Does your city have any buried transmission lines?

[cabasse]

specifically referring to the big boys - 70kv or higher.



houston_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _orlando

i saw this video recently discussing one of LA's first underground lines, the 230KV scattergood-olympic running underground between south of LAX and a substation in santa monica. the original cables were installed back in the early 1970s, and used some interesting technology with high pressure cooling oil oscillating with a period of ~6hrs. newer lines seem to just rely on thick solid plastic insulation, with no moving parts, as was the upgrade/replacement for scattergood.

• Video Link

i've been curious what other cities out there have undergrounded sections of their transmission network, especially any currently involved in one of these projects. outside of LA, NYC, and DC i've only been able to uncover a few - web searches and sleuthing via EIA maps and google earth.

here in the broader south, they seem to exist in florida (orlando, st pete, tampa) and texas (dallas and houston) but i'm curious where else this is a thing. i had previously come across something about some transmission being buried in phoenix but can no longer find it; also i thought i remember seeing the transmission line running down 8 mile in detroit go underground via one of those kinds of towers pictured above, but i don't remember exactly where that was, or if it's still the case.


a few examples:

st petersburg: 345kv from duke energy bartow plant to substation at 275 and Gandy Blvd (you can follow the ROW between the two, even though there are no overhead lines beyond the plant substation)

tampa: plant ave substation which seems to have no visible/above ground HV connection, but is probably linked to the substation at jefferson/washington in downtown, or de leon and fremont in hyde park.

atlanta: east downtown substation which also seems to have no above ground feeders. i assume it's connected to woodward ave or another nearby station underground. this is the only substation i know of here without a visible HV tower feeding it. atlanta is otherwise covered in a web of above ground transmission that usually shares a corridor with arterial roads, and i freaking hate it. you can't get away from looking at these things here.

houston: a substantial (both length and capacity) line out on the west side that runs about 7 miles, 345KV. Starting at I10 and marqE center and running north west, crossing under sam houston tollway before emerging at a substation just before the nature preserve.

are there any undergrounding projects like these going on in your city? i'd love to know more about how to get the ball rolling on this kind of thing. a lot of people i've discussed the topic with locally seem apathetic to it.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Not nearly enough of it unfortunately. I wish every single one of the lines through our forests and along the LA River were undergrounded

[biguc]

Berlin has this 380kv line mostly buried. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_380-kV_electric_line

Interesting story about connecting the East/West grids, including burying the overhead lines in East Berlin, in there if you're into that kind of stuff. Apparently there's a little inspection railway in the tunnel too.

[cabasse]

^ absolutely, lol. it bridges multiple interests, technology + cities/infrastructure.

that's a cool example, also looks to be from the 70s - i think i see where it first goes underground after a short distance from the spandau power plant A 100 - Google Maps here. that's some real HV, those insulators/bushings look like they're 20' tall.

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Not nearly enough of it unfortunately. I wish every single one of the lines through our forests and along the LA River were undergrounded

tell me about it. i realize the primary goal of utility operators is making as much $$ as possible for shareholders, but the argument against, referencing underground faults seems to be an excuse based on older, unreliable tech using liquid cooling.

[pdxtex]

I work for the power company. Yes and no. Most of Portlands transmission circuits are above ground but downtown is fed by two enormous feeds that run under the river. Portland is split up in two tho with our company serving the north side of the city and Portland General Electric serving everyone else. Fun fact. North America's first long distance transmission line was built in Portland.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Not nearly enough of it unfortunately. I wish every single one of the lines through our forests and along the LA River were undergrounded

It seems like So Cal's power producers don't screw up as much as PG&E, but since I live in the forest...yes burry it all. Not only is it dangerous, it's also ugly AF. They do things like cut around trees so they will still be standing but have an odd shape.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by TWAK

It seems like So Cal's power producers don't screw up as much as PG&E, but since I live in the forest...yes burry it all. Not only is it dangerous, it's also ugly AF. They do things like cut around trees so they will still be standing but have an odd shape.

Hydro-Québec is a massive government owned utility that is negotiating a project designed to sell clean power to New York City and the Southern oart of New York state. They are of course facing opposition from competing utilities that use gas and other sources to generate electricity. Their latest playing card to counter opposition to the power lines on a North/South axis is to install underground cables and underwater ones that would lie at the bottom of lake Champlain and the canals, rivers til they reach NYC. H-Q had a major reversal recently when Mainers voted against an overground line to bring power to Massachussetts in a referendum. Again, competing utilities had a substantial war chest to counter the projected line.

[Matthew]

In Winston-Salem, a life science developer bought almost the entire eastern third of downtown Winston-Salem to convert into an Innovation District. The site had several large historic industrial buildings they renovated. Some dating back to the late-1800s. The centerpiece of the land and buildings they acquired was an old power plant. There were high voltage power lines, an underground waterway, and the remnants of an international rail port that was built in the 1910s through an act of congress. Renovating the existing buildings is somewhat easy, but preparing the other sites for new ground-up development required removing unused rail lines, relocating active rail lines, demolishing and rebuilding the streets and sidewalks, and moving both standard and high voltage power lines underground.

Yes, a power plant downtown in a Before-and-After. You can see the skyscrapers in the background:

Link

The old power plant (and its buildings from 1926-1947) cleaned-up really well, as a biotech/life science complex, with restaurants, a gym, a brewery, elevated walkways along former rail lines that provide access to second floor retail spaces, and an outdoor performance space called the Coal Pit. A decommissioned transformer site across the street from the power plant, surrounded by barbed wire fence, became a park with food truck courtyard, performance stage, festival green, and a water wall. It became the new center of downtown. When people talk about areas that someone who hasn't visited in a few years wouldn't recognize, this is Winston-Salem's pick.

I think this (photograph below) is where the power lines in downtown are sent underground. They did this in the past ten years, so it is recent. It sort of looks as if they are entering pipes, as described in the video? Old images from this area show them continuing toward downtown on tall metal poles. The most recent image shows this structure as new and the lines toward downtown are gone.


Link

It's Duke Energy. I don't know all of the technical details. I do remember this was a big deal, took a while to complete, and was very expensive. You can also see the Duke Energy right-of-way with this structure in it.

[cabasse]

great example, and something recent - you can see the before and after on street view. looks like a 100KV line per https://www.eia.gov/state/maps.php. impressive, winston salem!

[MolsonExport]

Toronto's are all above ground. On purpose. I think somebody must love the way that they look. Growing up in Montreal, I never saw much of above-ground power pylons (they did exist in the rural areas), but Toronto, man, these things are fookin everywhere, even along the beach in Burlington.

Great fucking idea, right?

thestar

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Hydro-Québec is a massive government owned utility that is negotiating a project designed to sell clean power to New York City and the Southern oart of New York state. They are of course facing opposition from competing utilities that use gas and other sources to generate electricity. Their latest playing card to counter opposition to the power lines on a North/South axis is to install underground cables and underwater ones that would lie at the bottom of lake Champlain and the canals, rivers til they reach NYC. H-Q had a major reversal recently when Mainers voted against an overground line to bring power to Massachussetts in a referendum. Again, competing utilities had a substantial war chest to counter the projected line.

At least there is some level of competition and y'all can export power....Northern California is screwed with just having PG&E who can't stop their equipment from failing.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Toronto's are all above ground. On purpose. I think somebody must love the way that they look. Growing up in Montreal, I never saw much of above-ground power pylons (they did exist in the rural areas), but Toronto, man, these things are fookin everywhere, even along the beach in Burlington.

Great fucking idea, right?

thestar

So ugly and if people live around these high transmission lines, cancer cases are increased.

[biguc]

I need to print that picture out, keep it in my wallet for every time a European asks me why I'd move away from such a beautiful country.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Toronto's are all above ground. On purpose. I think somebody must love the way that they look. Growing up in Montreal, I never saw much of above-ground power pylons (they did exist in the rural areas), but Toronto, man, these things are fookin everywhere, even along the beach in Burlington.

Great fucking idea, right?

those are huge, and right along the beachfront - reminds me of a scene out of koyaanisquatsi. i'm probably the outlier, but these actually don't bother me as much as the urban ones, since the population density is so much lower.

re: twak - i'm skeptical of the connection between EMF and cancer but the nice thing about the buried ones - the electric field component of EMF is basically negated as it's shielded.


here's another big one, 230kv, haymarket to gainesville (VA) - drone footage below:
• Video Link

[nito]

The most prominent overhead power lines remaining in London are the lines down the River Lea and from West Ham to Barking in east London. Both of these routes come up in conversation quite a lot because they overlap areas with a lot of development. Due to the value of the land they occupy, I suspect that they will end up being buried in the near future. There is also an inner and outer overhead/tunnel ring around London for resilience.

Most of the London power grid is in tunnel, with recent additions being:
- 20km 400kV Elstree to St John’s Wood (2005)
- 6km 400kV Lower Lea Valley (2008)
- 32km 400kV London Power Tunnel Phase I (2016)
- 6km 132kV (x3) New Cross to Finsbury Market (2017)

The latest addition will be the 32.5km 400kV London Power Tunnel Phase II due to be completed in 2026.

• Video Link




Images sourced via openinframap: https://openinframap.org/#10.65/51.4998/-0.024

[Innsertnamehere]

Burlington is actively planning on spending something like $12 million to bury the lines along the beach, thankfully. The fact they have existed like that for so long is mind-boggling.

I mean they are literally right on the beach, and Burlington Beach is otherwise one of the nicest beaches in the province:


https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-re...hydro-towers-disappear-a-tall-order.html

The Hamilton side of the beach has the towers set back more significantly so they aren't as prominent, but the beach also isn't nearly as nice (more of a rock beach than the nice sand on the Burlington side).

[Busy Bee]

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[dave8721]

I wish we buried our lines here. It is always a huge issue with hurricanes or even strong storms knocking out power.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Not nearly enough of it unfortunately. I wish every single one of the lines through our forests and along the LA River were undergrounded

yes, this.

Here is an obvious example of the uglification these power pylons bring to the surroundings.

[MolsonExport]

These are everywhere in Toronto, despite the insanely high land prices and chronic lack of space for housing.



Welcome to Toronto:

[hipster duck]

Other than obvious blights like the Burlington beach ones, these don’t bother me. I think the fact that we have such large rights of way for high voltage power lines is a huge asset in the year 2026 when transmission capacity needs to double to meet the needs of EVs, data centres, electrified heating, etc.

Above ground poles are ugly but they’re useful. I’ve heard an argument that one reason why Germany is stalling in productivity is because it’s harder to lay fibre optic cables for a faster internet because all utilities in urban areas are buried and hard to access. I don’t think it’s the only reason, nor even the number one reason, but it’s an interesting theory.