The Bay Parkade Redevelopment | 315, 271, 239m | 80, 69, 68fl | Proposed

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by urbanight93

I would prefer the free market dictating whether a building goes ahead than the government getting in the way of its potential implementation.

Kind of my point: if Holborn doesn't want to build anything, maybe the lot should be sold to somebody who does; "lead, follow or get out of the way" and all that.

Originally Posted by madog222

Well sure, of course the Expropriation Act still exists, but why would the City or Province want to buy the site?

See above.

[Spr0ckets]

Holborn and their dependability/reputation aside, anyone who thinks that someone is going to put a shovel in the ground to erect towers with some 70-80 storeys of strata along with a 300+m of Hotel in this current market is smoking some really stiff stuff.

And they should really share.

Even if we take the optimistic (...some would argue naive...) position that they could start construction in about 3-4 years once they've gotten through all the permit processes, and that by then we'll already have a recovery in the market in sight and under way, (.... a lot of developers think it could be as high as 6 years), you're still banking on a gamble that it will recover enough in the 10-12 years after that to complete the entire buildout and get your money back - or, to make most of it back.

Colour me skeptical, but I just don't see it happening.
Not with this developer, and not with any other developer.

My money is on them selling the site and project in some 5-6 years time after they've rezoned it and got the DP, and get a huge markup on their initial investment.
And then the eventual buyer will then likely apply to lose a whole bunch of floors and build it shorter than what we're seeing -

..... with a bunch of other changes to make it more digestible to financing partners.

[GenWhy?]

Securing this rezoning was a risk and not 100%. Even if it wasn't Holborn, I don't think a developer would be racing to do anything after Council's vote.

A developer would likely take this approval and start having some more conversations while sloooowly working on the Rezoning enactment. Could be 1-2 years before it's enacted.

So now it's mid or late 2028. Maybe they have a hotelier lined up by then, start working on Development Permit drawings and that could easily be another few years.

They could easily not try to apply for an excavation permit in 6-8 years, regardless of who the developer was. I'd be surprised (if Holborn or anyone else) if anything happened (like a hotel named or a new phase entered) by 2030.

I also can't be bother to recall if it's strata, rental, or the hotel in phase one (not the social housing) so if it's strata in the 1st phase... if you got a crystal ball

[p78hub]

900+ rooms is a lot for one hotel brand in the Vancouver market, even if we are starved for rooms. I wonder which major hotel brand has been itching to expand in Vancouver and has only been stopped by the lack of property.

[Glow Fun City]

Originally Posted by madog222

Well sure, of course the Expropriation Act still exists, but why would the City or Province want to buy the site?

We could build a few concert halls and theatres there…

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Glow Fun City

We could build a few concert halls and theatres there…

The podium plans show 3 massive ballrooms stacked above each other.

[bb1510]

I heard that they will be running their own flag for the hotel here

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by bb1510

I heard that they will be running their own flag for the hotel here

I think Paradox is the Holborn associated hotel banner, so it's not as though they don't have a presence downtown already.

[BaddieB]

Most nay-sayers for this project say something along the lines of 'well I won't ever use this hotel, therefore it should not be built!' as if the world revolves around them.

[s211]

Remind me, did Holburn build the Tr*mp Tower? I thought that was the case. If so, the development pro forma for that project was publicly available information because that company was publicly traded somewhere in the Far East. If it was Holburn that did Tr*mp, then perhaps in a similar fashion the pro forma for this project will eventually be public and then people can dig into the numbers to draw their own conclusions.

[kikin]

more hotels means more tourists means more economic activity which benefits the city as a whole

[vanman]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Holborn and their dependability/reputation aside, anyone who thinks that someone is going to put a shovel in the ground to erect towers with some 70-80 storeys of strata along with a 300+m of Hotel in this current market is smoking some really stiff stuff.

And they should really share.

Even if we take the optimistic (...some would argue naive...) position that they could start construction in about 3-4 years once they've gotten through all the permit processes, and that by then we'll already have a recovery in the market in sight and under way, (.... a lot of developers think it could be as high as 6 years), you're still banking on a gamble that it will recover enough in the 10-12 years after that to complete the entire buildout and get your money back - or, to make most of it back.

Colour me skeptical, but I just don't see it happening.
Not with this developer, and not with any other developer.

My money is on them selling the site and project in some 5-6 years time after they've rezoned it and got the DP, and get a huge markup on their initial investment.
And then the eventual buyer will then likely apply to lose a whole bunch of floors and build it shorter than what we're seeing -

..... with a bunch of other changes to make it more digestible to financing partners.

FYI only the hotel is planned to start construction by 2030, that is not an unrealistic timeline. The condos won't be built anytime soon.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes we should strive for the working conditions of India and China.

Quoting and citing the extremes seem to be what you are only good at.

[Vin]

I'm glad this project is given the greenlight. Let's set a good precedence, and drown out the voices of the loud minority and extremists.

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Most nay-sayers for this project say something along the lines of 'well I won't ever use this hotel, therefore it should not be built!' as if the world revolves around them.

Trust me, they and their friends would be there to make use of the facilities, but will continue to oppose anything proposed. Who would resist a public viewing deck overlooking downtown and having the best views of the mountains and ocean?

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Holborn and their dependability/reputation aside, anyone who thinks that someone is going to put a shovel in the ground to erect towers with some 70-80 storeys of strata along with a 300+m of Hotel in this current market is smoking some really stiff stuff.

And they should really share.

Even if we take the optimistic (...some would argue naive...) position that they could start construction in about 3-4 years once they've gotten through all the permit processes, and that by then we'll already have a recovery in the market in sight and under way, (.... a lot of developers think it could be as high as 6 years), you're still banking on a gamble that it will recover enough in the 10-12 years after that to complete the entire buildout and get your money back - or, to make most of it back.

Colour me skeptical, but I just don't see it happening.
Not with this developer, and not with any other developer.

My money is on them selling the site and project in some 5-6 years time after they've rezoned it and got the DP, and get a huge markup on their initial investment.
And then the eventual buyer will then likely apply to lose a whole bunch of floors and build it shorter than what we're seeing -

..... with a bunch of other changes to make it more digestible to financing partners.

You're going to be so wrong.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by vanman

FYI only the hotel is planned to start construction by 2030, that is not an unrealistic timeline. The condos won't be built anytime soon.

Eh, it's Holborn; even the hotel getting built seems optimistic.

Originally Posted by Vin

Quoting and citing the extremes seem to be what you are only good at.

The irony meter just exploded.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Vin

Quoting and citing the extremes seem to be what you are only good at.

Oh, the irony....

Originally Posted by Vin

.......


You're going to be so wrong.

That's the beauty of OPINIONS, isn't it?

Yours has a roughly equal chance of being wrong.

The difference of course, is that I'm basing mine on what we're currently seeing with our own eyes in the market, and what we know of this particular developer and their history,.

....and then extrapolating from that.

[Bokimon]

With the ridiculous amount of hotel rooms this project is proposing using uneven scalloped columnless floorplates I am kind of puzzled to the metrics of this supertall hotel tower where it is going to be 315m of what Residence Inn/Garden Inn and a Ritz/Waldorf at the upper portion holding 600+ rooms? Somebody must of been fudging up the performa to amp up the big wigs as I don't know any strictly supertall hotel builds in existence anywhere around the world.... Except the hotel of doom in North Korea.
Would of been better to assign the lower half a flagship hotel and the upper half lux residences with shared amenities, high tier clientele will probably be waiting eons for elevator rides from the top floors to get down.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Vin

Quoting and citing the extremes seem to be what you are only good at.

Why is it you always seem to go off when Holborn is criticized? Do you work for them? If so, how are those Little Mountain sales racking up?

[Repthe250]

Originally Posted by p78hub

900+ rooms is a lot for one hotel brand in the Vancouver market, even if we are starved for rooms. I wonder which major hotel brand has been itching to expand in Vancouver and has only been stopped by the lack of property.

Maybe W? If they’re opening a massive new hotel in Calgary, maybe they have eyes on Vancouver as well.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Repthe250

Maybe W? If they’re opening a massive new hotel in Calgary, maybe they have eyes on Vancouver as well.

The Calgary project is more residential than hotel, and the W isn't that big. "The 69-story W Calgary tower is set to feature 157 guest rooms, including 27 suites, and 239 branded residences". The second tower is proposed as a J W Marriott, and we already have one of those at the Parq. "The 62-story JW Marriott Calgary is set to offer 248 guestrooms and 120 branded residences".