Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[logicbomb]

It's looking like the old BC Rail line will be scrapped by CN. Makes sense as it would have cost billions to upgrade the corridor.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

It's looking like the old BC Rail line will be scrapped by CN. Makes sense as it would have cost billions to upgrade the corridor.

Which segment are you referring to? South of Squamish would be big news but I assume you're referring to north of Squamish.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by madog222

Which segment are you referring to? South of Squamish would be big news but I assume you're referring to north of Squamish.

North of Squamish. There were two short-line operators that showed interest in running service but there's now several areas that are partially washed out and many trestles that need rehab. Probably about 3-5bil to restore it. BC Govnerment is cash strapped.

CN is keeping the lease south of Squamish as they know they know many parties are interested in assuming control over it.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

North of Squamish. There were two short-line operators that showed interest in running service but there's now several areas that are partially washed out and many trestles that need rehab.

I thought that one of the terms of the lease agreement between the government and CN was to keep the line in good operating condition...?

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I thought that one of the terms of the lease agreement between the government and CN was to keep the line in good operating condition...?

Essential maintenance has occured and the track is still there. That's all that was required.

[whatnext]

So, just like the BC Liberal's catastrophically bad housing deal on Little Mountain, their selling off of BC Rail continues to haunt us...

B.C. government intends to protect CN railway from Squamish through Whistler for long-term transportation needs
Kenneth Chan
Jul 13 2026

One year after CN Rail first announced its plan to wind down its operations of the Sea to Sky railway corridor between Squamish and 100 Mile House, the Government of British Columbia formally outlined its position today of retaining public ownership of the corridor and protecting its long-term potential for goods and people movement and economic growth....

....Legally, after the conclusion of the one-year advance notice period this past weekend, interested parties can now propose to take over the long segment of the railway corridor north of Squamish beginning on July 11, 2026. CN Rail has not actually used this segment of the railway corridor since 2020...

...The deal included an initial 60-year lease with an optional 30-year extension, allowing for a total term of up to 90 years. At the time of the renewal, the provincial government would have the option to buy back the assets from CN Rail. Prior to this agreement, the provincial Crown corporation was a highly profitable freight business and stood as the third-largest railway in Canada, after Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC) and CN Rail....

...Since CN Rail’s announcement last summer, Patrick Weiler, the MP for West Vancouver-Sunshine Coast-Sea to Sky Country under the federal Liberal Party, and Jeremy Valeriote, MLA for West Vancouver-Sea to Sky with the B.C. Green Party, have been increasing their advocacy for the provincial government to use this opportunity to preserve the railway corridor for the possibility of reviving passenger rail services...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-government-cn-rail-corridor-sea-to-sky-squamish-whistler

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

...Prior to this agreement, the provincial Crown corporation was a highly profitable freight business and stood as the third-largest railway in Canada, after Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC) and CN Rail....

I'm not sure "highly profitable" is an accurate description of the state of BC Rail's operations at the time it was sold, and I say that as someone who worked for the Railway. But at the time it was an important lifeline to communities in the interior and it served as a means for the government to foster development in the province. Interior communities were up in arms at the sale at the time, and I'm sure they would have been even more vehemently against it had they known that the line would be abandoned only 15 years after CN took it over.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I'm not sure "highly profitable" is an accurate description of the state of BC Rail's operations at the time it was sold, and I say that as someone who worked for the Railway. But at the time it was an important lifeline to communities in the interior and it served as a means for the government to foster development in the province. Interior communities were up in arms at the sale at the time, and I'm sure they would have been even more vehemently against it had they known that the line would be abandoned only 15 years after CN took it over.

I would take this train to PG in the 80's. Not exactly a comfortable ride but significantly better than greyhound. And those trestle bridges were unbelievable.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I'm not sure "highly profitable" is an accurate description of the state of BC Rail's operations at the time it was sold, and I say that as someone who worked for the Railway. But at the time it was an important lifeline to communities in the interior and it served as a means for the government to foster development in the province. Interior communities were up in arms at the sale at the time, and I'm sure they would have been even more vehemently against it had they known that the line would be abandoned only 15 years after CN took it over.

The signs were there in the 80's when a ton of railways in North America were unnecessarily abandoned with federal and provincial/state regulatory bodies turning a blind eye due to pro-oil lobbyist promoting truck transport as a viable alternative. The Okanagan interior losing CP was massive and accelerated the deindustrialization we saw in Penticton and Princeton. CN getting privatized killed a ton of economic activity in many small communities.

I believe in privatization where it makes sense. An oligopoly owning the nations railways were always going to choke out any potential competition due to fierce restrictions on the mainlines. Colombia Rail has shown interest in the Sea-to-Sky corridor but there's a total dead end on both sides that are not going to make it financially viable. CN's primary objective is to totally remove the line.

This is why we are NEVER going to see any large scale passenger rail networks in North America. Taxpayers would need to bear the cost of new ROW's which would easily cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I believe in privatization where it makes sense. An oligopoly owning the nations railways were always going to choke out any potential competition due to fierce restrictions on the mainlines. Colombia Rail has shown interest in the Sea-to-Sky corridor but there's a total dead end on both sides that are not going to make it financially viable. CN's primary objective is to totally remove the line.

CN's plan was always to shut down the line south of Squamish and direct traffic from the interior northward to their interchange in Prince George. The effect was to make all the shippers on the line captive to CN whereas before they were able to chose an interchange carrier in Prince George or North Vancouver based on the rates and schedules that met their needs.

There were three bidders for BC Rail back when the government was shopping for buyers: CN, CP (now CPKC) and a holding company called OmniTRAX partnering with BNSF. OmniTRAX specializes in running smaller short lines and regional carriers. It's interesting to speculate whether they may have been able to make a go of it.

[madog222]

Last week Amtrak ran one of their new Airo trainsets of Siemens Charger locos and Venture cars on a test run along the entire Cascades route into Vancouver.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by madog222

Last week Amtrak ran one of their new Airo trainsets of Siemens Charger locos and Venture cars on a test run along the entire Cascades route into Vancouver.

I was looking at trains from Vancouver–Seattle and two things struck me...

1. These trains are often sold out.
2. The Everett-Seattle Segment is super popular
3. Sold out trains discourage Vancouver-Seattle travel.

I noticed that you will often find trains between VAC and EVE, but EVE-SEA are consistently full. I wonder if the new trains will allow them to run more trains from Everett because the seems like it's basically turned into a commuter train.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I was looking at trains from Vancouver–Seattle and two things struck me...

1. These trains are often sold out.
2. The Everett-Seattle Segment is super popular
3. Sold out trains discourage Vancouver-Seattle travel.

I noticed that you will often find trains between VAC and EVE, but EVE-SEA are consistently full. I wonder if the new trains will allow them to run more trains from Everett because the seems like it's basically turned into a commuter train.

They're operating at significantly reduced capacity with the interim replacement cars following the unplanned early retirement of the older Talgo fleet. The new trains will already be a significant capacity increase.
The eight new trains are replacing seven (counting the Talgo fleet) so I don't think they're planning to increase the number of trains run.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I was looking at trains from Vancouver–Seattle and two things struck me...

1. These trains are often sold out.
2. The Everett-Seattle Segment is super popular
3. Sold out trains discourage Vancouver-Seattle travel.

I noticed that you will often find trains between VAC and EVE, but EVE-SEA are consistently full. I wonder if the new trains will allow them to run more trains from Everett because the seems like it's basically turned into a commuter train.

I've looked too and four things stand out for me.

1. I can drive there faster, even if I have to line up at the border. Amtrak has customs anyway.
2. I can drive there cheaper, especially with more than one person in the car.
3. I can leave whenever I want, two trains a day does not cut it.
4. Seattle does not have the greatest transit once you get there so you better be only doing things downtown.

The only reason I would consider it is to take the scenic route, literally. And unfortunately.

If I could get to Seattle at 250km/h that's another story...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

If I could get to Seattle at 250km/h that's another story...

High speed rail only addresses 1 of your 4 concerns. And it probably makes the cost issue even worse. If the faster speed is enough to tilt the balance, then perhaps those other 3 concerns aren't really all that important to you?

[Vantage]

I've taken Amtrak Cascades 4 times between Vancouver and Seattle, and Vancouver and Portland. I don't own a car and I like trains so I don't mind the extra cost and time compared to the bus. The worst part is there is only 2 trains a day, so you either need to be at Pacific Central at the crack of dawn or take the train that leaves Vancouver at 22:00 (if it's on time).

The part of the journey in Canada is by far the slowest, once you get into The States the train goes much faster.

I've also taken public transit all the way back from Seattle, it is doable, takes about 8 hours, but only costs around $12.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I noticed that you will often find trains between VAC and EVE, but EVE-SEA are consistently full. I wonder if the new trains will allow them to run more trains from Everett because the seems like it's basically turned into a commuter train.

Seems like the mid-term goal should be getting Link extended to Everett then. Commuter and regional rail are supposed to complement a metro, not substitute for it.

[SFUVancouver]

The VIA announcement for the replacement long-distance and remote locomotive fleet includes a 20-year in-service support contract with Stadler who would have personnel located in VIA's maintenance centres across the country, including Vancouver. Stadler included some interesting new information in their press release:

https://www.stadlerrail.com/en/media/med...supply-45-hybrid-locomotives-to-via-rail

Exciting times! Excited to see the last piece come together soon (replacement of the long-distance passenger car fleet).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I noticed that you will often find trains between VAC and EVE, but EVE-SEA are consistently full. I wonder if the new trains will allow them to run more trains from Everett because the seems like it's basically turned into a commuter train.

Don't they run the Seattle Sounder as a commuter train for Everett-Seattle? Is it full or more expensive or something?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Don't they run the Seattle Sounder as a commuter train for Everett-Seattle? Is it full or more expensive or something?

The Sounder definitely gets the commuter crowd. It runs earlier and is far cheaper than Amtrak.
The difference is what time the trains come, the last sounder leaves Everett at 745 and the morning Amtrak leaves around 1030.