Winnipeg | Portage and Main

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

What did the original agreement say?

In general I would say if the City owns it, they need to maintain it. They also have the right to close it. I wouldn't call this underground concourse "critical" to the survival of the City, the way the property owners are. It's an enclosed walkway. They're both still posturing, the City and the property owners.

I believe property owners would strongly argue that closing the concourse would negatively affect their property values. It would reduce usage of their underground portions, create dead space, and lead to higher CRU vacancies — all of which would lower rental income. At the same time, most people who live and work in the area and regularly use the concourse would likely support keeping it open.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Doesn’t the City have a clear obligation to maintain the infrastructure it owns? The Richardson buildings, 201 Portage, and 360/300 Main have each made substantial investments in their portions of the concourse. These properties contribute millions in property taxes annually those dollars should be used to maintain the city owned concourse.

Wasn't the whole idea of the underground concourse both a "city" and a "Trizec" idea originally? I think "way back when" the city was pretty pumped to have any kind of new downtown construction and were sold on the underground walkway as kind of a "win-win" with the developer. The city would have freer traffic flow around P & M and the developer would have a funnel to draw pedestrians onto their property. I guess my point is I don't think the underground walkway would have been on the city's radar without some pretty strong encouragement from the developer. The concourse wasn't a standard piece of city infrastructure, it was a request (or maybe a demand?) from the developer. Because of that I don't think it's out of bounds to ask the stakeholders who benefit from that specialty construction to chip in a few bucks. Just IMO, of course, for whatever that's worth.

[cllew]

Today I found a CBC Manitoba article from Feb 2017 in which Brent Bellamy aka our TRUEVIKING was talking about the detail of what was proposed to be built underground.

"The city at the time was not in great economic straits. They were looking for development very much, and there was a big developer that came in that promised to do two towers and a big, Garden of Eden-type underground development," said Brent Bellamy, creative director at Number Ten Architecture in Winnipeg.

"If you see the original images, it's quite spectacular," he said.

The original drawings depicted an underground gathering area several levels deep, with overhanging, interconnected spaces featuring bowling alleys, theatres and high-end restaurants, Bellamy said.

It was presented as "a wonderful, underground Nirvana," he said, connected to a 30-storey skyscraper and a ritzy new hotel promised by the developer.

"The city was just salivating over that," Bellamy said.

Up until today I had never heard about the enhanced underground development, I always thought what we ended up with is what was proposed to the city.

Full interview here with more information on the whole underground concept https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-portage-main-concourse-anniversary-1.3997314

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by cllew

It was presented as "a wonderful, underground Nirvana," he said, connected to a 30-storey skyscraper and a ritzy new hotel promised by the developer.

Yep, promises, promises. Did the developer ever really intend to deliver on their promises, or was this just another bait-and-switch? The answer is lost in time, I fear.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

I believe property owners would strongly argue that closing the concourse would negatively affect their property values. It would reduce usage of their underground portions, create dead space, and lead to higher CRU vacancies — all of which would lower rental income. At the same time, most people who live and work in the area and regularly use the concourse would likely support keeping it open.

Would it be stupid to close the underground? Yes of course. Is it really critical though, again I think not.

When someone says critical infrastructure. To me it relates to things required for sustaining life and society. Like water supply, electricity, hospitals, housing. Not an underground walkway.

[Sheepish]

It would be great to see the renders in Winnipeg Unbuilt thread.

[Wpg_Guy]

• Video Link

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by cllew

Today I found a CBC Manitoba article from Feb 2017 in which Brent Bellamy aka our TRUEVIKING was talking about the detail of what was proposed to be built underground.

"The city at the time was not in great economic straits. They were looking for development very much, and there was a big developer that came in that promised to do two towers and a big, Garden of Eden-type underground development," said Brent Bellamy, creative director at Number Ten Architecture in Winnipeg.

"If you see the original images, it's quite spectacular," he said.

The original drawings depicted an underground gathering area several levels deep, with overhanging, interconnected spaces featuring bowling alleys, theatres and high-end restaurants, Bellamy said.

It was presented as "a wonderful, underground Nirvana," he said, connected to a 30-storey skyscraper and a ritzy new hotel promised by the developer.

"The city was just salivating over that," Bellamy said.

Up until today I had never heard about the enhanced underground development, I always thought what we ended up with is what was proposed to the city.

Full interview here with more information on the whole underground concept https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-portage-main-concourse-anniversary-1.3997314

[Sheepish]

TV... thanks for posting this. I believe (based on my recollection and looking at this...which I had seen before) that this is the center courtyard of what was to be the CN hotel (situated between the two towers). And I think the last interior panel is of the Scotia Bank Atrium...as it was originally envisioned.