High Speed Rail in Canada - Page 99

J81 · #**1961** Posted **Jul 27, 2026, 11:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

While I’d love to see daily passenger rail service between Saint John, Moncton, and Halifax, couldn’t we just invest in much better bus services?

How often do you travel on the bus?

EnvisionSaintJohn · #**1962** Posted **Jul 27, 2026, 12:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81

How often do you travel on the bus?

Almost never because the service is not convenient or affordably priced versus driving… other than local transit, which is affordably priced, but not that convenient.

I’d take a bus to the airport every time i fly out of YSJ if that was an option, or take a bus to Halifax International if that was a convenient option, which it isn’t… but it should be.

Taeolas · #**1963** Posted **Jul 27, 2026, 2:19 PM**

Maritime Bus Service is anemic at best. To suggest it as an option is laughable. It really needs investment as much a we need investment in Transit in general.

Looking at the service schedule, I believe it basically has ONE route a day between Cities (Freddy to Moncton is one a day). Moncton to Halifax is twice a day at least but that is a bit of an outlier.

At the very least, I'd expect minimum twice daily service between NB's 3 cities, Charlottetown and Halifax, with Moncton as the hub. Idealy those 5 cities should maybe have 3 or even 4 time daily service to give the most options.

Edmundston, Bathurst, Sydney probably should have twie daily to their nearest hub spot (Freddy, Moncton and Truro respectively), while Summerside should have 2-3 buses a day to Charlottetown.

And of course, we need connections to Quebec and Maine. A route/connection for Edmundston to Riviere de Loup and probably St Stephen or Woodstock down to Bangor would make sense.

Instead, we have the current anemic system that barely functions, and isn't useful enough to really build any PAX numbers.

Like most Public Transit in Canada, it's frustrating. We do the bare minimum, and then assume that is enough, even though people don't, won't or can't use that minimum because it is just checking a box instead of actually looking to provide a service people will use. and then we wonder why it isn't being used.

Nouvellecosse · #**1964** Posted **Jul 27, 2026, 2:30 PM**

Maritime Bus was sort of decent-ish before covid, but then they slashed a lot of their service and never fully restored it. Probably because when you slash service, there are people who may be using it less for a reason like covid but still need it to be there in a usable state for the trips they still need to make. And when it isn't, they're forced to make other arrangements. Often long term arrangements like moving, changing jobs, or spending money on a vehicle which means that past riders can't just be recovered. New ones must be attracted which takes a long time.

Especially when you're not willing to schedule decent service until after the demand is already there rather than using it to generate demand. Classic chicken and egg. In part since it's a private, for-profit company, and while private companies may have the concept of a loss leader, it's only when they can afford the investment. Whereas a public service spend subsidies to generate positive externalities. I believe they do get some subsidy, or at least did. But I don't think it's very much iirc.

whatnext · #**1965** Posted **Jul 29, 2026, 8:40 PM**

No comments on Ontario's hissy fit over Toronto island Airport and threatening to pull out of Alto as a result? Talk about stupid.

Ontario rethinking support for high-speed rail after feds reject Billy Bishop expansion: source
11 MPPs release statement raising questions about Alto rail project
Salma Ibrahim, Kate McKenna · CBC News · Posted: Jul 28, 2026
Published: July 28, 2026 at 2:39PM EDT

The Doug Ford government is now rethinking its support for a high-speed rail project after the federal government ruled out expanding Billy Bishop Airport, a source has told CTV News.

The multi-billion-dollar Alto project would connect Quebec City to Toronto and promises to cut travel times between those cities in half.

The Toronto Star first reported the news.

Earlier this year, Ford and Prime Minister Carney signed the “Canada-Ontario Partnership to Build” agreement, which includes both governments committing to support the planning and advancement of Alto.....

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/o...il-after-billy-bishop-expansion-blocked/

Nouvellecosse · #**1966** Posted **Jul 29, 2026, 9:03 PM**

Ford is stupid, and that shockingly results in him saying and doing stupid things. More news at 11!

TorontoDrew · #**1967** Posted **Jul 29, 2026, 9:04 PM**

Doug Ford and his government seem pretty out of touch with what a lot of people actually want. I can honestly say I'm glad I didn't vote for them.

That said, I don't think they'll end up killing the high speed rail project. They know that pulling the plug on something this important would be a political disaster. I think they realize it could cost them a lot of support in the next election, so I'd be surprised if they actually went through with it.

Also, great news that the federal government blocked the expansion of Toronto Island Airport.

It does make you wonder who at Queen's Park is disappointed by that decision. Given some of the Ontario government's track record, I'm sure there are a few people who aren't happy their plans didn't work out. Now I'm curious whether some of the same voices pushing to axe high speed also had any connections to the Billy Bishop expansion?

kwoldtimer · #**1968** Posted **Jul 29, 2026, 9:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Doug Ford and his government seem pretty out of touch with what a lot of people actually want. I can honestly say I'm glad I didn't vote for them.

That said, I don't think they'll end up killing the high speed rail project. They know that pulling the plug on something this important would be a political disaster. I think they realize it could cost them a lot of support in the next election, so I'd be surprised if they actually went through with it.

Also, great news that the federal government blocked the expansion of Toronto Island Airport.

It does make you wonder who at Queen's Park is disappointed by that decision. Given some of the Ontario government's track record, I'm sure there are a few people who aren't happy their plans didn't work out. Now I'm curious whether some of the same voices pushing to axe high speed also had any connections to the Billy Bishop expansion?

Are they even able to "kill" a federal project? I can see that they could complicate the process, but at the end of the day, it's not their jurisdiction.

Metro-One · #**1969** Posted **Jul 29, 2026, 10:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Are they even able to "kill" a federal project? I can see that they could complicate the process, but at the end of the day, it's not their jurisdiction.

My thoughts exactly, just like the trans mountain pipeline in BC.

theman23 · #**1970** Posted **Jul 29, 2026, 11:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Ford is stupid, and that shockingly results in him saying and doing stupid things. More news at 11!

Apparently there was an informal — for tat agreement that the PCs felt they had where they would expend political capital to support Alto in exchange for the LPC supporting the Billy Bishop expansion, but the LPC seemingly changed their mind (to defend their Beaches East York seat in the upcoming by election) which has left the PCs blindsided.

Nouvellecosse · #**1971** Posted **Jul 30, 2026, 12:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23

Apparently there was an informal — for tat agreement that the PCs felt they had where they would expend political capital to support Alto in exchange for the LPC supporting the Billy Bishop expansion, but the LPC seemingly changed their mind (to defend their Beaches East York seat in the upcoming by election) which has left the PCs blindsided.

If that's true it's strange that the fed didn't give any warning to allow Ford to save face. Unless the PCs were just imagining the whole thing. Also strange that the PCs felt that supporting a huge federal job creating investment in the province would result in a net loss of political capital.

theman23 · #**1972** Posted **Jul 30, 2026, 1:10 AM**

The CBC quoted an anonymous LPC source (as opposed to PC), so there’s probably some truth to it.

ZTrade · #**1973** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 4:30 PM**

Probably a hot take on this website, but I don't believe the proposed high-speed rail, in its current scope, provides a net economic benefit. Upgrading the existing VIA Rail system would likely offer a much better cost-benefit ratio.

If you want to get somewhere quickly, fly.
If you want to get there in a reasonable amount of time, drive.
If you don't have a car and flying is too expensive, take the train.

ericmacm · #**1974** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZTrade

Probably a hot take on this website, but I don't believe the proposed high-speed rail, in its current scope, provides a net economic benefit. Upgrading the existing VIA Rail system would likely offer a much better cost-benefit ratio.

If you want to get somewhere quickly, fly.
If you want to get there in a reasonable amount of time, drive.
If you don't have a car and flying is too expensive, take the train.

The way you have ordered priorities here is exactly what HSR is supposed to change, bring rail to the top of the list as the most competitive option.

As air and road traffic between the cities on the Corridor continue to grow, moving a lot of that demand to electrified HSR would theoretically introduce more certainty in time/cost of travel, insulate travel costs from swings due to fuel pricing, and open up more space at airports for other routes (such as international routes and long-distance domestic). A high-speed train between Toronto-Montreal would move a lot more people at once than a flight, and be significantly more affordable too.

Do keep in mind that the project did start out as VIA HFR and evolved into HSR over time, as the investments required to eliminate its disadvantages and make VIA more competitive (faster trains, dedicated ROW, electrification) started to resemble the ingredients needed for HSR anyway.

J.OT13 · #**1975** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 6:06 PM**

This is just dumb. Ontario PCs who want to build highways, architects of the Greenbelt scandal, constantly pushing to expand urban boundaries, suddenly care about property rights and farms. Go — a lemon.

I'm tired of the political system becoming a giant quid pro quo. You win some, you lose some. Get over it.

niwell · #**1976** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 6:09 PM**

I haven't delved into this but I wouldn't be shocked if the cost of providing true upgrades to VIA in Quebec/Ontario increase exponentially the more autonomy VIA would have over the Corridor. Basing on the idea that they need true track ownership to avoid the delays that currently plague the system and the Corridor is quite constrained in many parts - even in rural areas goes through more productive farmland. The benefit likely isn't there to provide even a portion the level of service Alto could bring.

niwell · #**1977** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

This is just dumb. Ontario PCs who want to build highways, architects of the Greenbelt scandal, constantly pushing to expand urban boundaries, suddenly care about property rights and farms. Go — a lemon.

I'm tired of the political system becoming a giant quid pro quo. You win some, you lose some. Get over it.

If I were a betting man I'd say Doug made some big promises to certain parties regarding Billy Bishop that have at least temporarily evaporated (and probably permanently to the extent he desired). I have it on pretty good authority he's completely LIVID right now. Carney probably saw the writing on the wall with respect to his popularity. His Alto threats are pretty weak and amount to getting MPPs from solidly PC ridings to express some wishy-washy concern .

I'm sure BB airport expansion will come back in some form but not the half-baked version we saw.

J.OT13 · #**1978** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 6:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

If I were a betting man I'd say Doug made some big promises to certain parties regarding Billy Bishop that have at least temporarily evaporated (and probably permanently to the extent he desired). I have it on pretty good authority he's completely LIVID right now. Carney probably saw the writing on the wall with respect to his popularity. His Alto threats are pretty weak and amount to getting MPPs from solidly PC ridings to express some wishy-washy concern .

I'm sure BB airport expansion will come back in some form but not the half-baked version we saw.

It's been pretty clear that Ford has only ever cared about enriching his buddies, throwing in a few shiny goodies to the general population to say on their good side in the form of tax and fee cuts.

Lesson here is don't write a cheque you can't cash.

Nouvellecosse · #**1979** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 7:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZTrade

Probably a hot take on this website, but I don't believe the proposed high-speed rail, in its current scope, provides a net economic benefit. Upgrading the existing VIA Rail system would likely offer a much better cost-benefit ratio.

If you want to get somewhere quickly, fly.
If you want to get there in a reasonable amount of time, drive.
If you don't have a car and flying is too expensive, take the train.

Not such a hot take when the government's own analysis showed the same thing iirc. But infrastructure isn't just about economic benefit but also things like quality of life which are very real but harder to quantify economically.

Franco401 · #**1980** Posted **Jul 31, 2026, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZTrade

If you want to get somewhere quickly, fly.
If you want to get there in a reasonable amount of time, drive.
If you don't have a car and flying is too expensive, take the train.

This would all be great if infrastructure and transportation was just individuals making rational choices in the marketplace of ideas, but falls apart immediately when you, as a state and society, have to move thousands of people every day between the two biggest cities in a rich, developed country.

I guess we'll just keep putting more cars on the busiest highway in the world, more planes at two airports already operating at or near capacity, or more trains on the slow existing corridor that can't be upgraded to the level needed because it was privatized by shortsighted governments decades ago.

Nobody who says stuff like ever takes the train. They usually live in places that don't have traffic congestion, where you can just keep driving, polluting, building big houses at the edge of town.

We live in one of the worst climate offending countries per capita in the world. It's funny how this is something that isn't mentioned in mainstream Canadian politics anymore, because the Libs and NDP are afraid of how the oil lobby massacred Trudeau for the Carbon Tax, the most necessary policy ever implemented. Policy in this country is controlled by 60 year olds with giant trucks, driving 30km to work everyday because nobody has had the balls to tell them their lifestyle needs to change. It makes me sick.

HSR is the most important infrastructure project in Canadian history. It should've been built 40 years ago for a fraction of the cost, but now we're building it for $90B or more because we live in a country built by our grandfathers. They twiddled their thumbs, let VIA rot and widened the highways when they should've been building the sustainable infrastructure needed for a 21st-Century society, and now we're left with the bill.

Keep your cost-benefit analysis to yourself.