Alto High Speed Rail

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I asked that question to the person weighing luggage because it seems like a waste of time when it matters very little on a heavy train plus people wheel their own luggage in anyway.

I used to take the train to catch a flight from Dorval but there’s no way I would or could do that now if I had luggage. Orleans Express takes two pieces of luggage no questions asked plus they drop you directly at the terminal doors.

I also used to like to take the train to Montreal or Toronto with my Brompton bike which folds down to the size of a suitcase. VIA now wants $25 just because it’s a bike. Any bus I’ve taken anywhere in Ontario and Quebec has carried it for free as part of my baggage allowance.

Yeah I always take the bus now. It's just easier if you are leaving from downtown Ottawa without the bus station the stops are very convenient. LRT to Via is pretty quick but you also need to be there a bit early. With the bus I leave my house literally 10 minutes before departure time. Via is somewhat competitive on price if you book well in advance but the bus is a fraction of the cost for more last minute trips. The bus certainly has a larger modal share at this point after nearly disappearing for awhile.

Price will be key for Alito to get market share especially to get people out of their cars given that many trips will require transport on both ends that destroys any time advantage.

[Richard Eade]

I agree about luggage on VIA Rail. It has gotten silly. It defeats the point of a train.

I asked about baggage at the ALTO open house, and was told that there had been little specific thought about taking bags. The person expected that there would be a small area at one end of the car for storing bags – similar to the high-speed trains in Europe. I suggested two things:

1. Add a baggage car for larger items AND for carrying small- to medium-sized packages between cities. Buses (used to) do this. I could take a package to the depot and have it put on the bus to, say, Sudbury. There it would be held at the desk for pick-up. It was convenient and cheap. ALTO could use a system like that to provide an additional revenue stream. At 1-2 hours between cities, it would be great for fast delivery of parts.
   
2. Increase any luggage storage area in the cars. Yes, I know that this might take away passenger seats, but, depending on where the ALTO trains stop, the trains might be well used for connections to other transportation hubs (especially to airports). I have travelled on high-speed trains in a few European countries, and the luggage storage is ALWAYS over-flowing, making it a safety hazard. And, people like to stay near their bags, meaning a bunch of tourists standing around in the aisles, again, creating a safety problem. With more thought, there might be ways to create storage spots that are near seats. (Perhaps separate the back-to-back seats a bit so that suitcases can slide in between them, for example.)

Each mode of transportation has benefits and drawbacks. They need to make sure that the new ALTO trains have more of the former, and fewer of the latter.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I agree about luggage on VIA Rail. It has gotten silly. It defeats the point of a train.

I asked about baggage at the ALTO open house, and was told that there had been little specific thought about taking bags. The person expected that there would be a small area at one end of the car for storing bags – similar to the high-speed trains in Europe. I suggested two things:

1. Add a baggage car for larger items AND for carrying small- to medium-sized packages between cities. Buses (used to) do this. I could take a package to the depot and have it put on the bus to, say, Sudbury. There it would be held at the desk for pick-up. It was convenient and cheap. ALTO could use a system like that to provide an additional revenue stream. At 1-2 hours between cities, it would be great for fast delivery of parts.
   
2. Increase any luggage storage area in the cars. Yes, I know that this might take away passenger seats, but, depending on where the ALTO trains stop, the trains might be well used for connections to other transportation hubs (especially to airports). I have travelled on high-speed trains in a few European countries, and the luggage storage is ALWAYS over-flowing, making it a safety hazard. And, people like to stay near their bags, meaning a bunch of tourists standing around in the aisles, again, creating a safety problem. With more thought, there might be ways to create storage spots that are near seats. (Perhaps separate the back-to-back seats a bit so that suitcases can slide in between them, for example.)

Each mode of transportation has benefits and drawbacks. They need to make sure that the new ALTO trains have more of the former, and fewer of the latter.

I recently travelled highspeed in Italy, and there was sufficient baggage storage under the seats and in overhead racks in additional to common baggage areas at the entrance to each car. That seemed to work fine with regards to boarding speed / convenience.

[Richard Eade]

I’m assuming that you were traveling in a small group, dougvdh. I went Venice (magical), Bologna (Lamborghini & Ferrari), Florence (art), and Rome (culture – and if you are there, try to do a night tour of the Colosseum, for a whole different feel compared to daylight tours) by high-speed train, and there was limited space for large suitcases. Admittedly, I was in a group of 14, so we had a lot to do with overwhelming the storage space, but the luggage areas were usually full when we boarded. Yes, carry-on bags can go in the racks above, but large suitcases can not.

It is probably that my take on things was influenced by my experience in a large group, but even on a different solo trip between Florence and Rome there was a group of Germans sitting on their bags in the aisle of the luggage storage area. If the trains are expected to carry a lot of tourists with luggage, then there needs to be proper space allotted for the bags. This is why I suggest trying to customize the interior layout to find additional niches.

[acottawa]

Best option for European train travel is 30-40 litre travel pack. You can usually fit it somewhere even if luggage options are full.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I’m assuming that you were traveling in a small group, dougvdh. I went Venice (magical), Bologna (Lamborghini & Ferrari), Florence (art), and Rome (culture – and if you are there, try to do a night tour of the Colosseum, for a whole different feel compared to daylight tours) by high-speed train, and there was limited space for large suitcases. Admittedly, I was in a group of 14, so we had a lot to do with overwhelming the storage space, but the luggage areas were usually full when we boarded. Yes, carry-on bags can go in the racks above, but large suitcases can not.

It is probably that my take on things was influenced by my experience in a large group, but even on a different solo trip between Florence and Rome there was a group of Germans sitting on their bags in the aisle of the luggage storage area. If the trains are expected to carry a lot of tourists with luggage, then there needs to be proper space allotted for the bags. This is why I suggest trying to customize the interior layout to find additional niches.

I was traveling in a group of four (family). Full trains in all cases (we traveled into Rome during the Rome marathon weekend). However, we were only in Italy for a couple weeks, so we weren't traveling with huge suitcases.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I agree about luggage on VIA Rail. It has gotten silly. It defeats the point of a train.

I asked about baggage at the ALTO open house, and was told that there had been little specific thought about taking bags. The person expected that there would be a small area at one end of the car for storing bags – similar to the high-speed trains in Europe. I suggested two things:

1. Add a baggage car for larger items AND for carrying small- to medium-sized packages between cities. Buses (used to) do this. I could take a package to the depot and have it put on the bus to, say, Sudbury. There it would be held at the desk for pick-up. It was convenient and cheap. ALTO could use a system like that to provide an additional revenue stream. At 1-2 hours between cities, it would be great for fast delivery of parts.
   
2. Increase any luggage storage area in the cars. Yes, I know that this might take away passenger seats, but, depending on where the ALTO trains stop, the trains might be well used for connections to other transportation hubs (especially to airports). I have travelled on high-speed trains in a few European countries, and the luggage storage is ALWAYS over-flowing, making it a safety hazard. And, people like to stay near their bags, meaning a bunch of tourists standing around in the aisles, again, creating a safety problem. With more thought, there might be ways to create storage spots that are near seats. (Perhaps separate the back-to-back seats a bit so that suitcases can slide in between them, for example.)

Each mode of transportation has benefits and drawbacks. They need to make sure that the new ALTO trains have more of the former, and fewer of the latter.

VIA's moronic policy comes from being capacity limited. They are selling those seats. And they can't add trains to sell more. So they are motivated to nickel and dime like this. I'm not sure Alto will face the same constraint.

I don't think I've ever seen HSR with luggage cars. I have heard of dedicated bicycle cars or even room for bicycles in the vestibule. But really this is stuff to decide when buying rolling stock. That's at least half a decade out.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I also used to like to take the train to Montreal or Toronto with my Brompton bike which folds down to the size of a suitcase. VIA now wants $25 just because it’s a bike. Any bus I’ve taken anywhere in Ontario and Quebec has carried it for free as part of my baggage allowance.

That's definitely a change because they only used to apply a bike fee to non-folding bikes!

[ponyboycurtis]

Nothing overly revealing in this video but a pretty good overview of VIA Rails past and what may come forward with Alto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDdAzVApWIs

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Nothing overly revealing in this video but a pretty good overview of VIA Rails past and what may come forward with Alto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDdAzVApWIs

Good rundown of the history and how the feds painted themselves into the corner they are now in

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by MarkR

That's definitely a change because they only used to apply a bike fee to non-folding bikes!

Put it in a bag next time and carry it on as luggage. As long as it doesn't violate there rules about prohibited items in luggage, you don't need to tell them what it is.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by dougvdh

Put it in a bag next time and carry it on as luggage. As long as it doesn't violate there rules about prohibited items in luggage, you don't need to tell them what it is.

Except they also charge $25 for the size of luggage that the bikes fit in. Anything over 25 x 16 x 12 inches is now $25.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Except they also charge $25 for the size of luggage that the bikes fit in. Anything over 25 x 16 x 12 inches is now $25.

Dang.. I guess I am automatically DQ.

[Truenorth00]

The NIMBY's are useful for something.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The NIMBY's are useful for something.

Looks like they are exploring a corridor that roughly follows highway 2 and highway 10. If that's correct, the PRT corridor is not the target route.

[zzptichka]

Went bikepacking on the weekend and between Smith Falls and Kingston these signs are everywhere along Cataraqui trail:

[lrt's friend]

This will always be an urban versus rural issue. This was always inevitable. I just hope that the we realize the need to move more people more efficiently, and that we can get past all the objections while delivering sufficient mitigation to soften the impact for rural residents. It is critical to maintain property access for farmers and to offer an enhanced adjacent trail for cyclists and hikers.

[Ottawacurious]

Maybe urban vs rural. I think it'll also be an impacted vs not impacted. I'll suggest that it might also divide amongst informed vs less informed.

I loved the idea of it but as I dug into it, have really started to question the decision. I now feel there are (better) options available.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Ottawacurious

Maybe urban vs rural. I think it'll also be an impacted vs not impacted. I'll suggest that it might also divide amongst informed vs less informed.

I loved the idea of it but as I dug into it, have really started to question the decision. I now feel there are (better) options available.

Details of available options?

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Details of available options?

Options based on VIA and CN not having to share tracks, options include:

1 - VIA rail could run faster on tracks it did not have to share with existing rolling stock.

2 - you could rip up existing VIA rail tracks and do the whole high speed rail in the corridor that VIA currently uses.