World Cup 2026

[Nite]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I don’t think it’s fair to say the MLS is the reason Canada has a competitive team now. The MLS very much remains a retirement league for the stars of Europe, not a development league for the soccer stars we will need to win a World Cup one day.

The CPL has no development pathway at the moment, because the MLS, with teams in our three biggest cities, takes all the attention when it comes to professional soccer in Canada. Had Canadian teams never entered the MLS, far more would be invested into the CPL and other levels of soccer in Canada… down to the grassroots, which matters the most.

Here’s an excerpt from Alphonso Davies’s Wikipedia Page, the greatest footballer in Canadian history:



I don’t think it’s the MLS academy system that we have to thank for Davies becoming a football star, but rather, the grassroots after school soccer program in Edmonton. Davies could have become an even better player and even bigger star had he been recruited by a European club instead of the Whitecaps. Canada should be investing more in the grassroots of soccer if we want to see more of our top players getting recruited by the top clubs in Europe… but we’ll clearly need much better Canadian academies, a better domestic league system, and much more invested in the grassroots for that to ever happen.

If the big 3 MLS clubs had the vision and national pride to sell their MLS franchises, they could become the big 3 of the CPL, and we could eventually see billions invested into professional soccer in Canada.

We’re never going to win a World Cup, or have nation wide soccer culture, unless we follow the countries that actually do have football culture… and step one towards being more like Europe and South America would be no more teams in the MLS.

Again, soccer is by far the most popular sport among newcomer Canadians, has been the most popular participation sport in Canada for a long time, and is already one of the most popular spectator sports in the country, soccer (or football’s ⚽️ )

I think it’s important to keep in mind that ratings for soccer viewership in Canada are not nearly as accurate as the ratings figures are for hockey, basketball, baseball, or the other football… because so much of what’s being watched by Canadians are non official streams of football matches from across the pond in Europe.

I think a stronger CPL could attract football coaches and trainers from around the world to work in Canadian Premier League academies, especially if Canada continues to be seen as a place where immigrants are more welcome, and where football ⚽️ isn’t as much of an afterthought as it is in the United States. There’s some very small European countries with strongly supported domestic football leagues, and I see no reason why the Canadian Premier League couldn’t become a much more important league in the footballing world… especially if the MLS owners ever have the balls to do the right thing and leave their American League to join the CPL and invest in the future of Canadian soccer.

If Canada makes it further than the US in the knockout round, or even ahead of some of the more established footballing countries, Canada will be taken more seriously by the footballing world and our Canadian Premier League will be seen as more desirable by playing, coaching, and developmental talent around the world. It’s just really hard to develop the CPL into a better league while the three MLS teams continues to exist in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver.

19 of the 26 players in the Canadian national team are current or former MLS players. Only 1 is from the Can PL who now plays in MLS.
If Canada goes far in this world Cup, it is MLS rightfully which will get the accolades.

So you don't think Davies joining the Whitecaps academy at 14 was important in his development???
The CPL has no such developmental pathways for their teams and a large chuck of their players are former members of the 3 Canadian MLS developmental academies. Through MLS, Canada now has 3 world class academies that are pumping out professional players every year.
Canada would lose these academies if the 3 MLS teams left to join the CPL.

keep in mind that the The 3 Canadian MLS teams alone have more players in their system than the entire CPL Currently. if one of those Canadian MLS left MLS for the CPL then you use the money to support the developmental academies and from U13 all the way to the several semi pro and professional teams below the senior team.

From Gemini:

Toronto FC
Toronto FC operates a massive development pyramid in Ontario, pulling from regional talent pools.
Senior Team (MLS): 28 players currently occupied on the active roster.
Reserve Team (Toronto FC II - MLS NEXT Pro): Roughly 24 to 28 players under direct reserve contracts.
Youth Academy (U-13 to U-19): Fields teams at the U-13, U-14, U-15, U-17, and U-19 levels. Averaging 20 to 22 players per age group, the academy accounts for approximately 100 to 110 players.
Total System Estimate: 152 to 166 players.

Vancouver Whitecaps FC
The Whitecaps manage a highly synchronized setup that stretches across Western Canada.
Senior Team (MLS): 26 to 28 players on the senior roster.
Reserve Team (Whitecaps FC 2 - MLS NEXT Pro): 25 players on the reserve team, utilizing a heavy mix of academy call-ups.
Youth Academy (U-13 to U-19): Fields teams in the U-13, U-14, U-15, U-17, and U-19 divisions within MLS NEXT. Averaging roughly 20 players per squad, the academy holds about 100 players.
Total System Estimate: 151 to 153 players.

CF Montréal
CF Montréal focuses on a streamlined, highly competitive academy pathway primarily serving Quebec and Eastern Canada.
Senior Team (MLS): 27 to 29 players on the roster.
Reserve Team (CF Montréal Reserve): Roughly 22 to 25 players. (Unlike Toronto and Vancouver, Montréal routinely transitions their oldest academy groups directly into the reserve structure).
Youth Academy (U-13 to U-17): Fields teams at the U-13, U-15, and U-17 tiers. Averaging 22 players per squad, the core youth system accounts for roughly 66 players.
Total System Estimate: 115 to 120 players.

It cost between 4 to 8 million USD to run the reserve and academy teams in MLS
If a Canadian MLS team joined the CPL you loose everything but the senior team.
So all development would be lost as the CPL doesn't try and can afford to have developmental academies.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Baseball without the Jays is pretty weak but professional soccer is still way behind given the weakness of domestic leagues and diffusion and timezone changes for European leagues.

Fifa round of 16 on a Saturday afternoon should top Superbowl and Jays recent world series though. 10 Million+ ?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if soccer takes over as the clear #3 sport after this WC run. Like baseball and is not growing at all in Canada unless that Vancouver MLB pipe dream becomes reality someday. Having just the Jays being Canada's main interest is not a recipe for growth.

Canada being a consistent WC nation and if we can hold onto our Vancouver and Montreal franchises in the MLS while it grows will inevitably cement its foothold on the country. Soccer is still by far the most popular global sport and pretty popular with Gen Z. Hockey and baseball interest are clearly in decline in the next generation, while soccer and basketball are on the front foot.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by svlt

I wouldn't be surprised at all if soccer takes over as the clear #3 sport after this WC run. Like baseball and is not growing at all in Canada unless that Vancouver MLB pipe dream becomes reality someday. Having just the Jays being Canada's main interest is not a recipe for growth.

Canada being a consistent WC nation and if we can hold onto our Vancouver and Montreal franchises in the MLS while it grows will inevitably cement its foothold on the country. Soccer is still by far the most popular global sport and pretty popular with Gen Z. Hockey and baseball interest are clearly in decline in the next generation, while soccer and basketball are on the front foot.

If hockey is #1 what do you consider to be #2?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

If hockey is #1 what do you consider to be #2?

I can only assume they are talking about television numbers, because I would have to guess soccer is the #1 played sport in Canada, at least up until the teen years. Even the fat kids like me played soccer when we were 9.

For TV, hockey obviously is 1, I would put baseball 2 simply because of the volume of the product over the year, with NFL probably not far behind. Hockey (7 Olympics and 1 Stanley Cup final game) and the Super Bowl are tied at 8 each of the top 20 television broadcasts in Canada, with the other 4 being 2010 opening and closing ceremonies and games 6 and 7 of last year's World Series.

I don't know that even if Canada won the WC that it would catapult MLS up the ranks of TV viewing though. I like to watch golf a bit, but Mike Weir winning the Masters didn't make the regular weekly tournaments any less boring to me. Soccer would be the same I think to a lot of people. This is an event. Canada playing this weekend could conceivably knock a Super Bowl out of that top 20 list, but you aren't going to see Toronto FC setting lighting a ratings fire if Canada advances further.

[MolsonExport]

Baseball would be a solid #2 if the Expos were still around. I like the Jays, but I really miss my Expos.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Soccer is a much more popular sport in Canada by viewership than official Canadian viewing statistics show… as much of the soccer being watched by Canadians is via non official streams of European leagues.

If non official viewing totals are taken into account, I think soccer/football would already be the second most popular sport in Canada by viewership.

[Calgarian]

Football is #2 here by a long shot, CFL is moderately popular, but go to any pub on a Sunday or Monday during NFL season and you will see who Canadians care about.

Really happy we made the round of 16, will take an absolute miracle to get past it though. Think most Canadians will be happy with the 2nd knockout stage.

[jc_yyc_ca]

I agree, the MLS isn't the main reason Canada's game has been elevated, but it's also not fair to say it hasn't helped. A number of our players either play in the MLS or have played there before going onward to Europe. The MLS has particularly been helpful at filling our substitute roster.

True that maybe Davies would have done better going straight to Europe instead of playing for the Whitecaps first, but we don't know that. We have no idea where his career would have gone without the Whitecaps.


IMO Canada's success has come from multiple factors.
- Better coaching
- The MLS
- Better ground roots development (U15, U16 and so on)
- Last world Cup they had a core of young players in the early 20's. That same core is still together and 4 years more experienced.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I don’t think it’s fair to say the MLS is the reason Canada has a competitive team now. The MLS very much remains a retirement league for the stars of Europe, not a development league for the soccer stars we will need to win a World Cup one day.


I think a stronger CPL could attract football coaches and trainers from around the world to work in Canadian Premier League academies, especially if Canada continues to be seen as a place where immigrants are more welcome, and where football ⚽️ isn’t as much of an afterthought as it is in the United States. There’s some very small European countries with strongly supported domestic football leagues, and I see no reason why the Canadian Premier League couldn’t become a much more important league in the footballing world… especially if the MLS owners ever have the balls to do the right thing and leave their American League to join the CPL and invest in the future of Canadian soccer.

If Canada makes it further than the US in the knockout round, or even ahead of some of the more established footballing countries, Canada will be taken more seriously by the footballing world and our Canadian Premier League will be seen as more desirable by playing, coaching, and developmental talent around the world. It’s just really hard to develop the CPL into a better league while the three MLS teams continues to exist in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver.

This is the conundrum. I agree a stronger CPL would benefit Canada directly, but this is a very steep hill to climb. If we took away the three Canadian MLS teams and relied solely on the CPL, even a strong CPL would still be at a disadvantage. Top players will still end up in Europe or the MLS. We talk about soccer being an afterthought in the US, but it's growing just as fast if not faster in the US.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I think a stronger CPL could attract football coaches and trainers from around the world to work in Canadian Premier League academies, especially if Canada continues to be seen as a place where immigrants are more welcome, and where football ⚽️ isn’t as much of an afterthought as it is in the United States.

It’s just really hard to develop the CPL into a better league while the three MLS teams continues to exist in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Canadian franchises in US dominated leagues are always afterthoughts. Even the Jays and Raptors (and whatever the Toronto WNBA franchise is called) are looked down upon and I bet in New York (where I assume the league offices are) the executive suite would be much more comfortable without those pesky canucks and their 70 cent dollar hanging around.

In the MLS, would Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal rather be the top dogs in CPL or the poor cousins in the MLS. I know what Toronto wants, they'd much rather be the poorly dressed hick at their second couisins fancy country club (that they can never truly be part of) than have to suffer the embarrassment of being stuck at the public hall with their country mice brothers and sisters.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Canadian franchises in US dominated leagues are always afterthoughts. Even the Jays and Raptors (and whatever the Toronto WNBA franchise is called) are looked down upon and I bet in New York (where I assume the league offices are) the executive suite would be much more comfortable without those pesky canucks and their 70 cent dollar hanging around.

In the MLS, would Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal rather be the top dogs in CPL or the poor cousins in the MLS. I know what Toronto wants, they'd much rather be the poorly dressed hick at their second couisins fancy country club (that they can never truly be part of) than have to suffer the embarrassment of being stuck at the public hall with their country mice brothers and sisters.

Pray tell, what practical implications does "being looked down upon" have for the Canadian MLS teams? Or the Jays for that matter (who have a bigger payroll than Chicago, Philadelphia, Houston, etc.)

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Pray tell, what practical implications does "being looked down upon" have for the Canadian MLS teams? Or the Jays for that matter (who have a bigger payroll than Chicago, Philadelphia, Houston, etc.)

Toronto is always looking over the fence pining to be accepted by the USA while doing nothing to put the rest of Canada on its shoulders by being all in on supporting Canadian domestic leagues and culture.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Toronto is always looking over the fence pining to be accepted by the USA while doing nothing to put the rest of Canada on its shoulders by being all in on supporting Canadian domestic leagues and culture.

Such an ill-informed comment based on feelings.

[samne]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Toronto is always looking over the fence pining to be accepted by the USA while doing nothing to put the rest of Canada on its shoulders by being all in on supporting Canadian domestic leagues and culture.

No. Why suffer quality when you can have the best. Whether it’s MLB, NBA, NHL or NFL. For soccer it’s Premier League, Champions League etc.

That’s why we can also get behind the World Cup because it’s the… best.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Football is #2 here by a long shot, CFL is moderately popular, but go to any pub on a Sunday or Monday during NFL season and you will see who Canadians care about.

Really happy we made the round of 16, will take an absolute miracle to get past it though. Think most Canadians will be happy with the 2nd knockout stage.

Sure, but there’s only 16 games per season in the NFL… versus 160 games per season in the MLB and 82 games per season in both the NHL and NBA.

As for soccer, there’s like 5 major European leagues, all of which play 38 games per season (iirc) which all have higher viewership by Canadians than the MLS does, it’s just not reflected in official viewing statistics.

Edit: the European football season can actually be over 60-70+ games depending on how far the teams make it in Champions League/ Europa League.

I think there’s a difference between which sport is most popular and which sport has more viewers. The NFL remains very popular in Canada, but does it really have more viewership than the NBA and MLB considering how many more games are played in those leagues, or considering the NBA playoffs is 4 rounds of 7 game series versus 1 game single elimination matchups in the NFL playoffs.

It will be interesting to see what the official Canadian viewing statistics will be for this World Cup when all is said and done… I think it should be significantly higher than the figures for 2022, especially with so many more games and Canada already making it past the first knockout round.

Even more interesting would be if the Canadian census asked us to rank our top 5 team sports… I think soccer would be a lot closer to the top 2 or 3 than a lot of posters in this thread seem to think.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

If hockey is #1 what do you consider to be #2?

It's gotta be gridiron football if we are talking about whole of Canada if you combine CFL+NFL interest. That's just my take.

Baseball, soccer and basketball will all vie for third place which is a huge change from when soccer was a clear, clear 5th a couple of decades ago.

I have no interest in hockey but I know it will always be #1 in Canada. Even 100 years from now if we are still a federation.

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I don't know that even if Canada won the WC that it would catapult MLS up the ranks of TV viewing though. I like to watch golf a bit, but Mike Weir winning the Masters didn't make the regular weekly tournaments any less boring to me. Soccer would be the same I think to a lot of people. This is an event. Canada playing this weekend could conceivably knock a Super Bowl out of that top 20 list, but you aren't going to see Toronto FC setting lighting a ratings fire if Canada advances further.

If we won the WC in a 1-in-1000 year event of that happening soccer would be #2 sport here without question and stay there for decades. Like if we fluked our way in and it was a one off, every dual national would want to play for us and we'd get far better players. There are loads of guys who could've played for Canada that chose other countries. We'd be hugely competitive for years to come.

Korea making it to the semifinals 24 years ago has made a whole generation of Koreans huge soccer fans. Granted they were already fairly into soccer by then but it was transformational in a way that would be impossible without the world cup achievement.

If we even made the quarters I think that would move the needle in fan interest.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Toronto is always looking over the fence pining to be accepted by the USA while doing nothing to put the rest of Canada on its shoulders by being all in on supporting Canadian domestic leagues and culture.

Originally Posted by samne

No. Why suffer quality when you can have the best. Whether it’s MLB, NBA, NHL or NFL. For soccer it’s Premier League, Champions League etc.

That’s why we can also get behind the World Cup because it’s the… best.

Honestly while I wouldn't single out Toronto specifically, I've quietly been getting more skeptical about the integrated leagues myself. With hockey for instance, I have to wonder if the players spending so much time in the US and playing on mixed teams has made them more sympathetic to the US perspective and more detached from Canada. The majority of Canadian NHL players are based in US teams, and even the ones that aren't spend a huge amount of time there because so many of the teams they're competing against are based there.

Did that contribute to stuff like Gretzky's BS? Did it reduce the Canada Olympic teams' competitive drive when competing against their US buddies? Should we really have such a central and important part of Canada's sport culture so highly integrated with a now hostile neighbour to the point where we're subservient tag-alongs? It's something hard to conclusively prove but it makes me uncomfortable.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Honestly while I wouldn't single out Toronto specifically, I've quietly been getting more skeptical about the integrated leagues myself. With hockey for instance, I have to wonder if the players spending so much time in the US and playing on mixed teams has made them more sympathetic to the US perspective and more detached from Canada. The majority of Canadian NHL players are based in US teams, and even the ones that aren't spend a huge amount of time there because so many of the teams they're competing against are based there.

Did that contribute to stuff like Gretzky's BS? Did it reduce the Canada Olympic teams' competitive drive when competing against their US buddies? Should we really have such a central and important part of Canada's sport culture so highly integrated with a now hostile neighbour to the point where we're subservient tag-alongs? It's something hard to conclusively prove but it makes me uncomfortable.

All good, thought provoking points.


I’d say the big difference between the NHL and MLS though, is that the NHL is, by far, the best professional hockey league on earth, while the MLS is debatably not even in the global top ten of professional soccer/football leagues.


It would be tremendously difficult and probably extremely unpopular for a CANEXIT to occur in the NHL… but the MLS? Not so much.

The MLS isn’t even close to the most popular soccer league among Canadian soccer fans, as the top flights of Europe are far more popular when it comes to viewership among Canadians… even if much of that viewership is on non official streams online.

Sure, there might be some MLS super fans in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal that don’t want to see their clubs leave the MLS and join the CPL, but most soccer fans in Canada won’t care about the three Canadian clubs leaving the MLS, since they don’t follow the MLS to begin with.

I get that the MLS has done a lot to develop Canadian soccer talent, but it really hasn’t done much to create “soccer culture” across Canada, since there’s only teams in our three biggest cities … and Canada is quite a big, spread out country to say the least.

Professional soccer in Canada should be modeled after the English Football League system (complete with relegation/promotion)… and not modeled after American pro sports traditions like is the case with the MLS… at least not if the goal is to actually grow soccer culture, or even win the World Cup one day!

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It would be tremendously difficult and probably extremely popular for a CANEXIT to occur in the NHL… but the MLS? Not so much.

What makes you think it would be extremely popular for Canada to leave the NHL? Do you just mean as a reaction to the current elbows up environment? While it's true that Canada provides a great deal of the NHL's talent, the NHL salaries might still lure a lot of Canadian players so it isn't clear how much the league would be diminished. Plus, people tend to resist change and many would feel a nostalgic attachment to the NHL and the different teams.

Unless that was just a typo and you meant un-popular.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

What makes you think it would be extremely popular for Canada to leave the NHL? Do you just mean as a reaction to the current elbows up environment? While it's true that Canada provides a great deal of the NHL's talent, the NHL salaries might still lure a lot of Canadian players so it isn't clear how much the league would be diminished. Plus, people tend to resist change and many would feel a nostalgic attachment to the NHL and the different teams.

Unless that was just a typo and you meant un-popular.

Yeah, that was a typo, meant unpopular lol

Sorry

[Nouvellecosse]

Ok that makes more sense then lol