Long Term Effects for World Cup Host Cities

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Originally Posted by Gresto

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm all for soccer being played indoors if it spares players unfavourable conditions like torrential rain, sweltering heat, gale-force winds, or some other natural phenomenon. It's already one of the most physically demanding sports without factoring in the caprices of Mother Nature. Trying to play soccer in a heavy downpour on a muddy field or in high winds is a fool's errand. And playing in the heat can lead to cardiac arrest.

I agree... there's a reason soccer players' careers peak so early in life and why the sport is, under normal circumstances, only played once a week. This is the most physically taxing of the major pro sports.

The problem with U.S. hosting duties is we're using our NFL stadiums which are built for autumn and winter weather. So there's no incentive yet to build more indoor stadiums. Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta only have them because they're the places where its still hot as hell at the beginning of the NFL season. But that's made those 3 perfect for hosting so many WC games in the middle of summer, and the great thing about this tournament is that it's shown how far we've come in our ability to grow a really great indoor pitch. These fields have been pristine because they're in perfectly controlled environments, while the reviews of MetLife's pitch have not been great because it's struggled being exposed to the heat. With the world only getting hotter, I feel like indoor pitches are going to become the standard now that we've seen how well it can be done.

[pj3000]

Yeah... all sports should be played indoors from now on. We should really be pushing for more massive comfort-cooled and heated stadia.

We humans shouldn't have to deal with "unfavourable conditions" at all

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by IcedCowboyCoffee

This is the most physically taxing of the major pro sports.

You clearly haven't played football, which has an average career length of 3 years. Aside from the QBs and kickers, there is often almost nobody over 30 out on the field.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Gresto

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm all for soccer being played indoors if it spares players unfavourable conditions like torrential rain, sweltering heat, gale-force winds, or some other natural phenomenon. It's already one of the most physically demanding sports without factoring in the caprices of Mother Nature. Trying to play soccer in a heavy downpour on a muddy field or in high winds is a fool's errand. And playing in the heat can lead to cardiac arrest.

And THAT is why the big WC games should be played outdoors in Seattle. Our summers have phenomenal problem-free weather. You can be outside and actually enjoy it.

Also easy transit and walkability. And the weather is important for the fans in the days before and after, not just on game days.

[sopas ej]

No weather issues for the World Cup at SoFi. SoFi is an open-air stadium but of course has the huge canopy over it.

Per Google AI:

"Weather at SoFi Stadium for World Cup matches was mostly sunny and mild, with kickoff temperatures in the lower 70s°F (21°C–23°C) that cooled into the mid-60s°F (18°C) by the end of play. Because SoFi has a massive translucent roof, fans and players enjoyed comfortable, controlled airflow completely shielded from direct sunlight."

[mhays]

Nothing is worse than being in the sun while not also being in the breeze. At least it's partially open-air.

[urbanactivist]

As a Houstonian and someone that didn’t actually attend the matches, I would say my impression of the World Cup was a mixed bag, but probably net positive.

Noted improvements for the populace certainly included the expanded PR which reached its peak with the Sweden vs. Netherlands fan marches. That was a truly fun moment for the city. We also made a valiant effort to impress World Cup travelers via expanded transit service, which we are now fighting to try and keep after they proved successful. But this is Houston, so not getting my hopes up on that.

Negatives were definitely the weather, which challenged not only some of the matches (what does it matter that the match is indoors if you have to swim there and back?) and torrential rains nearly decimated Fan Fest one more than one occasion. That hurts b/c Fan Fest in itself was already a mess due to very angry East End businesses getting strangled from police blockades and poor city planning. But even amongst those sour notes, I think our World Cup experience was mostly a success, and we learned a lot more to plan for future big events (IF that knowledge is utilized).

[iheartthed]

We're currently covered in wildfire smoke here in the NY area where the World Cup final is scheduled to be played this Sunday. Since the stadium is open air I imagine they're creating contingency plans in case this hasn't cleared up by then.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah... all sports should be played indoors from now on. We should really be pushing for more massive comfort-cooled and heated stadia.

We humans shouldn't have to deal with "unfavourable conditions" at all

I like to see teams play at the top of their technical ability, and forcing players to play this game in extreme heat just makes the quality of play worse for no reason. And watching a game being played on a water-logged pitch where the ball stops on a dime just isn't fun, it's not even the same sport.
I'm an old head Dallas soccer fan who has been to his fair share of cotton bowl and pizza hut park matches. I can't say the heat did anything for the experience other than give me some street cred to wave about later in life lol. My complaints are moot though, all my teams here still play outdoors anyways so my world aint changing anytime soon. My teams and I will continue roasting for years to come.

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

You clearly haven't played football, which has an average career length of 3 years. Aside from the QBs and kickers, there is often almost nobody over 30 out on the field.

Oh you mean the sport where the two halves of each team take turns resting on the sidelines every 5 minutes? /s

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by IcedCowboyCoffee

I like to see teams play at the top of their technical ability, and forcing players to play this game in extreme heat just makes the quality of play worse for no reason. And watching a game being played on a water-logged pitch where the ball stops on a dime just isn't fun, it's not even the same sport.
I'm an old head Dallas soccer fan who has been to his fair share of cotton bowl and pizza hut park matches. I can't say the heat did anything for the experience other than give me some street cred to wave about later in life lol. My complaints are moot though, all my teams here still play outdoors anyways so my world aint changing anytime soon. My teams and I will continue roasting for years to come.

I like to see teams play at the top of their technical ability too... and I also like to watch games in which the elements can influence the limits of technical abilities, the grit and determination of one team vs. the other, and even potentially the outcome of the game -- because that's sports. I'm not necessarily advocating for games to be played in extreme heat or torrential downpours, but that's the real world... and yes, it absolutely is the same sport if the elements affect how the game can be played. I just think that the weather is part of outdoor sports.

And as a frequent attendee of soccer matches in Brazil over the past (15 years... jeez I'm getting old), I can attest that neither the heat nor rain, has ever seemed to limit the technical abilities of teams there.

Originally Posted by IcedCowboyCoffee

Oh you mean the sport where the two halves of each team take turns resting on the sidelines every 5 minutes? /s

Both sports are physically demanding, and there is no doubt in my mind that pro soccer players are likely the best conditioned athletes for endurance and stamina and strength maintenance over the length of an entire game... but in my own experience playing both soccer and football, soccer is MUCH easier on one's body than football. And it's not even close. Football could simply not be played in the manner that soccer is with a running clock... there would be seriously injured/unconscious/possibly dead players laying all around the active playing field if that were the case. It would basically be a last-man-standing gladiator fight.

[PhilliesPhan]

The World Cup is just one component of what will be a very successful summer for Philadelphia. The City of Philadelphia, SEPTA, FIFA, and other bodies did an excellent job preparing for and delivering an excellent environment for the World Cup, from infrastructure improvements and beautification to crowd control and security. I’ve been particularly impressed with the FIFA Fan Fest at Lemon Hill. Philly made headlines for its Fan Fest, as 55,000 fans (with thousands more waiting in line) flooded Lemon Hill at its peak. Philly has had the best attended Fan Fest during the World Cup. I trekked up to Lemon Hill to see the England vs Argentina match yesterday. There were at least 10,000 people who showed up despite the match starting at 3:00PM on a Wednesday, the temperature being 97 and humid, and the fact that Philly is no longer hosting matches. I have loved seeing the international fans adding energy and revenue to businesses in Center City, University City, Fairmount, South Philly, and even as far as Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, and Conshohocken! Now that MLB’s All Star Weekend is coming to a close, it seems like Philly excelled as a host there as well.

When I learned who the other host cities would be, I knew that Philly would be among the best host cities. The Sports Complex is an easy subway ride from Center City, SEPTA did not jack up its fares during matches, Center City is near pre-pandemic business occupancy, certain businesses were authorized to sell alcohol until 4AM, and everything took place in one of the US’ most walkable and transit-oriented cities. From what I’ve been seeing on social media, Philly made a great impression on those who visited for the first time.

Finally, as someone who worked for one transit agency before the World Cup and currently works for another, I think both agencies did a spectacular job in ferrying fans. I have been watching the plans come together for years. It cannot be overstated how great it was that most fans did not need to drive down to the Linc to see the matches.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

The World Cup is just one component of what will be a very successful summer for Philadelphia. The City of Philadelphia, SEPTA, FIFA, and other bodies did an excellent job preparing for and delivering an excellent environment for the World Cup, from infrastructure improvements and beautification to crowd control and security. I’ve been particularly impressed with the FIFA Fan Fest at Lemon Hill. Philly made headlines for its Fan Fest, as 55,000 fans (with thousands more waiting in line) flooded Lemon Hill at its peak. Philly has had the best attended Fan Fest during the World Cup. I trekked up to Lemon Hill to see the England vs Argentina match yesterday. There were at least 10,000 people who showed up despite the match starting at 3:00PM on a Wednesday, the temperature being 97 and humid, and the fact that Philly is no longer hosting matches. I have loved seeing the international fans adding energy and revenue to businesses in Center City, University City, Fairmount, South Philly, and even as far as Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, and Conshohocken! Now that MLB’s All Star Weekend is coming to a close, it seems like Philly excelled as a host there as well.

When I learned who the other host cities would be, I knew that Philly would be among the best host cities. The Sports Complex is an easy subway ride from Center City, SEPTA did not jack up its fares during matches, Center City is near pre-pandemic business occupancy, certain businesses were authorized to sell alcohol until 4AM, and everything took place in one of the US’ most walkable and transit-oriented cities. From what I’ve been seeing on social media, Philly made a great impression on those who visited for the first time.

Finally, as someone who worked for one transit agency before the World Cup and currently works for another, I think both agencies did a spectacular job in ferrying fans. I have been watching the plans come together for years. It cannot be overstated how great it was that most fans did not need to drive down to the Linc to see the matches.

I agree. Philadelphia did a spectacular job with the World Cup but more generally, all the events this summer.

If anything...I think the lasting impact in Philadelphia will be on...Philadelphians. We've long been our harshest critic and these events have helped us to see the city in a new light. On top of that, there has been so much programming open and free to the public, which quite frankly, is often the case, but also over looked.

I think this summer has the potential to be a tipping point locally in terms of boosterism and civic pride. Philly (and the region more generally) have been on an upswing for a long time, but for the longest time I don't think we saw or acknowledged it ourselves. Perhaps that changes go forward.

Shapiro has done an excellent job of attracting new and international investment in terms of big new corporate facilities, so I wouldn't be totally surprised if it helps land the plane of a handful of deals that we might be in the running for already that have not already closed. Particularly among international companies.

The long and short of it is...the vibes have been immaculate in Philly all summer and if anything, I hope it continues.

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by IcedCowboyCoffee

I like to see teams play at the top of their technical ability, and forcing players to play this game in extreme heat just makes the quality of play worse for no reason. And watching a game being played on a water-logged pitch where the ball stops on a dime just isn't fun, it's not even the same sport.

Yes, this is how I see it too. Ideal conditions should be preferred by all sides. Slopping around on a muddy field, having a heat stroke, or kicking a ball into a wind that blows it back at you is pointless and needless.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Gresto

Yes, this is how I see it too. Ideal conditions should be preferred by all sides. Slopping around on a muddy field, having a heat stroke, or kicking a ball into a wind that blows it back at you is pointless and needless.

But when is the last time you saw top tier professional soccer being played on a field in sloppy, muddy conditions... the 1980s? Or maybe early 90s?

It just doesn't happen anymore because the pitches nowadays have crazy drainage vacuums and fans and hybrid turf and all other sorts of technology I know almost nothing about.

And when is the last time you saw a pro soccer player having heat stroke?

I just don't get these arguments... because they just don't happen anymore.


I mean, should the Premier League and La Liga go indoor?

[MonkeyRonin]

I might be a little biased as I can only speak to the experience of being in Vancouver, but I think it made a very fine host city. Our stadium isn't the biggest or the fanciest, but it benefits from having one of the most centralized locations amongst the host cities - along with Seattle and Atlanta - being one of the few to have it right in the core.

It's well set up with access to rapid transit, hotels, public spaces for events, and other tourist infrastructure in close proximity, which allows for a very "compact" experience (an important consideration for a good visitor experience, IMO). And it definitely adds to the vibe when the fan marches and celebrations can weave through the city and spill out into the streets after games, rather than being isolated in far-flung arena islands. 


https://ca.linkedin.com/company/bc-place


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-place-stadium-renaming-bids


https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZ_4nVLNUQR/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cejcH1roaa0


In terms of broader benefit for the city though, I'm not convinced it did much. Downtown businesses benefited tremendously (and not a bad thing either, as they've been struggling a bit in recent years), but tourism as whole wasn't really any higher than usual. Vancouver's already a busy enough tourist destination, so any extra advertising wasn't really necessary. Still, these kinds of events can have certain intangibles.

Perhaps more importantly, this was the first time a World Cup has been hosted in Canada, and was by far Team Canada's best showing to date (first win, first knockout stage appearance, first knockout win). The combination of the two could be a big force to help grow the popularity of the game domestically.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I might be a little biased as I can only speak to the experience of being in Vancouver, but I think it made a very fine host city. Our stadium isn't the biggest or the fanciest, but it benefits from having one of the most centralized locations amongst the host cities - along with Seattle and Atlanta - being one of the few to have it right in the core.

It's well set up with access to rapid transit, hotels, public spaces for events, and other tourist infrastructure in close proximity, which allows for a very "compact" experience (an important consideration for a good visitor experience, IMO). And it definitely adds to the vibe when the fan marches and celebrations can weave through the city and spill out into the streets after games, rather than being isolated in far-flung arena islands. 



In terms of broader benefit for the city though, I'm not convinced it did much. Downtown businesses benefited tremendously (and not a bad thing either, as they've been struggling a bit in recent years), but tourism as whole wasn't really any higher than usual. Vancouver's already a busy enough tourist destination, so any extra advertising wasn't really necessary. Still, these kinds of events can have certain intangibles.

Perhaps more importantly, this was the first time a World Cup has been hosted in Canada, and was by far Team Canada's best showing to date (first win, first knockout stage appearance, first knockout win). The combination of the two could be a big force to help grow the popularity of the game domestically.

Your thoughts echo mine for Toronto as well. Van had the better stadium (and location) for sure, but similarly BMO field is still well located even if not in downtown proper and led to some amazing fan marches. The vibe in the city has been incredible, though World / Euro Cup are always a pretty big deal. Canada doing well was the icing on the cake.

Agreed that overall the impacts for businesses were probably a wash. I suspect a lot of travellers here actually stayed with family/friends as opposed to hotels and while some bars profited very well others didn't see much changer or even a decrease in business. For instance the heavy metal themed craft beer bar near me that doesn't have tvs has been pretty dead (owner has relayed it's been her worst month), while the sports centred one has been rammed. Despite online naysayers transit held up very well and both TTC and GO reported significant increases compared to this time last year.

At the end of the day I'm very glad we were a host city even though there won't be many lasting impacts. We got some bus/streetcar priority lanes in the central city though so that's nice.

[sopas ej]

Leading up to the final match today at Metlife, I'm looking back on when the US last hosted the World Cup in 1994, when the final match was at the Rose Bowl. Over 94,000 attended. In fact, the Rose Bowl held 8 matches during the '94 WC---my guess is so that FIFA could make money off the tickets. Brazil beat Italy 3-2 on penalties. This was the first time a men's FIFA World Cup final was decided by a penalty shootout.

Vice President Al Gore presented the trophy.

• Video Link











Brazilians were celebrating their win in the streets of Old Town Pasadena.


Photos from Pasadena Star News, AP, Wikimedia Commons

[Nite]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Leading up to the final match today at Metlife, I'm looking back on when the US last hosted the World Cup in 1994, when the final match was at the Rose Bowl. Over 94,000 attended. In fact, the Rose Bowl held 8 matches during the '94 WC---my guess is so that FIFA could make money off the tickets. Brazil beat Italy 3-2 on penalties. This was the first and so far, only time, a men's FIFA World Cup final was decided by a penalty shootout.

The last WC (2022) was also decided by a shootout.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Nite

The last WC (2022) was also decided by a shootout.

I stand corrected! Thank you, I will edit my post.

[mhays]

To summarize a lot of the points about long-term effects on cities:

--Maybe soccer will grow as a sport (spectator and participatory). If so, will those 20,000-seat MLS stadiums be too small?

--Cities built permanent infrastructure with the WC in mind, or used the WC as a deadline for existing projects (probably the latter mostly). Other projects were delayed until after the WC.

--Cities cleaned up stadium and fan zone areas. This was mostly temporary.

--Some locals returned to remote work on game days or for the whole duration, particularly if they worked near the stadiums or fan zones. Will this be a setback for those employment centers?

--We built cultural understanding and togetherness between countries in a time when those things have been falling apart. This might extend to some permanent relationships.

--The cities got media attention, which might increase their global visibility and brand understanding. This might be particularly notable in the countries that sent teams to your particular city, and the difference will primarily be in the less-known cities.

--Non-WC tourists were often priced out and chose not to come to these cities or stay as long if passing through. Will they come another time?

--Fan zones, bars, etc., helped build community. I live near a smaller fan zone (a food/event hall next to the Space Needle) and watched 20-30 games there. It was an eclectic mix of tourists who just wandered in, misc soccer fans, and real partisans. Maybe some of that mojo will carry over.

What am I forgetting?