Phoenix Development News (4)

[builder03]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

What is going on on the south side of the 202 between about 40th and 44th st?

Data center. Very poor land use decision IMO. Would love to see more housing along the canal instead.

https://www.stackinfra.com/locations/americas/phoenix/phx02/

[combusean]

^ I used to think the same thing but there's no demand there. You're not that near groceries, anything urban, the independent restaurants and businesses Central Phoenix is known for, or a reasonable walk to the light rail. At the end of the day you're surrounded by a run down neighborhood with freeway smog and noise dominating the frontage.

Hangar 44 is doing 10 week concessions which is the worst I've ever seen.

[asugrad]

Ugh. This is why I've recently become against data centers in town. Doesn't help our heat island effect in the city.

https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/30/climate/data-centers-are-having-an-underrported

[combusean]

That "study" was so badly designed and clearly agenda driven, and of course was never peer reviewed before the marketing team got ahold of it.

Slopulism ain't science.

[asugrad]

Originally Posted by combusean

That "study" was so badly designed and clearly agenda driven, and of course was never peer reviewed before the marketing team got ahold of it.

Slopulism ain't science.

Whether or not you like that particular study isn't really the point. There is a growing body of research showing that large data centers can contribute to localized warming through waste heat, significantly increase electricity demand, and require substantial water for cooling in many locations. Those impacts have been documented by utilities, researchers, and government agencies not just a single report. If you think a specific study has flaws, that's fair, but dismissing the entire topic because of one study isn't a scientific argument.

Here is a study done in Mesa/Chandler

https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/s...a-Center-Waste-Heat-as-an-Emerging-Urban

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by asugrad

Whether or not you like that particular study isn't really the point. There is a growing body of research showing that large data centers can contribute to localized warming through waste heat, significantly increase electricity demand, and require substantial water for cooling in many locations. Those impacts have been documented by utilities, researchers, and government agencies not just a single report. If you think a specific study has flaws, that's fair, but dismissing the entire topic because of one study isn't a scientific argument.

Here is a study done in Mesa/Chandler

https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/s...a-Center-Waste-Heat-as-an-Emerging-Urban

Interesting study, but it doesn't seem like a very consequential finding. A degree C or so of observable temperature increase downwind for up to 500m from datacenters from waste heat doesn't overly concern me personally. That said, I would not be opposed based on information like that to trying to locate datacenters out of town, so long as it was a legitimate effort to allow datacenters but locate them away from population centers. Unfortunately, often for a complex cocktail of scientific and non-scientific reasons, anti-datacenter attitudes metastasize into no-datacenters-anywhere policies like just passed (as a 1-year moratorium on large datacenters) in NY (https://www.reuters.com/world/new-york-b...mpose-data-center-moratorium-2026-07-14/). Given the choice between dealing with waste heat and blanket statewide moratoria, give me the waste heat.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by asugrad

Whether or not you like that particular study isn't really the point. There is a growing body of research showing that large data centers can contribute to localized warming through waste heat, significantly increase electricity demand, and require substantial water for cooling in many locations. Those impacts have been documented by utilities, researchers, and government agencies not just a single report. If you think a specific study has flaws, that's fair, but dismissing the entire topic because of one study isn't a scientific argument.

Here is a study done in Mesa/Chandler

https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/s...a-Center-Waste-Heat-as-an-Emerging-Urban

Being able to recognize a badly designed study that doesn't control for variables or confounding factors and one that isn't peer reviewed before it's marketed is not subjective. These are things you learn when you read studies.

I'm sure skyscrapers and everything else that needs to be cooled generate a lot of waste heat too.

[TllrSkyline-01]

The US 'NEEDS' Data Centers. AI and data technology will take over everything whether we like it or not...from your finances, to planning, and personal or commercial business transactions. If we don't build them, other countries will...and it will become a national security issue. All software is moving to cloud-based operations...its just how it is!

I worked on 2 office-to-data center conversions in Silicon Valley a couple years ago, and yes, they require lots of electricity, but the heat load studies were not any worse than refrigerated warehouses, power plants, and large shopping areas with lots of paved parking lots. They can incorporate closed loop systems that do not use as much water, and many of the developers are using refrigerant based cooling...but that drives the electrical load dramatically higher. So, many are implementing solar and sub stations to help with the load, but that drives up costs. Eventually governments will need to regulate them better but not outlaw them and demagog them as we have seen in the media - and what NY did this week.

The location of this new center south of the 202 works well IMHO...I agree that residential so close to the airport and future cargo developments Sky Harbor is planning north of the north runway will make industrial and business zoning more compatible than residential.

[azsunsurfer]

Deepseek from China outperforms most of our LLMs and they only have a small fraction of our data center bandwidth.

We are also creating tons of future brownfield sites that we will not be able to afford to remediate mostly due to all the PFAS they emit....

[Eapiwo]

A lack of peer reviewed studies doesnt not warrant the presumption of innocence.

The scientific pipeline takes a long time. Data centers came up far faster than our ability to propose studies, find funding, create hypotheses, and conduct peer reviews of such studies. Usually, if something is as harmful as anecdotal or early research suggests, by the time peer reviews come out, they will only be confirming what is then obvious. Expecting a "perfect" study at this time showing definitively that these are heating up their communities is about as realistic as buying a lottery ticket and going to the Mercedes store before the winning numbers are pulled.

Data centers run essentially without regulation and with unlimited freedom. They have powerful friends who have little background with accountability when their companies cause harm. They are new and should be treated as such. They are an enormous gamble. We dont have 30 years of data to know whether or not they heat up cities, cause increases of cancer, pollute and or deplete the water supply, pollute the air, or cause audio-induced illness.

If we let these in, assume they're fine, and are wrong, we are super wrong and the toll will be enormous. I cant quite imagine anything China is doing that could justify throwing away the health and quality of life for Phoenicians in the name of keeping up on some tech race. What would the point of winning some tech race be if we emerge victorious having poisoned our own people.

The last thing Phoenix needs is a data center in their current forms, IMHO.

[combusean]

A lack of peer reviewed studies doesnt not warrant the presumption of innocence.

LMAO, yes it does. Science doesn't run on vibes.

A datacenter is basically a cold-storage warehouse. As such, they should belong in industrial areas, not next to homes.

End of story.

[Eapiwo]

Originally Posted by combusean

LMAO, yes it does. Science doesn't run on vibes.

A datacenter is basically a cold-storage warehouse. As such, they should belong in industrial areas, not next to homes.

End of story.

Not the end of the story. I'm not discussing pure vibes and I would hope that my BSCE grants me the ethos required to give an educated and respectable opinion on how to interpret the scientific method.

My point is that if something is dangerous, it doesnt ask for a study proving it is dangerous to be dangerous. It just is dangerous, even if there isnt enough peer reviewed evidence yet ro suggest such.

As an example, when we started using asbestos aggressively in the mid 1900s, we granted it the presumption of innocence because there were no major peer reviewed studies suggesting it couls be harmful. Major studies took decades do come to the realization that it was harmful and dangerous carcinogen. Under the presumption of innocence that it was safe, asbestos caused significant damage to the health of thousands of people. Lead in gasoline was another case of this.

Hyperscale data centers are yet another case of being in the relative uncharted waters where the consequences are not yet understood well enough for anyone to make a completely educated decision on best practices for placement and construction of these facilities.

That said, many of them include gas plants to generate their own electricity, which is something we already have the science to demonstrate is not ideal to be placed near residences, in urban areas, or quite frankly anywhere given the man made climate change, which I presume you believe to be real and a threat given your insistence on believing exclusively peer reviewed science.

I really dont think the risks of data centers in their current form outweigh the benefits. Few jobs, heavy resource use, and extreme potential for impacting the quality of life for all residents nearby.

Phoenicians deserve more certainty in their futures than these developments provide.

[combusean]

Dude, listen to yourself. You're imagining drastic, deadly asbestos-level considerations over a building that has higher than average cooling and power needs.

Hyperscale is a meaningless word that just represents a bigger than average data center, and these have been around for 20 years since cloud computing has been a thing. The consequences of them would be known by now.

You seem to think something else goes on in there beyond computers crunching data. I have managed hundreds of racks of these systems in my life and I promise you that is not the case. You throwing gas plants is spaghetti on the wall, because nobody is raising pitchforks over natural gas power plants today the way they over them being happenstance attached to datacenters.

Regardless, this conversation is ridiculous. Your completely unfounded paranoia suggests that maybe you should return your diploma.

And for what it's worth, I think it's economically suicidal to surrender to China on climate AND datacenters, so I don't buy that counterargument by itself.

[TllrSkyline-01]

There's approximately 6,000 registered cold food storage facilities in the US. Required to maintain interior temperatures from 0 to 43 degrees depending on product to keep food fresh and allow longer 'shelf' life. Not including the thousands of grocery stores with cold storage capacity to add to this list.

Data centers need to remain between 64 to 81 degrees. And hyper centers can run warmer thanks to new NVIDIA technology. The science does not support the drama here. Don't give me moral comparisons of which is more important, because farmers, and the food supply industry rely heavily on cloud data for accurate soil, irrigation, and fertilization implementation. The food / restaurant industry relies on this data for real time supply-and-demand information for storage, shipping, distribution and marketing of products.

WE NEED these data centers. CCP propaganda is actively trying to dupe Americans that these facilities don't belong in the US, while they are building them at breakneck speeds over there.

This 'mindset' against data centers is influencing the NIMBYs around the country...you can see that ANYTHING new that is being proposed is met with a larger number of resistance and derision. The development here south of the 202 makes perfect sense.

[Eapiwo]

So to be clear, a user shared a study from a university with early findings that data centers are warming our city, a negative effect. People are concerned with anecdotal reports of some pretty bad consequences arising from these new centers and question where they fit in the development of the city.

You reject the ASU study because it's "junk science" and isnt peer reviewed

Then, without any study cited you declare, "the consequences of them would be known by now."

Where is the peer reviewed study defending that claim? You dont have it. If we are staying true to the scientific process, we can't say with ANY certainty that these new developments are safe to be within any distance of residences. Not 1 mile, not 5 miles, not 10.


This was never about the scientific process which suddenly everyone just thinks they're refrigerated warehouses and wanting the city to proceed with caution when placing data centers is going to let the boogeyman, the CCP, win.

Got it. We are fully at the part of Don't Look Up where people want the comet to hit the earth for the jobs it can create

[plinko]

"...with early findings that data centers are warming our city, a negative effect."

Replace 'data centers' with just about anything manmade.

Admittedly, I haven't designed a data center in about 20 years, but I do occasionally design food processing facilities and if you think data centers are somehow worse for the environment, you aren't paying attention. But maybe we shouldn't allow food processing anywhere that people live either?

The simple reality is that unless you are living in a hogan and hand farming off of stored rainwater, you are contributing to climate change.

Data centers (which aren't a new thing BTW) are simply part of that human-built condition. For reference, there are at least (2) major data centers in downtown Phoenix. Should they be shut down due to proximity to people?

[azsunsurfer]

Can moderation please relocate this thread to the "General" subpage? Thank you.....

[az_daniel]

In other news....

The Louis Emerson House will be saved and ASU's med school will be revising their plans to accomodate the house in it's existing location. Not sure why that wasn't the case from the very beginning, but I digress. Ultimately this seems like a win for everyone involved.


Link: https://www.azfamily.com/2026/07/17/asu-withdraws-legal-action-acquire-one-phoenixs-oldest-homes/

[somethingfast]

The reason to hate data centers isn't necessarily any of the above but the fact that they will be used to put us all into some sort of digital gulag. The cameras are in place. Needs lots of number-crunching capability to constantly monitor 350-370 million people. It's happening.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Speaking of old houses. There isn’t any activity going on at 3rd Ave and McKinley again. Hawk.builders have their banners on the fencing, I checked out the website but no info on this project. About a month or two ago, there was dirt moving and there are sticks in the ground where the house should be going but they removed all the wood that was on the property and the trackers that were there are gone now and there’s been no activity going on there since I believe the beginning of June. Anyone have any idea what is going on here?