Rideau-Sussex Redesign/Public Square | Proposed

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I don't know what everyone's complaining about. Now that there's an east bound bikepath painted on the southerly lane of the overpass on Rideau, pedestrians can EASILY just scoot along the pedestrian railings intended to keep them out of traffic, shuffle down the bike path, sashay over sussex, and pop right into the rideau centre no problem. No need to descend the stairs at all! (sarasm).

Also, sorry to sh*tpost like this but...

Can we not just extend the side of Rideau Street by another 10 feet to the south, and just install a f*cking sidewalk already? Do pedestrians walking through the underpass need a 20 foot right-of-way, can it not be shrunk just a bit? How hard is it to install a retaining wall and backfill to install a sidewalk along the full southern lane of Rideau (Exactly adjacent to the bike path installed so cyclists can go full speed into the rideau centre entrance doors). I'm proposing where the stairs are now, and roughly where the railing is now for the ramp down the underpass, just backfill that area to raise it to Rideau Street level, and put a crosswalk across the overpass ramp, same as there's a bike path crosswalk now.

Instead, no, we must completely spend $20M rebuilding the intersection.

Your plan would be an improvement, but it's definitely a stopgap. The point of the reconstruction is to remove the underpass, get rid of what is essentially a highway off-ramp in the middle of the busiest part of the city, and to create a new public space. This is an important intersection for the city and the country - it is worth doing it right.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It's a lot of local traffic and relatively uncongested as for most going the whole legnth of Rideau street doesn't make sense. It was closed for many years and the detour was annoying and probably added traffic to the actual market which is where they should use rules to lower traffic volumes.

Thank you. I never understood why people keep calling for the closure of Rideau Street to cars. It's one of the very few streets that connect the east and west sides of the canal and closing it would, as you say, make traffic on Sussex and the ByWard Market far worse.

Originally Posted by phil235

Your plan would be an improvement, but it's definitely a stopgap. The point of the reconstruction is to remove the underpass, get rid of what is essentially a highway off-ramp in the middle of the busiest part of the city, and to create a new public space. This is an important intersection for the city and the country - it is worth doing it right.

100%

I think that one of the big delays in all this is figuring out if the STO tram goes ahead, and if so, how do we plan on looping it around to cross the new Alexandra Bridge. No point in rebuilding the whole intersection just to have to do it again in 10-20 years.

I think I did see plans to make the bike lane on that side a sidewalks or MUP for now.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thank you. I never understood why people keep calling for the closure of Rideau Street to cars. It's one of the very few streets that connect the east and west sides of the canal and closing it would, as you say, make traffic on Sussex and the ByWard Market far worse.

There is no street that the Close The Street To Cars faction won't advocate for closing to cars.

I mean, I hate cars as much as the next guy, but there are only so many places you can Close To Cars in any city, let alone one with such a non-robust street layout as ours, and there is only so much you can Close to Cars without also Closing to Buses.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There is no street that the Close The Street To Cars faction won't advocate for closing to cars.

I mean, I hate cars as much as the next guy, but there are only so many places you can Close To Cars in any city, let alone one with such a non-robust street layout as ours, and there is only so much you can Close to Cars without also Closing to Buses.

Agreed. I very much want to see more streets closed in the Market. I'm happy to close Wellington to cars if the STO tram is built, and would even be open to closing it without the STO tram. There is no good alternative for cars if we close Rideau.

That said, FWIW, the "close Rideau" group seems to want to go back to the Rideau bus mall, but I don't see how that small stretch would really help buses gain much, if any reliability. That's not the choke point.

[urbform]

simply. horrible.

[Richard Eade]

Your tax dollars at work – buying lipstick.

[Kitchissippi]

I absolutely abhor painted concrete, especially when it is used to highlight details that are supposed to be subtle.

[DarthVader_1961]

Are they going to fix those stairs?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Are they going to fix those stairs?

They're still closed for winter; all good.

[OTownandDown]

I don't get it, a quick update could just cantilever a sidewalk similar to the cantilevered light standard in the near foreground (at right). It would be what, like $400k? There's already a bike lane upstairs, with it's own signal and light cycle. Just add the frikking sidewalk already and permanently close the underpass. Tourists are already using the cycle lane and signals to walk the dumb dead-end rideau bike lane anyways.

Originally Posted by urbform

simply. horrible.

[J.OT13]

They were going to make the cycle lane into a sidewalk as of earlier this summer, but apparently that quietly died.

This is all pretty horrible and pointless. Reminder that the money meant for the William Street pedestrianization is being used for this (amongst other minor projects), and as far as I know, the Province hasn't approved using the funds for anything else, so this is Sutcliffe blowing money he might not actually have again.

[urbanforest]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I don't get it, a quick update could just cantilever a sidewalk similar to the cantilevered light standard in the near foreground (at right). It would be what, like $400k? There's already a bike lane upstairs, with it's own signal and light cycle. Just add the frikking sidewalk already and permanently close the underpass. Tourists are already using the cycle lane and signals to walk the dumb dead-end rideau bike lane anyways.

I had the thought that it would be fun to get a few dump trucks and fill it in and then cut a walkway through the concrete barrier to have a continuous sidewalk + green space, but I like your idea too.

[phil235]

Not sure which bike lane was supposed to become a sidewalk, but I'd just make a pitch for the bike lane connection from Mackenzie to the canal. It is excellent now, and opens up really good connections to the Market and Gatineau.

As for Rideau, they really just need to finish the very short connection to the Wellington lanes and it will become quite useful as well. Lots of ways to provide more pedestrian space through there as well. But I actually think the underpass is salvageable in the short term with some lighting and a small amount of activation. Long term is still demolishing the underpass entirely and making more public space at street level.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not sure which bike lane was supposed to become a sidewalk, but I'd just make a pitch for the bike lane connection from Mackenzie to the canal. It is excellent now, and opens up really good connections to the Market and Gatineau.

As for Rideau, they really just need to finish the very short connection to the Wellington lanes and it will become quite useful as well. Lots of ways to provide more pedestrian space through there as well. But I actually think the underpass is salvageable in the short term with some lighting and a small amount of activation. Long term is still demolishing the underpass entirely and making more public space at street level.

The bike lane that runs along the railing on the right of the image.

[OTownandDown]

The whole thing is such a crazy cluster, and for me when I'm biking up elgin and then down rideau heading east, I'm STILL going faster than traffic because it's a downhill, so I still just bike in the main traffic lane, especially if its a series of green lights. Note, the 'bike lane' crosses several turning lanes, so if you want to head anywhere at speed without slamming on your bike breaks for being cut off, you must stay in the 'going straight thru' 2nd lane from the right. I'm in and out of the cluster in about 2 minutes charging ahead in traffic, rather than taking the bike lane, zig-zagging to cross the entire street twice, waiting at several light signals, and still getting to a dead-end. The whole thing is almost not useable unless you were someone going quite slow, or a child.

Coming westbound on rideau is a different story. IF you make it through the truck traffic alive at King Edward, you're getting naught but a series of sharrows in solid bus traffic up past the mall, and then going uphill is much slower, with cars trying to get past you until after the bridge reaching the protected bike lane. If you're heading to Elgin you have no choice but to ride downhill in traffic (again, if you're 'advanced' it's not an issue). If you're heading to sparks or mid-downtown, O'Connor's bike lane doesn't connect either.

In any event, in this image, the bike lane hugs the raised concrete rail on the right hand side of the image. And the pedestrian sidewalk should do the same. Everyone walks IN traffic right now to walk on the bike lane. I'm not sure how many of you have watched 'Fleabag' but a big part of that show is about how her friend got hit by a bike, then a car, then another bike. How long before that happens?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The bike lane that runs along the railing on the right of the image.

Yeah, that's not the one I was meaning. The one that crosses Rideau and heads south on the canal is pretty useful. That little nub of a lane is not.

[zzptichka]

Scary dangerous. Thousands of people walking on the shoulder without any any signs/lights every day. Deadly accident waiting to happen.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Scary dangerous. Thousands of people walking on the shoulder without any any signs/lights every day. Deadly accident waiting to happen.

Yes, this is what I mean. There's a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 signal for bikes to cross already, what are we protecting here by NOT including a pedestrian sidewalk, exactly?