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  #41  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2026, 11:53 PM
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Big difference between Montreal Island and the metro area outside the Island. French-speakers outnumber English-speakers on the island about 2-1, but around 5-1 in the metro area as a whole.
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2026, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Big difference between Montreal Island and the metro area outside the Island. French-speakers outnumber English-speakers on the island about 2-1, but around 5-1 in the metro area as a whole.
You cannot really reason in terms of "outnumbering", because "French speakers" and "English speakers" are not two mutually exclusive categories.

Also, the people living in the rest of the metro area are highly likely to be present on the island of Montréal during the day. That's the whole point of a metro area.
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  #43  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2026, 5:19 PM
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Should say as primary language, not ability to speak (though there is just a sizeable number - close to a tenth - that use both English and French equally).
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  #44  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2026, 7:00 PM
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Should say as primary language, not ability to speak (though there is just a sizeable number - close to a tenth - that use both English and French equally).
What is a "primary language"? The Canadian census doesn't have such a variable.

Some people speak EQUALLY French and English at home, so what's their primary language?

And what about those who speak at home 70% foreign language (say 70% Haitian Creole) and 30% French. In your logic, they are not counted as French speakers, yet these immigrants are integrating in the Francophone community, not in the Anglophone community.

The Canadian census as 1 variable that is "First official language spoken". In this case, the person who speaks 70% Haitian Creole at home and 30% French, would be counted as a French speaker for that variable, since French is the official language of Canada that he/she speaks.

But even that variable has people who speak EQUALLY French and English.
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  #45  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2026, 10:57 PM
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Neither. I excluded them for the ratios. Anyway, at least you're no longer complaining about the weather in a city you don't live in and would never live in.
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  #46  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2026, 10:59 PM
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Montreal Island to off-island seems to have the same "diversity drop-off" as Greater London vs. the home counties. Once you leave these limits, you quickly enter middle Quebec/middle England.
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  #47  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2026, 11:36 PM
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At the 2021 census, people in the Montréal metro area reported that the language they spoke at home either exclusively (i.e. no other language spoken), or the most, or equally with another language was:
- French: 69.2%
- English: 20.8%
- another language: 17.5%

(percentages add up to more than 100% because some people speak more than one language at home)

Also, at the 2021 census in the Montréal metro area, 33.8% of people reported that they could have a conversation in French only (i.e. they either know no English, or their English is so bad they cannot really have a conversation in it). Only 8.2% of the people reported that they could have a conversation in English only (which is already pretty high for a city that functions essentially in French). 1.6% reported that they could have a conversation in neither French nor English. So if you do the math, that means 90.2% of people in the Montréal metro area can have a conversation in French, and 9.8% cannot. 64.6% of people can have a conversation in English, and 35.4% cannot. So if you're a French tourist in Montréal, only 1 person in 10 will not be able to converse in French with you, whereas if you're an Anglo tourist in Montréal, a bit more than 1/3 of people will not be able to have a conversation with you in English.

PS: For the Québec City metro area, 99.4% will be able to have a conversation with you in French, whereas only 41.8% will be able to have a conversation with you in English.
To supplement this, here is the stat for 1st official language spoken. 1st official language spoken is a complex stat that does not result from 1 question in the census, but from 3 questions that are combined to infer the 1st official language spoken by the person.

In a nutshell, the difference between language spoken at home and 1st official language spoken is the fact that the allophones (immigrants who speak neither French nor English at home) are assigned to one of the two official languages depending on other variables than just language spoken at home. 1st official language spoken basically shows in which linguistic community the immigrant integrate, so it's useful for the defenders of the French language to see whether the language has a future (because the immigrants are integrating in the Francophone community), or whether the language has no future (because the immigrants are integrating in the Anglophone community).

For the Montréal metro area, at the 2021 census, the 1st official language spoken was:
- French: 78.0%
- English: 27.1%
- neither French nor English: 1.6%

Percentages add up to more than 100% because 6.7% of people have both French and English as their 1st official language spoken. In order to have both French and English as your 1st official language spoken, you need to be either:
- able to hold a conversation in both French and English
- have neither French nor English as your mother tongue
- and speak both French and English EQUALLY at home

or:
- able to hold a conversation in both French and English
- have neither French nor English as your mother tongue
- and speak neither French nor English at home

You can notice that the percentage of people with French as their 1st official language spoken (78.0%) is higher than the percentage of people who speak French at home (69.2%). That's because many allophone immigrants integrate in the Francophone community (for instance an Algerian immigrant speaks solely Algerian Arabic at home, but can have a conversation in French, and probably works in a Francophone business).

The percentage of people with English as their 1st official language spoken (27.1%) is also higher than the percentage of people who speak English at home (20.8%), which shows that some immigrants have historically integrated in the Anglophone community. But then it could also be a simple statistical artefact, because if we go back to our Algerian immigrant who speaks solely Algerian Arabic at home, if this guy can have a conversation in both French and English, then this guy will be counted in the 6.7% whose 1st official language spoken is French and English, and then in the 27.1% of English here, despite the fact that this immigrant and his family are most likely to integrate in the Francophone community and not in the Anglophone community, but the guy simply knows also English as many young professionals do.

If they had wanted to push the thing to its extreme conclusion, they would have asked the immigrants in the census: in which official language of Canada are you or do you plan to integrate, but for some reason this question was never asked.

So, the bottom line is: the people who are either native Francophones or immigrants who are integrating in the Francophone community are probably around 75-76% in the Montréal metro area, and those who are either native Anglophones or integrating in the Anglophone community are probably around 22-23%, with the last 2% being recently arrived people or their old relatives who speak neither English nor French. Here this sums up to 100%.

For the Québec City metro area, the 1st official languages spoken are:
- French: 98.0%
- English: 2.8%
- neither French nor English: 0.3%

For the Ottawa-Gatineau metro area, the 1st official languages spoken are:
- French: 32.5%
- English: 69.0%
- neither French nor English: 1.2%
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2026, 12:01 AM
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French is definitely the main language of Montreal. Back in say 1970, it wasn't uncommon for English-speaking Montrealers to only speak English. Until about half a century ago, English was the language of downtown, the language of business. Not anymore. The majority of Montreal anglos, including the children and grandchildren of the these unilingual anglos who are still in Montreal, do speak French now. Those who don't like the primacy of French tend to migrate to Ontario.
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  #49  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2026, 12:05 AM
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Whatever happened to the descendants of this community? These were English-speaking working class Irish. Today it's a trendy gentrifying/gentrified area.

https://www.onf.ca/film/point/
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  #50  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2026, 12:05 AM
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Montreal Island to off-island seems to have the same "diversity drop-off" as Greater London vs. the home counties. Once you leave these limits, you quickly enter middle Quebec/middle England.
Both Laval and Longueuil are closer to downtown Montréal than the Western Anglophone extremity of the Montréal Island, and they are served by the Métro de Montréal, whereas many parts of the Montréal Island aren't.



This cannot be compared with the home counties around London. The home counties are 20 to 25 km from the center of London, whereas Longueuil is only 5 km from downtown Montréal, and Laval is 12 km from downtown Montréal. It's more similar to NJ and Manhattan.
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  #51  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2026, 12:19 AM
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Isn't having someone else dredge up information from Wikipedia and ChatGPT a wonderful thing?
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  #52  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2026, 12:24 AM
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The National Film Board of Canada is headquartered in Montreal. Pretty cool looking building too:

https://designconnect.biz/ilot-balmoral-a-beacon-of-vibrancy/
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  #53  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2026, 2:48 AM
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A Malaysian immigrant of Indian origin speaks about her identification as a Montrealer (more than either Canadian or Quebecer) and embrace of French:

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7288636
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  #54  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2026, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
A Malaysian immigrant of Indian origin speaks about her identification as a Montrealer (more than either Canadian or Quebecer) and embrace of French:

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.7288636

This video and the others on the website are all a little too much. It just seems like the site is desperate to portray Montreal as an exceptionally cosmopolitan place as compensation for its relative economic and cultural decline. For whatever reason it has this need to be considered some sort of gem on the world stage in a way that Toronto does not and neither does any individual U.S. city.

This article places Quebec (not just Montreal) as poorer than pretty much every single U.S. state:
https://thehub.ca/2025/11/12/ontario-and-quebec-are-poorer-than-louisiana-and-42-other-states/

Last edited by jmecklenborg; Aug 3, 2026 at 4:01 AM.
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  #55  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2026, 4:34 AM
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You really seem to have an ax to grind and haven't gotten over not being able to get the last word when the Great Lakes thread took an unfortunate turn.
Maybe you should take a break from Canada-related topics, they obviously trigger you greatly. I can understand feeling miffed for maybe a day at most but this seems unhealthy.

What I found interesting about the interview was how she ended up in Montreal in spite of being English-speaking, and not opting for English language education for her children that was available. Also shows Montreal's position rather different from both Canada outside Quebec and very homogeneous, nearly-all French rest of Quebec. The linguistic, ethnic and religious diversity of Malaysia is quite interesting too.
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  #56  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2026, 12:36 PM
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It's incredible what he gets so mad about. I know he's making strawmen to dash against the wall like pillows by a misunderstood teenager, but... his starting point is things like "Montreal is unique" and "missing middle housing is good". Why build these up to the point he needs to fight them?
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  #57  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2026, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
This article places Quebec (not just Montreal) as poorer than pretty much every single U.S. state:
https://thehub.ca/2025/11/12/ontario-and-quebec-are-poorer-than-louisiana-and-42-other-states/
And the UK poorer than Mississippi. These stats are meaningless if not taking into account a- purchasing power, and b- inequalities (Gini coefficient), since GDP per capita is an average, not a median.
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  #58  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2026, 1:46 PM
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What I found interesting about the interview was how she ended up in Montreal in spite of being English-speaking, and not opting for English language education for her children that was available.
To be fair, she couldn't send her kids to an Anglophone school, as per Québec's law. Immigrants must send their kids to Francophone schools. In the video, I see she claims that because she did grade 12 in English in Edmonton, she could send her kids to Anglophone schools in Québec, but she seems wrong here, as she would have had to do primary school in English in Canada (not secondary school) to be eligible to send her kids to an Anglophone school in Québec (which is a bit of a strange rule to be honest...).
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  #59  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2026, 1:14 AM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
It's incredible what he gets so mad about. I know he's making strawmen to dash against the wall like pillows by a misunderstood teenager, but... his starting point is things like "Montreal is unique" and "missing middle housing is good". Why build these up to the point he needs to fight them?
Well those Quebecers/Canadians just don't know bad they have it, do they?

Human Development Index:

Quebec 0.945
Ontario 0.945
Louisiana 0.892
Alabama 0.887

Life expectancy:

Ontario 82.85
Quebec 82.65
Louisiana 75.61
Alabama 75.44

I'll just say that GDP per capita is not meant to measure human welfare or living standards, a point made by Simon Kuznets in 1934.

Anyway...end of tangent.
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  #60  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2026, 1:21 AM
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Knowledge of Official Languages: French only

Saguenay CMA 76%
Trois-Rivieres CMA 67.1%
Quebec CMA 57.9%
Sherbrooke CMA 51.9%
Montreal CMA 33.8%
Ottawa-Gatineau CMA (Quebec part) 25.9%
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