Texas and Charlotte had built McMansions—now they’re copying California designs

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 38 Geary

Typically no, they're more considered side yards, with not much more space than an area for a grill or a couple of lounge chairs. Most of these types of developments come with a community center with pool, gym, communal space instead, as part of their HOA of course.

Here's what they typically look like:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TZUHAYdzhbLS7x1i8

One more question... are these condos? Or the houses owned individually and just subject to an HOA? I've seen condos like this in the suburban northeast and Midwest, but those are typically townhouses instead of detached.

[38 Geary]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

One more question... are these condos? Or the houses owned individually and just subject to an HOA? I've seen condos like this in the suburban northeast and Midwest, but those are typically townhouses instead of detached.

These are usually marketed as townhomes and they are for sale, so to be owned by individuals, and most of the maintenance and groundskeeping and stuff is done through HOA.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

What 38 Geary said, although some do have small yards. My friend uses her small back yard as a vegetable garden, and she also has patio furniture and a pergola.

This is closer to where she lives; you can see the small yards.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.991956,-..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

The houses at the end of the block have a slightly larger yard, as you can see here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9919584,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Don't get me wrong, I honestly don't like these particular setups either. These are basically single-family homes that might as well be townhouses.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe them. This is the area where I lived when I was in Fremont:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5453043,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

...the house took up 95% of the lot. What little left was the driveway and some landscaping. Very easy upkeep unlike my house here.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Those were built on grids though. Not the cul de sacs. Fairfax County VA has some of these cul de sac streets, but they aren't McMansion type developments. They're older, modest ranch homes mostly.
Is it nice with trees? I guess, but it's still crazy unwalkable and far from basic amenties. The only people walking around are those with dogs.

Loundon County is newer than Fairfax, and their older suburbs I can't say are charming or anything.

They were sometimes built on grids, but not exclusively by a long shot. Regardless of whether a neighborhood is gridded or not, the areas were still rather ugly and treeless when they was established. Gridded street design made them much more walkable and connected to business districts, so yeah I totally get what you're saying there.

Though I'm certainly not thinking of Fairfax or Loudon counties in VA when I refer to "streetcar suburbs". I'm referring to earlier suburban development in the 1890s-1930s-ish era, I guess.

Thinking more about places like Chevy Chase/NW DC, Squirrel Hill and Mt. Lebanon in Pittsburgh, Shaker Heights and Lakewood in Cleveland, multiple outer neighborhoods and bordering towns of Philadelphia... these places come to mind because I'm closely familiar with them, but there are I'm sure hundreds we could cite. These may be built on street grids, like Lakewood, or not, like Mt. Lebanon (which has plenty of 1920s cul-de-sacs actually) or Shaker Heights... but they were all bare and treeless neighborhoods at one point, constructed by only a handful of builders in a relatively short period of time.

They were the McMansion neighborhoods of the day, if you will.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Those McMansion neighborhoods in Texas might look better in 30 years? So its gonna suck and be ugly most of your /our life? Whats the point? By the time it might look nice, those homeowners could be 70 years old.

Honestly, suburbia in 30 years is likely facing a massive decline for QOL. By the time it looks "nice" it might be completely undesirable.

And what kind of trees will grow in the McDensity neighborhoods? Very few. At least stuff can grow back on big lots, if people allow it. There is no flexibility on really small lots. So what if it takes 30 years? It takes 30 years for a tree to mature anywhere. Should we not replant forests because you might be dead by the time it looks like it is almost complete?

I don't know about Texas particularly, since I don't know if certain areas should be prairie or woodland, but on the East Coast, almost the entire place was forested before being cleared. There is a chance for reforestation to a degree.

[dave8721]

You can at least do minimal trees in these new crammed in development. Here is your typical new South Florida development. 1900 square foot boxes crammed on essentialy zero-lot-line lots:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4499284,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Here is what it looks like from street level. You can fit a tree or two:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4493823,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Or semi-connected homes: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4715486,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[sopas ej]

Yeah, trees shouldn't be an issue. Here's a newer development yet again in Chino, CA that has trees:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avigno..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

My friend's development, which was built in 2018, already has some saplings that have grown much larger:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avigno..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

This is what it looked like in 2019:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avigno..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[Easy]

Originally Posted by 38 Geary

This is what they look like in the Bay Area. These 3-4 story townhomes are all the rage these days. Not too many new SFHs being built anymore.

Land prices in urban California make building SFHs difficult economically. You have to go out to super commuter cities in the Central Valley and IE where they're still building a ton.

[Comrade]

Didn't Vivarium take place in Ireland?

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by dave8721

You can at least do minimal trees in these new crammed in development. Here is your typical new South Florida development. 1900 square foot boxes crammed on essentialy zero-lot-line lots:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4499284,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Here is what it looks like from street level. You can fit a tree or two:
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4493823,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Or semi-connected homes: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4715486,..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Yeah, trees shouldn't be an issue. Here's a newer development yet again in Chino, CA that has trees:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avigno..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

My friend's development, which was built in 2018, already has some saplings that have grown much larger:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avigno..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

This is what it looked like in 2019:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Avigno..._ep=EgoyMDI2MDYyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Those places do look better (although the last one in California shown I think isn't really that good). The Florida example seems to have the best potential for mature tree growth, with those very big grass squares acting as placeholders.