City of Vancouver ODP

[seamusmcduff]

Originally Posted by s211

Leave it to the CBC to focus on the one person who voted for social engineering orthodoxy.

Huh? Are you trying to say that allowing property owners the choice to build more housing if they wish, in a city that's one of the most expensive in the world because of a lack of supply, is now "social engineering"? What does that even mean?

Isn't arbitrarily restricting most of the city to low density housing also "social engineering" then?

[GenWhy?]

They would have interviewed more than 1 person who voted "yes" if more than 1 person voted "yes".

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

Huh? Are you trying to say that allowing property owners the choice to build more housing if they wish, in a city that's one of the most expensive in the world because of a lack of supply, is now "social engineering"? What does that even mean?

Isn't arbitrarily restricting most of the city to low density housing also "social engineering" then?

More freedom to build what you want on your property: "Social engineering! Communism! 15 Minute City gulags!".

Tight restrictions on what you are allowed to do with your own property, and forced single-use areas because you have a grumpy, geriatric neighbour: "Freedom! Capitalism!"

Populism is dumb. People need to unhook from that drug because it is rotting their brains into soup.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

- Douglas Adams

Seems to apply to city planning too. Same people come crawling out to protest SkyTrains.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

Huh? Are you trying to say that allowing property owners the choice to build more housing if they wish, in a city that's one of the most expensive in the world because of a lack of supply, is now "social engineering"? What does that even mean?

Isn't arbitrarily restricting most of the city to low density housing also "social engineering" then?

We're not one of the most expensive in the world due to lack of supply.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

We're not one of the most expensive in the world due to lack of supply.

Once again you argue against the economic law of supply and demand.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

We're not one of the most expensive in the world due to lack of supply.

Lack of supply that people want. Start building 1k+ sq ft units for less than $3k/month, and watch them all fly off the shelves listings.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Lack of supply that people want. Start building 1k+ sq ft units for less than $3k/month, and watch them all fly off the shelves listings.

If we could actually build 4-bedroom condos for families, that'd be cool too. We build zero of anything bigger than a 3-bed outside of the odd penthouse or two (and even 3 beds are like ~10-20% of what is constructed at best).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Once again you argue against the economic law of supply and demand.

You were saying?


Unsold condos weigh on Vancouver housing starts, says think tank
Economists say the Canada-B.C. condo conversion alone won't restore Vancouver's housing market
Jami Makan
a day ago

A large inventory of unsold condos in Vancouver is creating a difficult environment for new construction and causing housing starts to plunge, according to a Canadian think tank.

There were 2,008 housing starts in Vancouver in June, a 34.8-per-cent drop year-over-year, according to a July 27 analysis by Signal49 Research, formerly The Conference Board of Canada.

Weakness was concentrated in the apartment category, which saw a 40.8-per-cent decline year-over-year to 1,561 units in June. Single-family homes saw a 12.1-per-cent decline to 167 units, according to data sourced from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp...

...“Without some clearing of the backlogs, there can’t be new construction, at least that’s what the developers are saying," he said. "They just can’t carry all these unsold condominiums or unsold apartments on their books and hope to achieve strong starts in the future.”

Another reason for poor housing starts is a falling population and shrinking labour force, he said. Vancouver has historically relied on immigration and foreign demand to fuel its market, but population growth has slowed more dramatically here than elsewhere in the country...

...Jock Finlayson, chief economist with B.C.'s Independent Contractors and Businesses Association, agreed the Vancouver housing market is weak compared to normal long-term conditions and other Canadian metros due to its declining population and unabsorbed inventory.

“Three or four thousand newly built or recently built empty condos obviously is a cloud hanging over the market,” he said...(bold mine)

https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/uns...-housing-starts-says-think-tank-12603567

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You were saying?

See previous answer.

[GenWhy?]

Wonder why the vacancy rate isn't that high

[chowhou]

Use your brain for once. There are a ton of unsold condos, and we've seen a 5+ year reversal in home prices. Why do you think that is? Do you think the prices would have fallen as much if developers were not allowed to build what they did?

We're mostly lucky that developers miscalculated demand for housing near and before COVID.

It doesn't have to be this way, we would have built even more supply if regulatory costs and government supply management were not constraining supply.

[seamusmcduff]

People were joking about how if they had kept the villages plan had been kept to the east side, it would have passed with little fanfare. I just remembered that that's pretty close to the truth. Around the east van skytrains they prezoned a huge area to R3 under the Rupert and Renfrew station plan, with basically no coverage or push back that I saw. Up to 6 stories over like 200 blocks and seemingly no concern for our resident "urban planning experts" that the Sun loves to give articles to.

And a lot of these blocks are well outside the provincial requirements, so you can't even argue that the province basically forced them to.

Crazy how ABCs tune changed, just back in January it was all about giving property owners the choice about what to do with their properties. I guess west side property owners just don't deserve the same rights

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/rupert-r...ncouver-single-family-apartment-rezoning

[Migrant_Coconut]

Hasn't it always been that way? Zero means zero, bumping Kerrisdale's community centre to the top of the rebuilding list...

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Wonder why the vacancy rate isn't that high

Huh so I read the Douglas Todd article on Inclusionary Zoning for a lark and it mentioned a 3.7% purpose-built rental vacancy which apparently is the highest it's been since 1988 which is so pathetic.

Call me when it's 6% for 5+ years running.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Huh so I read the Douglas Todd article on Inclusionary Zoning for a lark and it mentioned a 3.7% purpose-built rental vacancy which apparently is the highest it's been since 1988 which is so pathetic.

Call me when it's 6% for 5+ years running.

As a developer, who do you think would be building with that kind of vacancy rate?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Lack of supply that people want. Start building 1k+ sq ft units for less than $3k/month, and watch them all fly off the shelves listings.

Okay, that would require a market crash. Bring it.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

"People hate fake engagement, and the way engagement has rolled out has been detrimental to democracy. It erodes public trust and confidence and leads people to give up on participating in their City.

People need to feel respected and listened to."

What the HELL does this mean?!

It means that public consultation is going to get dragged out even longer than it currently is so absolutely nothing will get done for fear of one person out of the entire city going "I WASN'T CONSULTED ON THIS"

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As a developer, who do you think would be building with that kind of vacancy rate?

Who cares? We should be allowing the free market to function by removing barriers, whether they are zoning or excess development fees.

You constantly argue two sides of the same argument but somehow you are wrong on both of them.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As a developer, who do you think would be building with that kind of vacancy rate?

Thankfully I'll be either retired or dead by then at the rate we're restricting housing here