[Dartmouth] Dartmouth Cove | ? m | ? fl | Vision

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Really? as the saying goes it depends. A friend of mine works for Halifax water and has daily access to the Harbour quality report. His Daughters check in with him to see if they could or should swim in the harbour. Most days now you can whereas previous to the downtown treatment center being set up no.

Heavy rainfall can overwhelm the treatment center with some excess effluent but usually three to four Tides dissipates the excess rainfall and brings the water back to clean levels.

Good luck with that. I'm very well versed in the water on both sides (Arm is likely worse)... so it depends what depth and where, plus there are outfall breaks in certain areas with flotables.

There are live viruses at surface level in shallow or warm spots.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I was at the waterfront last week with a friend visiting from Ontario who used to live here and remembers the days of all sorts of nastiness floating in the harbour. This is just anecdotal, but he noted more than once how clear the water was. We went down the steps to the water at Queen’s Marque and it was quite obvious that the water quality is much better than the old days.

With water quality data backing it up, I think that the dirty water idea might just be a little outdated. Understandable if you haven’t been in the city for a very long time.

I grew up sailing in the harbour and Arm and am near the water on a daily basis in the summer.

Even with the treatment. The number of fuel leaks, etc. alone, plus raw sewage still goes in. People can do/think whatever they like, but it ain't clean.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is another area where I notice the glass half full vs. half empty disparity between Vancouver and Halifax. There probably are some differences (like advanced primary treatment vs. secondary and the question of where testing happens). In Vancouver the beaches sometimes exceed recommended levels and there are occasional similar issues with combined outflows rainfall or cruise ships but people view those as aberrations rather than the water "being filthy". Harbour solutions was finished over 15 years ago but the view of water quality is still way more negative and some people still seem to believe that sewage is normally dumped directly into the harbour.

Not sure exactly what the situation is but a quick google search indicated that there aren't regular tests along the Halifax waterfront for water quality for recreation. This seems odd as it's a busy area and there are ways to go in the water there like the steps. And it would be good to know which areas are or aren't clean enough and fix problems if they exist.

It still is. I know where the broken outfalls are. Hens and chickens area.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Bondi Beach Club by A.J. Forsythe, on Flickr


A quick pic to illustrate Bondi Beach Iceberg Club... which is very nice. But Dartgard is correct, our harbour is more than clean enough to swim in. And most folks who go to beaches just laze around on the sand anyway, no? ...a sand park by the water.

Indeed, that's Icebergs! Nice water. I'd take a filtered salt water pool over Arm/harbour water any day of the week (it's not clean).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

It still is. I know where the broken outfalls are. Hens and chickens area.

I wonder how this stacks up with other cities though. Around here there is still a working harbour, there are mixed outflows, and one of the major plants is primary only. Around the world you find people swimming in the Seine in Paris sometimes. Let's not even speak about some of the popular swimming spots in vacation destinations like Mexico or Cuba where I have a feeling ignorance is bliss for many people, yet they survive for the most part.

But either way I think transparent data collection and reporting is good. Some unknown areas might have good quality, and in the long run those localized water quality issues may be fixable. You can start with infrequent data collection and a warning that an area is "swim at your own risk".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Another thing in the long list of things that Halifax should be doing would be regularly sampling potential swimming areas and releasing the results to the news media for publication. It’s not unusual to see air quality results published but you rarely see water quality, unless some fresh water beaches are shut down due to high bacteria counts.

Otherwise we’re left to various conflicting anecdotal accounts on an internet message board.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder how this stacks up with other cities though. Around here there is still a working harbour, there are mixed outflows, and one of the major plants is primary only. Around the world you find people swimming in the Seine in Paris sometimes. Let's not even speak about some of the popular swimming spots in vacation destinations like Mexico or Cuba where I have a feeling ignorance is bliss for many people, yet they survive for the most part.

But either way I think transparent data collection and reporting is good. Some unknown areas might have good quality, and in the long run those localized water quality issues may be fixable. You can start with infrequent data collection and a warning that an area is "swim at your own risk".

I was in Copenhagen last week (taking advantage of one of our many new direct European flights), and that city is absolutely full of harbour pools. As recently as the early 2000s, it was quite polluted, and even now, there can be sewage overflows after heavy rains, but the vast majority of the time it's safe to swim in, and people do it by the thousands. (Don't get me started on the overall level of public amenity in Denmark compared to Canada.) Something like this in Halifax Harbour would of course be pooh-poohed (no pun intended) by locals who refuse to believe the harbour isn't sewage water, but I think for people who don't have such long memories, it would be a huge hit.

Of course any lingering pollution problems would need to be addressed, to whatever degree they exist, but this seems like a very practicable idea.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Another thing in the long list of things that Halifax should be doing would be regularly sampling potential swimming areas and releasing the results to the news media for publication. It’s not unusual to see air quality results published but you rarely see water quality, unless some fresh water beaches are shut down due to high bacteria counts.

Otherwise we’re left to various conflicting anecdotal accounts on an internet message board.

I have a vague memory of that once being a thing, based on foggy memories of certain areas being shut down for swimming. I suppose HRM is too busy spending on other useless things to have that done these days.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I have a vague memory of that once being a thing, based on foggy memories of certain areas being shut down for swimming. I suppose HRM is too busy spending on other useless things to have that done these days.

Looks like they still test in supervised swimming areas.

https://www.halifax.ca/parks-recreation/...-outdoor-pools-splash-pads#water-testing

[Jonovision]

It is interesting to see how the same narrative plays out in both cities. And this is purely anecdotal but look at Vancouver where they 'cleaned up' False Creek int he 1980s and since then the city and its residents seem to have completely embraced the coastal city aspects of urban living with beaches, and a real vibe of the harbour as being something that is truly part of the city for everyone.

Contrast that with Halifax who 'cleaned up' the harbour in the late 2000s and we still regularly hear people complain about how dirty the harbour is and how you shouldn't touch it.

I think it does speak to the glass if half full mentality that tends to exist on the east coast.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

It is interesting to see how the same narrative plays out in both cities. And this is purely anecdotal but look at Vancouver where they 'cleaned up' False Creek int he 1980s and since then the city and its residents seem to have completely embraced the coastal city aspects of urban living with beaches, and a real vibe of the harbour as being something that is truly part of the city for everyone.

Contrast that with Halifax who 'cleaned up' the harbour in the late 2000s and we still regularly hear people complain about how dirty the harbour is and how you shouldn't touch it.

I think it does speak to the glass if half full mentality that tends to exist on the east coast.

Indeed, as well as a strange commitment to embracing negative civic attributes--including exaggerated or imagined ones--as pillars of civic identity.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Guess we’re just a strange bunch out east… but it’s such a nice part of the world that people are still clamouring to live here anyway!

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

It is interesting to see how the same narrative plays out in both cities. And this is purely anecdotal but look at Vancouver where they 'cleaned up' False Creek int he 1980s and since then the city and its residents seem to have completely embraced the coastal city aspects of urban living with beaches, and a real vibe of the harbour as being something that is truly part of the city for everyone.

Contrast that with Halifax who 'cleaned up' the harbour in the late 2000s and we still regularly hear people complain about how dirty the harbour is and how you shouldn't touch it.

I think it does speak to the glass if half full mentality that tends to exist on the east coast.

I mean, people can do whatever they like, but I wouldn't confuse 'anecdotal' with real world experience in on all these waters on a more frequent basis.

The 'beach whistles' are still a thing.

Sailing on the water and get dunked in the body from time to time is one thing, but this is very different than full on swimming and going under the water.

I have a very positive view of the nautical options in and around the peninsula, yet its hard to say that the water is clean in close proximity to downtown or other areas. It's interesting to hear people's takes that likely have a very superficial understanding around the waters.

I mean, the comments around bacteria are only a half view of it. The amount of marine fuel and toxic chemicals that end up in the water are significant.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I have a vague memory of that once being a thing, based on foggy memories of certain areas being shut down for swimming. I suppose HRM is too busy spending on other useless things to have that done these days.

It's pointless to test anyway... it's very situational given the size of the body of water and diferences at depth.

I think the best places to be are the beaches that are a bit further away from the working harbour or arm beaches.

Thankfully the cruise ships aren't allowed to release waste in proximity.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I mean, the comments around bacteria are only a half view of it. The amount of marine fuel and toxic chemicals that end up in the water are significant.

This is true and people will have different ideas of what they're comfortable with. But I think the point is more that it's not so much a Halifax-specific thing and the ongoing challenge is common in coastal cities. I live close by the waterfront in Vancouver and can look out at it as I type this. It's a very busy harbour with a lot of industrial activity. I doubt English Bay is pristine, and the beaches out to third (Stanley Park) do sometimes get closed due to high bacteria levels. I saw this a few weeks ago.

I don't mind the NS complaining that much but I think realism should be the goal. The pollution issues around Halifax these days don't seem unique enough to justify a special reputation. And anyway if it is still badly polluted in significant areas then public data is good.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I mean, people can do whatever they like, but I wouldn't confuse 'anecdotal' with real world experience in on all these waters on a more frequent basis.

The 'beach whistles' are still a thing.

Sailing on the water and get dunked in the body from time to time is one thing, but this is very different than full on swimming and going under the water.

I have a very positive view of the nautical options in and around the peninsula, yet its hard to say that the water is clean in close proximity to downtown or other areas. It's interesting to hear people's takes that likely have a very superficial understanding around the waters.

I mean, the comments around bacteria are only a half view of it. The amount of marine fuel and toxic chemicals that end up in the water are significant.

With all due respect, it is anecdotal unless there is some scientific method (i.e. water testing for specific compounds) to go along with your observations.

Sure, fuel and toxic chemicals are bad. What is the concentration of fuel in the water where people may go swimming and how does that compare to accepted levels of exposure? What are the toxic chemicals, concentrations, etc?

I often give more credence to personal observations than most would in forums like this, but topics like this are much more useful with actual testing results. It would be super interesting to see how Halifax compares with other cities that are considered to be "clean", for example.

Personally, I agree with you that I would still not be comfortable swimming in the harbour (part due to memories of gross observations... , part due to personal preferences), but I also expect that it would be fine for some. What would be good would be more/better water testing, as mentioned before.

When I go swimming, I always will go to one of the many ocean beaches away from the city that we are blessed with as a coastal province. I have no idea what may or may not be in the water as I don't seek out testing results (if they exist), but they tend to pass the sight and smell test, so who knows...

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is true and people will have different ideas of what they're comfortable with. But I think the point is more that it's not so much a Halifax-specific thing and the ongoing challenge is common in coastal cities. I live close by the waterfront in Vancouver and can look out at it as I type this. It's a very busy harbour with a lot of industrial activity. I doubt English Bay is pristine, and the beaches out to third (Stanley Park) do sometimes get closed due to high bacteria levels. I saw this a few weeks ago.

I don't mind the NS complaining that much but I think realism should be the goal. The pollution issues around Halifax these days don't seem unique enough to justify a special reputation. And anyway if it is still badly polluted in significant areas then public data is good.

How is Victoria harbour?

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

This is a screen capture from ViewPoint. There wouldn't be much left of Dartmouth Cove should all the water lots be infilled eh?



Dartmouth Cove by A.J. Forsythe, on Flickr

[JET]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

This is a screen capture from ViewPoint. There wouldn't be much left of Dartmouth Cove should all the water lots be infilled eh?



Dartmouth Cove by A.J. Forsythe, on Flickr

Dartmouth Cove isn’t much different from the times of early settlement.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

How is Victoria harbour?

I don't have any kind of special insider knowledge or data although I go semi frequently. It is a relatively long and narrow working harbour with tugs, shipping, float planes, and so on. I believe Victoria has sewage treatment but that it was implemented pretty recently, maybe 2020 or so. But they had a long pipe that dumped the sewage farther out into the strait.

Victoria is very scenic and has nice coastal areas close to downtown but it is quite cool in summer, often in the high teens.

On a side note, downtown Victoria is doing pretty decently these days (it's always been lively for as long as I can remember, had a bit of a covid dip, but seems recovered) but there are a lot of disturbed individuals. It's a weird contrast with a lot of hippie free spirit type people, twee themed things, and folks on who knows what having a bad day.