General Updates and News

[someone123]

Another difference is that there's random street disorder and BS you have to deal with here that is on another level from Halifax, or at least what it used to be. If you live even in a nicer part of the city you'll see people doing drugs, screaming, piling up garbage, their pants fall off, and on and on. Nothing really bad happens but I wouldn't want to have to deal with that stuff running a business or let children see it. I am sure Halifax is worse than it used to be, but it's still probably a lot tamer.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Appreciate the perspective.

Also a tradeoff would be level of activities, like Halifax doesn’t have a major sports team, whereas Vancouver and Toronto have options that we may never have.

Is this kind of thing a dealbreaker (of even a major consideration) for many people? I don't know, but I doubt it, personally. Certainly we do have relatively less in terms of sports, touring entertainment, etc, than most larger cities. On the other hand, we offer a lot more than most small/mid-sized cities. There is a tendency locally to compare Halifax's amenities and offerings to big big cities, when really we ought to be comparing ourselves to London, ON, or Winnipeg. Then we come out very nicely!

For your average person, the things-to-do itch is very amply scratched locally, I think. There is definitely a subset of people who have niche interests or really want a lot of nightlife or entertainment offerings that you can usually only get in a meaningfully larger city, and realistically we just can't offer that, so we shouldn't beat ourselves up over it.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Another difference is that there's random street disorder and BS you have to deal with here that is on another level from Halifax, or at least what it used to be. If you live even in a nicer part of the city you'll see people doing drugs, screaming, piling up garbage, their pants fall off, and on and on. Nothing really bad happens but I wouldn't want to have to deal with that stuff running a business or let children see it. I am sure Halifax is worse than it used to be, but it's still probably a lot tamer.

There was a reddit thread last week in which people talked about Spring Garden Road like it was East Hastings. It was deluded, very online complaint echo chamber.

There are definitely panhandlers and some associated sketchy goings-on, but there was also a lot of "It's scary to be on SGR in the middle of the day" type talk, which...I don't even really know how to respond to. If I operated a store dealing with theft I might feel differently, but as a random citizen, SGR is very much on the low end of the street-disorder scale in Canada, let alone globally.

[Keith P.]

That Reddit thread was a pretty even split between people saying “it’s fine, no different than any other place” to a nearly equal number of firsthand accounts of unpleasantry to crime to drug use and worse. When I traversed that street regularly at the end of the last century there was none of that aside from the odd panhandler and teenage scammers. How that compares to other nasty areas elsewhere I do not know. I do feel it’s a shame that HRM seems to generally deal with such things with a shrug and upturned hands like they can’t do anything. It’s the same with other urban annoyances like the panhandlers walking in traffic at busy intersections, which is surely against some law but which is never dealt with. HRM ignores such “hygiene” quality of life issues.

In terms of prices of properties, while Toronto condos are more expensive even with the slump in the market there over the last year or so, it is interesting to see what you can get there given the amenities and area attractions. I find this podcast perpetually interesting, partly because David Fleming is not only a real estate agent but also quite entertaining. This was his offering from last week:

https://youtu.be/ypR97lx7-mM?si=FMePfUhwnhcb0hH2

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Appreciate the perspective.

Other things that might factor in would also be employment opportunities, salary, and taxation levels. Not sure how this qualifies and fits into the equation but it could have a fairly severe effect on affordability.

Also a tradeoff would be level of activities, like Halifax doesn’t have a major sports team, whereas Vancouver and Toronto have options that we may never have. There are also lots of other stuff that it would take forever to list. So while we may list apartment size or commute as QOL aspects where Halifax has an advantage, there are many other aspects that we are not including in our outlook. Not to mention the weather advantage that Vancouver and Victoria hold… Toronto not so much… lol.

Point is, it’s not so simple, but the overall cost vs QOL quotient might be closer than you are thinking.

It's shocking how hyper accelerated costs have been in HRM since COVID. Wages in my field(s) are nominally 20-30% lower than here in Saskatchewan and the cost of rent in HRM vs what I have here in Saskatoon is slightly more than double the cost. Not to mention the higher taxes and poorer infrastructure.

If anything, Halifax is the worst city in the country for all 3 of these metrics but we can all say that statistics can be twisted to paint an agenda we want.

[Antigonish]

I'll also expound on the idea on lack of pro sports because in that regard I'm fine with it despite being a big sports guy. I remember in college back in the 2000s friends from Ontario/BC would gripe about lack of entertainment, there's only 3 malls here, where are the theme parks, etc., only to change their tune after about 4 months in the province.

Because of the lack of corporate sanitized entertainment Nova Scotians are incredibly resourceful and proactive in creating our own entertainment rather than have someone else do it for us. Back then we had an incredible underground music and art scene, lots of social events, hell even kitchen parties were a Friday & Saturday staple. You could show up to the house of someone you vaguely knew and asked to come in and party and they'd welcome you in no problem. It's a real grassroots mentality I've always been proud of.

As for the sports, professional leagues and teams are overrated because of the outrageous costs of tickets. And who cares for minor league teams anyway? They have no players or connections to the local community so I couldn't care less. I'd gladly pay $5-$7 for a ticket to a Senior A County League Hockey game full of local guys who are ex-juniors/college guys playing for their local village club (full fighting and everything!)

[Musicman Halifax]

The big issue in Halifax (and the east coast in general) is that wages are depressed compared to other parts of the country even tho our costs are similar. Take union electricians for example we are the second lowest paid in Canada. Even after our last contract we are paid 11$ less per hour than Saint John NB. We are paid 24$ less per hour than Toronto area locals and I don’t want to even talk about how much less we are paid than Vancouver. If you compare to the states the numbers don’t even make sense.

Employers have to realize wages have to increase substantially.

[someone123]

I am sure it depends on the industry but if you look at even after-tax incomes Halifax doesn't really stand out much:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/250718/t004b-eng.htm

I think the gap has been shrinking a little from 2023 to 2026. There is an article here about income growing 4.6% in a year (NS-wide) after adjusting for inflation: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/ns-workers-wages-inflation-2025-9.7175840

They have a chart there should AB/SK wages tending to drop over the past decade. AB had a huge income premium in 2015 that has dropped significantly.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Is this kind of thing a dealbreaker (of even a major consideration) for many people? I don't know, but I doubt it, personally. Certainly we do have relatively less in terms of sports, touring entertainment, etc, than most larger cities.

We're not talking dealbreakers here. Someone123 nuanced the conversation with apartment size/quality, commute time, etc. I further nuanced it with access to major sports teams, events, other amenities (perhaps like museums, an aquarium, performing arts centres, etc). Does it balance out? I dunno, not for me, but maybe for others?

Anecdotally a few years ago I was talking to a guy who lived in Toronto and was considering moving here. One of the first things he mentioned that was giving him pause was sports, as he was a major Blue Jays fan and going to the games was a highlight to him. Just one data point, but it is a thing for many. Friends of mine who live in Toronto but weren't sports fans as far as I knew got caught up in the Blue Jays playoff hype last fall - said how exciting it was to be in the midst of all the enthusiasm. It can be a thing for people that going to a Mooseheads game won't fulfill, even when we hosted the Memorial Cup, for example (of course it was popular, but you can't compare the scale).

Originally Posted by Drybrain

On the other hand, we offer a lot more than most small/mid-sized cities. There is a tendency locally to compare Halifax's amenities and offerings to big big cities, when really we ought to be comparing ourselves to London, ON, or Winnipeg. Then we come out very nicely!

London or Winnipeg weren't on the radar in this discussion, as the cost of living articles were referring to Vancouver/Victoria, Ottawa and Toronto mostly.

Originally Posted by Drybrain

For your average person, the things-to-do itch is very amply scratched locally, I think. There is definitely a subset of people who have niche interests or really want a lot of nightlife or entertainment offerings that you can usually only get in a meaningfully larger city, and realistically we just can't offer that, so we shouldn't beat ourselves up over it.

To be fair, it's kinda apples and oranges as a comparison. As I said, I only used those to nuance the conversation, not as a main point.

Not that I'm arguing anything, because you couldn't pay me enough to live in Toronto. Maybe Vancouver or Victoria, but I would have to wind a lottery first. I'm happy in NS, but have noticed huge changes to the negative side in Halifax over the past 10 years specifically and the last 3-4 years have been the most dramatic IMHO.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Another difference is that there's random street disorder and BS you have to deal with here that is on another level from Halifax, or at least what it used to be. If you live even in a nicer part of the city you'll see people doing drugs, screaming, piling up garbage, their pants fall off, and on and on. Nothing really bad happens but I wouldn't want to have to deal with that stuff running a business or let children see it. I am sure Halifax is worse than it used to be, but it's still probably a lot tamer.

This peaked 2-3 years after Covid around here, but is still prevalent. The few times I've gone downtown late at night in recent years I've been aggressively approached by panhandlers, the last one strongly suggesting that I go to a bank machine to get money for him. I shut it down pretty quickly but it had the potential to escalate. I don't go downtown nearly as much as I used to though. Last year my nephew was borderline attacked but luckily for him a couple of bystanders helped him out.

I'm sure it's much better than Vancouver in that respect, but it's much worse than it was 10 years ago.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

It's shocking how hyper accelerated costs have been in HRM since COVID. Wages in my field(s) are nominally 20-30% lower than here in Saskatchewan and the cost of rent in HRM vs what I have here in Saskatoon is slightly more than double the cost. Not to mention the higher taxes and poorer infrastructure.

If anything, Halifax is the worst city in the country for all 3 of these metrics but we can all say that statistics can be twisted to paint an agenda we want.

Yeah it's true. Halifax is still a great place to live, but the downturn is palpable. I don't think anybody is attempting to paint agendas, even though what you say is a fact. To me, I look for personal experience, what I see around me, and what I read as symptoms that there's something going on. Nobody can tell the whole story, and it's all far too complex to attach simple judgements.

In the end, it still comes down to what you want and what you are willing to live with.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yeah it's true. Halifax is still a great place to live, but the downturn is palpable. I don't think anybody is attempting to paint agendas, even though what you say is a fact. To me, I look for personal experience, what I see around me, and what I read as symptoms that there's something going on. Nobody can tell the whole story, and it's all far too complex to attach simple judgements.

In the end, it still comes down to what you want and what you are willing to live with.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree that there's a downturn, exactly. It's more mixed.

Some things in the past five years have become unequivocally worse, especially congestion and the cost of living/housing, and this creates a huge drag on quality of life. These problems have been exacerbated by our well-intended but inertia-riddled municipal government, which has a very hard time accomplishing anything on a less than generational timescale.

I'm not really sure public disorder or whatever has become worse. I'm old enough to remember the nighttime "swarmings" by roving bands of ne'er do wells. And the homelessness/visible addiction situation has markedly improved since its post-COVID peak, around 2022 or 2023. Maybe it's worse than five/six years ago (maybe), but it's better than three years ago.

And some things have become better, improving quality of life, and I think they're things that are a little less tangible and so easier to take for granted: greater vibrancy; more cosmopolitanism; greater variety of food, amenities, things to do, etc. I also feel like there's modestly more willingness for the powers that be to shell out on public infrastructure that's more than bare-bones. Streetscaping projects of the past few years are but one example. (That said, we still have a parsimonious/cheap approach to city-building, reflected in everything from recreation facilities to playgrounds to other civic assets. A small but telling example: the attractive custom signage in the central library had recently become chipped and damaged, and was replaced last year with big, cheap bristol boards. This is how we just gradually cheapen and degrade our public sphere--would it really have broken the bank to replace the signage as it was? This is a nationwide problem, but I think extra-pronounced in Atlantic Canada.)

Overall, it's terrible to say, but as someone who bought a house a decade ago, and is therefore locked into a pretty predictable and low monthly housing cost, I can enjoy the greater vibrancy and diversity of the city without being too badly hit by the negatives (mostly, the cost of housing). This is of course not the case for younger people, or newcomers, and that's a big problem for the future, unless we get a handle on it.

[Keith P.]

Part of the problem is that as a result of being the largest city in the Province, most of the govt supports (such as they are) to those with drug problems and mental health issues are here, thus creating their own demand for such individuals. Making matters worse is that those are largely band-aid solutions, not rehabilitative. The result is situations such as the former Holiday Inn/Doubletree at the bridge plaza and the Kent shelters in DT Dartmouth on the waterfront, which attract others of a similar inclination even if they do not reside there and make the surrounding areas quite unpleasant for those of us who are paying the bills and earning a living.

Perhaps if those were originally placed in facilities in Upper Sackville or the suburbs of Ecum Secum, those individuals would be more motivated to accept counseling and treatment for their issues and eventually a return to being a contributing member of society. As it is though, it seems we are on the hook forever to keep paying for the present situation to be perpetuated. I would guess those costs are unavoidable regardless of the approach chosen as some people are simply beyond help other than being wards of the state. The difference now is that we see them out and about every day, panhandling and being a detriment to those of us going about our day to day lives, unlike in the past. The housing shortage does not help, as the supply of typically older buildings that once were used to house these individuals within the community has largely evaporated. It is a knotty problem, as the old saying goes. I wish I had a solution.

[OldDartmouthMark]

No city is immune from these issues, as Moncton's recent struggles show:

More than 300 drug overdoses reported in Moncton, N.B., in less than two weeks

I suspect a shipment of bad/tainted/laced (however you want to say it) drugs are probably at the heart of this, but it could just as easily have happened here, and probably will. That Moncton could experience this indicates that this problem hasn't gone away, it's just a little less visible until something major like this happens.

I think we can pander about all day about whether this or that is bad, and each of us will have different experiences or different opinions, or even different standards. That's fine. My personal experience is that the interactions are much more aggressive and feel a little closer to becoming dangerous than they used to. People were complaining about panhandlers on SGR in the 1990s, but if you said sorry not today or whatever, they would just go away. Not so much today.

Of course people will have "yeah buts", like yeah but it's worse in this or that city, or it's worse than 10 years ago but better than 2 years ago or whatever. All good.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

No city is immune from these issues, as Moncton's recent struggles show:

More than 300 drug overdoses reported in Moncton, N.B., in less than two weeks

I suspect a shipment of bad/tainted/laced (however you want to say it) drugs are probably at the heart of this, but it could just as easily have happened here, and probably will. That Moncton could experience this indicates that this problem hasn't gone away, it's just a little less visible until something major like this happens.

I think we can pander about all day about whether this or that is bad, and each of us will have different experiences or different opinions, or even different standards. That's fine. My personal experience is that the interactions are much more aggressive and feel a little closer to becoming dangerous than they used to. People were complaining about panhandlers on SGR in the 1990s, but if you said sorry not today or whatever, they would just go away. Not so much today.

Of course people will have "yeah buts", like yeah but it's worse in this or that city, or it's worse than 10 years ago but better than 2 years ago or whatever. All good.

Moncton is interesting: I have family there, who live in one of the more upscale inner-city areas, and they have constant problems with petty theft vandalism, which is generally assumed to be perpertrated by people dealing with addicition or homelessness. Moncton's urban core seems to have bigger problems with addiction and crime. It's interesting in that it's the biggest, most booming city (relatively) in NB, but hasn't shed that rough around the edges quality.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Moncton is interesting: I have family there, who live in one of the more upscale inner-city areas, and they have constant problems with petty theft vandalism, which is generally assumed to be perpertrated by people dealing with addicition or homelessness. Moncton's urban core seems to have bigger problems with addiction and crime. It's interesting in that it's the biggest, most booming city (relatively) in NB, but hasn't shed that rough around the edges quality.

This must be a relatively new development then? A number of years ago, I had a coworker literally resign and move to Moncton to get away from the hustle and bustle of Halifax. He had past history there so it was comfortable to him, but I kept in touch after he moved and he told me how great it was to not have to deal with Halifax traffic (lol… that was long before it reached today’s level… not sure how he would have dealt with this), crime (he lived in Fairview which had some drug activity at the time, but not even a shadow of what’s happening now), etc.

Some years ago, but not all that long ago, Moncton used to be a centralized meeting place for us where we would get together with friends and family from other parts of NB. We would stay at one of the hotels downtown and walk everywhere, go to pubs, shops, restaurants, etc. I don’t ever recall having an issue with crime, or even seeing a person whacked out on drugs or begging in the streets. There were a few drunks every so often but none aggressive or violent.

So my impression of Moncton has long been one of it being a slower, more chill place than Halifax. If Monctonrad still posts here maybe he can chime in?

And to complete my point, Halifax had long felt like a safe place to me, but less-so now. I’m not trying to create some fantasy world that had no crime, unhappiness or dangerous people, but it absolutely felt like a better place to live. My subjective opinion, but I have been here a long time and can see the decline. I don’t know how to properly explain this to someone who hasn’t experienced it, but maybe look into the archives at photos of SGR and the old library property from the 1980s. You will likely run across pics of young people hanging out, eating fries from Bud The Spud, or whatever, in a safe environment. I experienced this, and it felt like the pics appear. We didn’t worry about getting mugged by someone needing a hit, or whatever. It was a different world, but in many ways, better. We all have our opinions, and this is mine. I could go on, but I am sure many of readers have already rolled their eyes and stopped reading.

It’s a different world in many ways, and history shows that bad and good times are often cyclical. If I compare my impression of today with photos of history, today feels like we are just a notch above photos I have seen of some of the more depressed times in our history (without the drug use), today looks more polished and less gritty generally, but lurking below the surface are some hard times. And even though some of us may be fortunate enough to have living accommodations, a great many of us do not, or are spending an insane portion of their income just to have a place to live. How can this not feel like a downturn?! The logic escapes me, TBH.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I think we can pander about all day about whether this or that is bad, and each of us will have different experiences or different opinions, or even different standards. That's fine. My personal experience is that the interactions are much more aggressive and feel a little closer to becoming dangerous than they used to. People were complaining about panhandlers on SGR in the 1990s, but if you said sorry not today or whatever, they would just go away. Not so much today.

Of course people will have "yeah buts", like yeah but it's worse in this or that city, or it's worse than 10 years ago but better than 2 years ago or whatever. All good.

The topic came to mind for me yesterday as I was sitting in traffic at a red light signal at the bottom of Nantucket waiting to cross the Macdonald. As usual the panhandlers were in the street working the lineup. Also as usual my windows were up and I refused to engage. I was looking away from where they were (having spotted a very strange vehicle next to me, an older Lexus driven by a young lady, suspension lowered, with curtains that were pulled back encircling the rear passenger compartment, with a miniature crystal chandelier back there, just bizarre) and eventually noticed a shadow that was not moving so I glanced over. There about an inch from my side window was a rather rough and scary-looking older woman with a face that showed history of a very rough life, staring at me, presumably trying to get me to notice her. This is the kind of “hygiene” thing I have zero tolerance for. I get that she is in a tough situation but this sort of thing needs attention from the authorities.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This must be a relatively new development then? A number of years ago, I had a coworker literally resign and move to Moncton to get away from the hustle and bustle of Halifax. He had past history there so it was comfortable to him, but I kept in touch after he moved and he told me how great it was to not have to deal with Halifax traffic (lol… that was long before it reached today’s level… not sure how he would have dealt with this), crime (he lived in Fairview which had some drug activity at the time, but not even a shadow of what’s happening now), etc.

Maybe it's newish? I don't, much of inner Moncton has Dartmouth north vibes (to me). In general, the area around Jones Lake is more upper middle class, but then the area above St. George Street, from Vaughn Harvey to Mountain Road, can feel somewhat down-at-heel, and the homeless population is definitely much larger than in the past. It's definitely become something residents talk a lot about; Moncton's population boom has been more suburban than urban, and the downtown, while not unhealthy, is definitely not firing on all cylinders.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

And to complete my point, Halifax had long felt like a safe place to me, but less-so now. I’m not trying to create some fantasy world that had no crime, unhappiness or dangerous people, but it absolutely felt like a better place to live. My subjective opinion, but I have been here a long time and can see the decline. I don’t know how to properly explain this to someone who hasn’t experienced it, but maybe look into the archives at photos of SGR and the old library property from the 1980s. You will likely run across pics of young people hanging out, eating fries from Bud The Spud, or whatever, in a safe environment. I experienced this, and it felt like the pics appear. We didn’t worry about getting mugged by someone needing a hit, or whatever. It was a different world, but in many ways, better. We all have our opinions, and this is mine. I could go on, but I am sure many of readers have already rolled their eyes and stopped reading.

I won't discount anyone's perceptions; all I can say is that objectively speaking, crime stats show pretty much every category of violent crime is lower than in the 80s and 90s, including robbery and assault. I'm sure there's more visible homelessness, and probably more visible drug use. Is there actually more assault or violence than in the 80s? I think if the stats are at all accurate, there's less.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I won't discount anyone's perceptions; all I can say is that objectively speaking, crime stats show pretty much every category of violent crime is lower than in the 80s and 90s, including robbery and assault. I'm sure there's more visible homelessness, and probably more visible drug use. Is there actually more assault or violence than in the 80s? I think if the stats are at all accurate, there's less.

Here’s typically where I get frustrated with the phenomenon of whipping out the stats to explain everything. See? There’s numbers! It’s objective!

I can only speak to my lived experience, but I don’t feel that I have lived a sheltered life. I’ve literally known people on both sides of the law (enforcement and criminal element - I made life choices to live on the legal side, get an education, and work hard, but I digress). Not sure how those stats were compiled and organized, but I will say that generally speaking a lot of crime that happened then was among those known to crime (not all, but a vast majority). People got involved in stuff, tried to screw over the wrong person, and bad stuff happened. On the other side, I think there was a lot more crime that didn’t make it into the stats, like domestics, racially motivated, homosexual bashing, etc., so it’s not all cut and dried, and certainly not objectively or subjectively explained by stats alone.

The point is, and I’ll shut up after this as you can spend all day telling me that what I experienced or my opinions aren’t valid or correct, that the average person didn’t tend to experience random aggression or interactions bordering on violence. The smaller stuff that didn’t get reported seems worse today. And when the larger reported stuff happens, it’s typically more severe with a higher degree of violence and anger, as though people don’t have that internal trigger to stop once you have defeated the person that they are assaulting. Even the general public seems to be carrying more anger and cynicism around with them. Maybe it’s just our times, as society has had probably the worst life situations to deal with since WWII. And depending upon when you’ve grown up, there will be moving goalposts on how you might view things. Online hate seems to have tainted opinions on what is acceptable behaviour, for example. It’s complex, of course.

Anyhow, this is wasting everybody’s time. We both know each other’s opinions. Time to move on, before Half-axed or somebody appears out of the shadows to bully whomever doesn’t agree with him or whatever.

Have a great day! 🙂

[Dmajackson]

GLOBAL NEWS - "Halifax tenant says building was partly demolished while she waited for tenancy ruling"

Not a good look for R C Jane and if the stated facts are true they should be issued a strong fine and maybe even criminal charges if personal property was damaged/destroyed. This is in relation to VILLAGE PLAZA - 3343 WESTERWALD STREET. The redevelopment is 9 Floors - 164 Units. Photo below is from a few months ago.


HalifaxDevelopments.ca (Photo by David Jackson)