Alto High Speed Rail

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

"Common Ground Research". "Established" this calendar year; no "who we are" information to identify who the principles behind this sham organization are; GARBAGE survey design with leading or closed-ended questions; email-harvesting included; fake social media outlinks.

Colour me suspicious.

Oh, I definitely wasn't giving them an email address. . .

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm also not sure why you think their schedule is unrealistic. The barriers here are mostly regulatory. If the feds sweep them away, things move faster. That's true of more than just rail.

Regulatory AND political. Spending three years debating if a farmer's field can be cut in half, how much compensation and where to build an acess road is all political. These are the bane of democratic infrastruture projects. Even throwing money at the problem doesn't neccessarily solve as everything can be appealed.

[rocketphish]

Procurement process for high-speed rail project gears up

By Marissa Galko, OBJ
June 29, 2026

The procurement process for the construction of a high-speed rail route from Toronto to Quebec City has been launched.

Last week, Alto, the Crown corporation behind the high-speed rail project, and Cadence, the Canadian-led group of companies selected to spearhead the development of the project, launched a market engagement process by presenting proposed early procurement activities, anticipated work packages and timelines for the first segment of the project, expected to be between Ottawa and Montreal.

“The Alto high-speed rail project is one of the most significant infrastructure investments in Canada in decades, and with that comes an enormous breadth of opportunity for Canadian businesses of all sizes, from engineering and construction to technology, operations, and supply chain,” Loic Dorbec, a representative for Cadence, said in an email statement to OBJ last week.

The group’s procurement strategy “is designed to foster broad, open and competitive market participation, encouraging partnerships and collaborative initiatives that strengthen Canadian industry, while ensuring access to the international expertise required to deliver the first high-speed rail project of its kind in Canada,” Dorbec said in the statement.

To accomplish this, Dorbec said the rail project is being structured to create pathways for small and medium-sized enterprises and Indigenous businesses, as well as “ including smaller targeted work packages and requirements for major contract holders to demonstrate meaningful local participation,” to support the federal government’s “buy Canadian” framework.

He said that Cadence and Alto have been directly engaging businesses along the Ottawa-Montreal corridor, including hosting procurement roundtable discussions in June. “What we are hearing is directly shaping our procurement approach,” he said in the statement.

Documents prepared by Cadence about the procurement process show that the Ottawa-area portion of the project will require civil works such as earthworks, drainage and foundations, railway structures, roadworks and municipal utility relocations. Associated works would be needed for the construction of a bridge over the Ottawa River and the Ottawa station.

In July, Cadence will host three industry information sessions in Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal, with the first request for expressions of interest anticipated later this summer. Additional packages will follow through this fall and into 2027.

The rail project’s network would span 1,000 kilometres, with trains reaching speeds of 300 kilometres per hour. The project, estimated to cost between $60-90 billion, would begin with construction on the segment between Ottawa and Montreal in 2029-2030, with the full network expected to be operational in 12 years.

In February 2025, the Government of Canada selected Cadence as the preferred private developer partner for the Alto project. The group’s members include CDPQ Infra, AtkinsRéalis, Keolis, Systra, SNCF Voyageurs and Air Canada.

In January, Martin Imbleau, president and CEO of Alto, urged an Ottawa business crowd to get involved in the project.

“Imagine the talent and opportunities that Ottawa will be connected to. So instead of having three different localities, it becomes one big economic region. But before that, we need to build it. The opportunities (for) the development and construction (in) the Ottawa region is just fantastic. I need everyone to start preparing today, because construction will start in four years,” he said. “I need the businesses and construction community of Ottawa to get prepared for it.”

In his remarks, Imbleau said the project will offer many opportunities for Ottawa businesses.

“We’re already engaging producers to understand their capacity and readiness to provide us with domestic supply chains. Construction will also call for an army of expertise and workforce; 50,000 people will be required, enough to fill the Canadian (Tire) Centre three times over. We’re talking about Ottawa-based welders, surveyors, electricians (and) signal communication technicians to keep the train running safely at full speed at 300 kilometres per hour. Construction crews to build bridges, tunnels and electrified tracks, all with millimetre precision.”

https://obj.ca/national-bank-kickstart-ottawa-rapid-fcs-sponsorship-model/

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm also not sure why you think their schedule is unrealistic. The barriers here are mostly regulatory. If the feds sweep them away, things move faster. That's true of more than just rail.

1) They don’t have a route, not even a rough one. The fact that everyone was talking about Peterborough until a few weeks ago and now they are talking about Kingston confirms this. Greenfield rail projects, anywhere in the Western world take many years AFTER a route is finalized.

2). Is there any evidence the Feds are willing to sweep away barriers? There isn’t even an implementation bill or regulatory body yet. Carney has given no indication he is willing to play hardball with indigenous groups. He has given no indication he is willing to streamline environmental assessments or waive the requirement for one. We are in a legal system where courts are blocking Waterloo Region (for 4 years) from building a new train station on land it owns because there is a homeless camp there.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...residents-kitchener-encampment-9.7208419

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

2). Is there any evidence the Feds are willing to sweep away barriers? There isn’t even an implementation bill or regulatory body yet. Carney has given no indication he is willing to play hardball with indigenous groups. He has given no indication he is willing to streamline environmental assessments or waive the requirement for one. We are in a legal system where courts are blocking Waterloo Region (for 4 years) from building a new train station on land it owns because there is a homeless camp there.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...residents-kitchener-encampment-9.7208419

On this point you are comparing apples to oranges. The delay in Kitchener has nothing to do with regulatory requirements or environmental laws. It was a decision based on Charter rights, which is a review of the constitutionality of a municipal bylaw. Incidentally it was one lower level court that made that ruling, and it is under appeal.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

On this point you are comparing apples to oranges. The delay in Kitchener has nothing to do with regulatory requirements or environmental laws. It was a decision based on Charter rights, which is a review of the constitutionality of a municipal bylaw. Incidentally it was one lower level court that made that ruling, and it is under appeal.

Yes, but if a homeless encampment can delay the construction of a train station by 4 years (and that is municipal land next to an existing track) what hope does Alto have of getting anything done quickly?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by phil235

On this point you are comparing apples to oranges. The delay in Kitchener has nothing to do with regulatory requirements or environmental laws. It was a decision based on Charter rights, which is a review of the constitutionality of a municipal bylaw. Incidentally it was one lower level court that made that ruling, and it is under appeal.

I don't see how you can't see the obvious paralells and current state of our judiciary. There is a reserve just outside of Peterbourough. You don't think a court is likely so rule there is a duty to consult (aka bribe) this band on what may cut across lands they claim they need access to even if far from their current reserve? The consultation process ends up in a lot of grift but even worse is the process of extracting payment requires it be strung out as long as possible. They need to string out the process even if they actually agree to the project which is the nuance which is missed when we focus on projects where they have legitimate opposition to the development.

Meanwhile there are frogs and mosquitos that will be harmed and can be discovered to have constitutional rights.

This would be a good test case in avoiding a lot of environmental red tape for a project that seems certain to have a net environmental benefit. Certainly a train that wil take millions of car trips off the road can be allowed more leeway than a pipeline. To make this remotely affordable we won't be able to build this in the way we have been buildings things in this country. California relies on bonds and we theoretically have unlimited funds but it's pretty easy to see us spending 10s of billions without a single rail laid and then abandonning it with billions more to spend.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't see how you can't see the obvious paralells and current state of our judiciary. There is a reserve just outside of Peterbourough. You don't think a court is likely so rule there is a duty to consult (aka bribe) this band on what may cut across lands they claim they need access to even if far from their current reserve? The consultation process ends up in a lot of grift but even worse is the process of extracting payment requires it be strung out as long as possible. They need to string out the process even if they actually agree to the project which is the nuance which is missed when we focus on projects where they have legitimate opposition to the development.

Meanwhile there are frogs and mosquitos that will be harmed and can be discovered to have constitutional rights.

This would be a good test case in avoiding a lot of environmental red tape for a project that seems certain to have a net environmental benefit. Certainly a train that wil take millions of car trips off the road can be allowed more leeway than a pipeline. To make this remotely affordable we won't be able to build this in the way we have been buildings things in this country. California relies on bonds and we theoretically have unlimited funds but it's pretty easy to see us spending 10s of billions without a single rail laid and then abandonning it with billions more to spend.

Agreed on the question of overall environmental benefit versus specific impacts.

On the parallels, the only real parallel is that they are both reasons that a project could be delayed. There is a huge difference between the scenarios that is being glossed over - the government can pass legislation to streamline or remove environmental regulations, but it can't remove Charter rights.

And the duty to consult isn't going away either. The government has some control over the process, but not over the obligation.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

1) They don’t have a route, not even a rough one. The fact that everyone was talking about Peterborough until a few weeks ago and now they are talking about Kingston confirms this. Greenfield rail projects, anywhere in the Western world take many years AFTER a route is finalized.

2). Is there any evidence the Feds are willing to sweep away barriers? There isn’t even an implementation bill or regulatory body yet. Carney has given no indication he is willing to play hardball with indigenous groups. He has given no indication he is willing to streamline environmental assessments or waive the requirement for one. We are in a legal system where courts are blocking Waterloo Region (for 4 years) from building a new train station on land it owns because there is a homeless camp there.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...residents-kitchener-encampment-9.7208419

They literally published a study corridor. And opponents have been mapping their survey requests which makes it clear they do have a route. They've been making city councils sign NDAs, not to disclose said route. You not knowing about the route doesn't mean they don't have one. Is the political interference troubling? Absolutely. Doesn't mean they don't have a route.

As for regulatory change. There's already one piece of legislation in the works. And there's plenty of time for more.

But let's be honest here. You're seeing what you want to see, which is failure. Not surprising for someone that has not seen value in the idea ever. At this point, is there any infrastructure you actually support building? Serious question. Cause I've only seen you bitch and moan about everything.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

They literally published a study corridor. And opponents have been mapping their survey requests which makes it clear they do have a route. They've been making city councils sign NDAs, not to disclose said route. You not knowing about the route doesn't mean they don't have one. Is the political interference troubling? Absolutely. Doesn't mean they don't have a route.

As for regulatory change. There's already one piece of legislation in the works. And there's plenty of time for more.

But let's be honest here. You're seeing what you want to see, which is failure. Not surprising for someone that has not seen value in the idea ever. At this point, is there any infrastructure you actually support building? Serious question. Cause I've only seen you bitch and moan about everything.

I think you are so desperate for this project to occur in a certain timeframe that you’re disregarding obvious signs the government is not nearly as serious about that timeframe as you are, or not willing to take the steps to get it in your preferred timeline.

A study corridor is not a route. A study corridor is what you do when you’re trying to find a route. The surveys, etc are not in a line, they are in a general area. Whether it is political interference or not the Ontario segment has been significantly rerouted in the last few weeks, which means they need another study corridor to look for another route.

“One piece of legislation in the works” is extremely vague and could mean just about anything.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think you are so desperate for this project to occur in a certain timeframe that you’re disregarding obvious signs the government is not nearly as serious about that timeframe as you are, or not willing to take the steps to get it in your preferred timeline.

A study corridor is not a route. A study corridor is what you do when you’re trying to find a route. The surveys, etc are not in a line, they are in a general area. Whether it is political interference or not the Ontario segment has been significantly rerouted in the last few weeks, which means they need another study corridor to look for another route.

“One piece of legislation in the works” is extremely vague and could mean just about anything.

Desperate? LOL. No.

This thing will take 15 years. I don't even know if I'll be living anywhere near this in 15 years. So no, not desperate.

Excited to see this country actually build proper infrastructure? Absolutely. Some of us can see past immediate self-interest.

I am calling you out. Because I am sick of your political bias hiding behind some bullshit fake skepticism.

We get it. You don't like the party in power. And you don't think this should be built (sneaky how you've stopped broadcasting your disdain for HSR more recently). Ergo, you see failure at every turn. You think people can't go back and see your post history on this topic? You were right years ago on the lack of progress. I agreed with you then. But it's bizarre to imagine this to be true today when they are months away from starting land assembly and putting out specific RFEOIs (which would let them build their Limited Tender List) on Montreal-Ottawa. Apparently, that's something you do when you don't have a route.....



There isn't a project of this magnitude anywhere in a democracy that goes off without any twists and turns. But this one seems to be doing better than the average Anglosphere (notoriously incompetent) megaproject so far.

[urbanforest]

Originally Posted by acottawa

“One piece of legislation in the works” is extremely vague and could mean just about anything.

They've already legislated new powers for Alto to expedite land acquisitions through C-15, among other measures related to the project.