.

The youngest age cohort in 2021 was 1/3 visible minority and 8% Indigenous, while the 65+ cohort was 14% visible minority and 2.5% Indigenous. Black Canadians and Indigenous peoples are the youngest populations.

It'll be interesting to see next census. I'm guessing South Asians might be approaching 10% of the population, and Blacks are likely to surpass Chinese for second largest minority group.

[craner]

July employment data revealed

http://https://www.wealthprofessional.ca/news/industry-news/july-employment-data-revealed/393221

[jc_yyc_ca]

Comparison of tech jobs in the big six metros and KW. I'll paste in a screenshot as it easier. good growth for Toronto, Montreal and Calgary



Source SRC
Source Livewire article
Source CBRE
Source CBRE

Edit: This post is showing 'Last edited by a BlaineN' because I (BlaineN) accidentally hit edit instead of quote when replying to the post. Original content is still intact

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

Comparison of tech jobs in the big six metros and KW. I'll paste in a screenshot as it easier. good growth for Toronto, Montreal and Calgary

Source SRC
Source Livewire article
Source CBRE
Source CBRE

According to the article, Calgary has led tech talent growth for three years in a row. Not exactly sure what they mean by 'tech talent growth', but it sounds very positive. I know a tech company Fortinet recently bought an entire office building in DT Calgary and is building a data centre and adding some other stuff, and Mphasis has moved into the former Telus building.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Docere

Not sure why people are surprised or unaware of Statcan's use of the term "Visible Minority" in a thread about...Statistics Canada..

I'm neither surprised or unaware. My post was CLEARLY a criticism of Statistics Canada for still using a term that's both outdated and problematic. Organizations and government are notoriously bureaucratic places and often only make changes when pressured to do so. I won't use the term but others are, of course, free to take direction from them if they so choose.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I'm neither surprised or unaware. My post was CLEARLY a criticism of Statistics Canada for still using a term that's both outdated and problematic. Organizations and government are notoriously bureaucratic places and often only make changes when pressured to do so. I won't use the term but others are, of course, free to take direction from them if they so choose.

It's not clear what you would replace the term with - the alternatives are equally contentious. The Employment Act, and Statistics Canada both use the term 'visible minority' to refer to people who are neither white, or indigenous. In the 2021 census responses, 26.53% of the total population identified as 'visible minority', so they do represent a minority of the Canadian population (even if they don't in some locations).

There's awareness that to some people that's a problematic term, and Statistics Canada initiated a review in 2019, with the Government announcing the creation of a task force in 2022 to review the Employment Equity Act to study whether the term “visible minority” should be replaced.

A Leger-ACS survey asked which term makes the most sense when referring to people who are Black or Asian. Across Canada, 43.6% expressed a preference for 'persons of colour' followed by 30.2% for visible minorities, 10.7% preferring 'non-white', and 'racialized groups' preferred by just 8.6%.

However, among Black and Asian respondents there was a significantly greater preference for 'visible minority' than for 'persons of colour'. White and aboriginal respondents preferred 'persons of colour' by an equally clear margin. People born outside Canada had a slightly greater preference for 'visible minority' than for 'persons of colour'.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

Comparison of tech jobs in the big six metros and KW. I'll paste in a screenshot as it easier. good growth for Toronto, Montreal and Calgary



Source SRC
Source Livewire article
Source CBRE
Source CBRE

Edit: This post is showing 'Last edited by a BlaineN' because I (BlaineN) accidentally hit edit instead of quote when replying to the post. Original content is still intact

This is interesting to me because Kitchener is so low. It's funny because tech is such a visually dominating industry in the city - the two largest office buildings have Google and Oracle logos up top, tech offices are everywhere, there are massive tech incubator buildings which are bustling places, the local university pumps out more tech talent than almost any other school globally.. yet Calgary has more tech jobs. KWC's entire economy seems focused around tech these days yet it posts relatively small employment numbers.

I understand that KWC is a smaller metro and as such is expected to have less overall. I guess maybe it should be viewed more as a percentage of total employment, in which case it would probably come out on top..

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

This is interesting to me because Kitchener is so low. It's funny because tech is such a visually dominating industry in the city - the two largest office buildings have Google and Oracle logos up top, tech offices are everywhere, there are massive tech incubator buildings which are bustling places, the local university pumps out more tech talent than almost any other school globally.. yet Calgary has more tech jobs. KWC's entire economy seems focused around tech these days yet it posts relatively small employment numbers.

I understand that KWC is a smaller metro and as such is expected to have less overall. I guess maybe it should be viewed more as a percentage of total employment, in which case it would probably come out on top..

KWC is definitely a tech hub, more so than a city like Calgary, but keep in mind 'tech' covers a lot of things. Calgary has a good sized fin-tech industry with around 16,000 jobs and 150 companies. Four of those fin-tech companies are valued at billion dollars or more, but most people here on the forum have probably never heard of them. It's a substantial part of the tech workforce, but it doesn't really scream 'tech'. People generally think of Google or Meta, etc.. Another point to consider is an area like KWC pumps out a lot of tech grads, but many of those people will get jobs in other cities. It is part of KWC's ranking, but doesn't automatically translate to jobs.

The real story is the ranking, with KWC 10th in North America, despite having only a fraction of Montreal's workforce or half of Calgary's.


As far as raw workforce numbers go, here are all the Canada US cities with a workforce over 20K, you can see where Canadian cities rank in terms of raw numbers. Canada does well. Toronto is on a path to overtake the Bay area soon.



Source https://www.cbre.com/insights/books/scoring-tech-talent-2026

[ericmacm]

Toronto coming close to overtaking the Bay Area for tech workforce is insane. It’s clear though that Dallas and Seattle have been eating away at the Bay Area for at least a few years now and that trend is probably not slowing down anytime soon.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

This is interesting to me because Kitchener is so low. It's funny because tech is such a visually dominating industry in the city - the two largest office buildings have Google and Oracle logos up top, tech offices are everywhere, there are massive tech incubator buildings which are bustling places, the local university pumps out more tech talent than almost any other school globally.. yet Calgary has more tech jobs. KWC's entire economy seems focused around tech these days yet it posts relatively small employment numbers.

I understand that KWC is a smaller metro and as such is expected to have less overall. I guess maybe it should be viewed more as a percentage of total employment, in which case it would probably come out on top..

It's probably more of a case of KW's tech industry being higher profile companies, like the ones you mentioned (Google and Oracle). The other side of it is that Calgary's tech boom is relatively new (jumping from 40K to 80K jobs in only 5 years). Being so recent most people on SSP outside of the Calgary folks probably aren't aware of it.
A big driver behind this is Venture Capital money. Calgary has been 4th for VC money in the past 5 years, getting almost 90% of Alberta's VC funding. It' been running neck and neck with Vancouver and not far off from Montreal. Most of the VC money has been going to the tech side.
As Surrealplaces mentioned though, KW still has a higher ranking than Calgary with the rankings taking in other factors besides job numbers.

[someone123]

What is "tech"? Some seem to include IT, which doesn't generally involve developing new technology. Software development may or may not. If we're talking about "working with technology" then this includes all of humanity and perhaps some other primates. Does tech include a call centre worker? How do they survey smaller operations, like somebody who's got a computer science degree and is writing a game in their parents' basement?

Maybe they should be clearer about what they are measuring, like if they are interested in software development. You could measure something like "employment software companies with more than 10 employees".

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Toronto coming close to overtaking the Bay Area for tech workforce is insane. It’s clear though that Dallas and Seattle have been eating away at the Bay Area for at least a few years now and that trend is probably not slowing down anytime soon.

Interesting to see cities like SF and Washington losing people. I'm betting it has to do with cost of living, but then again Seattle, Toronto Vancouver, and NYC aren't cheap either.

On the flip side some of the cheaper cities are losing jobs. Phoenix, Atlanta, and here in Canada, Edmonton.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Toronto coming close to overtaking the Bay Area for tech workforce is insane. It’s clear though that Dallas and Seattle have been eating away at the Bay Area for at least a few years now and that trend is probably not slowing down anytime soon.

But it's likely still no contest in terms of HQs and employment opportunities at the upper end. Toronto, and any Canadian city, will likely skew more toward low to mid level career and dreary generic IT operations that have nothing to do with a higher-end engineering or management role at a top company. I am sure it also has its ecosystem of mid-sized places and startups, but Canada seems to struggle to grow major global companies in new industries.

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by someone123

What is "tech"? Some seem to include IT, which doesn't generally involve developing new technology. Software development may or may not. If we're talking about "working with technology" then this includes all of humanity and perhaps some other primates. Does tech include a call centre worker? How do they survey smaller operations, like somebody who's got a computer science degree and is writing a game in their parents' basement?

Maybe they should be clearer about what they are measuring, like if they are interested in software development. You could measure something like "employment software companies with more than 10 employees".

It's fairly clear in their definition when you read through it, and reports from previous years. The jobs they are talking about aren't low level operational jobs. They define tech as engineers, software development, and decision makers jobs. It does not include call centre jobs, or regular IT support, ie.. people fixing computers, etc.

Originally Posted by someone123

But it's likely still no contest in terms of HQs and employment opportunities at the upper end. Toronto, and any Canadian city, will likely skew more toward low to mid level career and dreary generic IT operations that have nothing to do with a higher-end engineering or management role at a top company. I am sure it also has its ecosystem of mid-sized places and startups, but Canada seems to struggle to grow major global companies in new industries.

No, it's still mostly higher end jobs, but yes, in places like SF Bay there are more top end high level scientists than say Toronto or Montreal. Canada does struggle on the global scene in some ways, but does well in other ways. Fortinet for example is listed as a California based company, but really the bulk of their operations and scientific research side is done here in Vancouver.

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

Interesting to see cities like SF and Washington losing people. I'm betting it has to do with cost of living, but then again Seattle, Toronto Vancouver, and NYC aren't cheap either.

On the flip side some of the cheaper cities are losing jobs. Phoenix, Atlanta, and here in Canada, Edmonton.

High tech jobs are rarely tied to a city's cost of living. Ironically, it's usually the opposite.
The two biggest factors are local talent and business environment. You could also factor in a city's culture and lifestyle options. It doesn't always translate, but it helps.

[someone123]

It's not clear when you dig in a bit. For example, CBRE has "How is Tech Talent quality vs. cost measured?". They answer that there isn't a good way so their proxy is that they picked the top 5 CS schools in Canada as measured by the U.S. News & World Report. So whatever cities have one or more of those institutions will get a big bump and #6 counts for nothing.

They have an AI section because AI is trendy and it shows the SF Bay Area has around 3x the AI employment of Toronto. This might be a bit of a proxy for people working in newer areas.

Fortinet is a good example where they maintain their HQ in the US. It's not a top tier company. Vancouver has only in the last few years gotten relatively small development offices for some of the major tech companies. Some of these were to manage visa issues with the USA; Canadians were expected to move to Washington or California.

It's interesting to discuss but quasi-arbitrary composite metrics are often much lower in quality than other data (real data?).

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

I know a tech company Fortinet recently bought an entire office building in DT Calgary and is building a data centre and adding some other stuff, and Mphasis has moved into the former Telus building.

I'm familiar with both of those.

Fortinet bought a 10 storey building in Calgary and they are building a data centre on a couple of floors. It'll be their own data centre used for internet traffic analysis. To my knowledge they are only using 4 or 5 floors and will be sharing floor space with some other tech companies. They are turning it into a global tech hub though, adding to their existing ones in Sunnyvale, Chicago and Burnaby. This is a solid win for Calgary.

Mphasis is more hype than anything to be honest. They have a couple of floors of space in downtown Calgary, and at least count around 180 employees, but there was talk of 'up to 1,000 jobs' among other hyped up statements. Their also a sweatshop out of India, so probably no real win in this one.