[Saint John, NB] Lorneville | Spruce Lake Industrial Park Expansion | +1500 acres

[adamuptownsj]

Same conversation 15 years ago IIRC. I don't care what it burns, provided proper mitigation is in place, as long as it's running. 1050 MW! Right there!

[bingun]

The Save Lorneville folks have picked up on the EIA being submitted for the data centre. It is a huge document, as you can imagine. I will go through this when I have time and pick out anything interesting.

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb/Depa...ents/documents/eia-registration-1663.pdf

Subject to receipt of the necessary approvals, construction is anticipated to begin in 2026, with commercial operations expected to commence in Q2 2028.

Pending approvals, site preparation is expected to begin on the PDA in Q3 2026 and will include clearing and grubbing of vegetation, removal of topsoil, and levelling the site to a predetermined grade. Vegetation clearing will be scheduled outside the migratory bird breeding season (mid‑April to late August) wherever feasible. Existing vegetation within the PDA will be removed, with merchantable timber salvaged where possible, and the heavy organic root mat cleared and relocated to the site perimeter. Topsoil will be stockpiled for future reclamation. Grading may require excavation or fill depending on existing terrain; however, blasting is not anticipated. Excavated rock and overburden will be stockpiled separately for progressive restoration. If additional borrow material is required, it will be sourced from local permitted pits or quarries. Throughout site preparation, erosion and sediment controls—including stormwater management—will be installed and maintained to protect soils and prevent sedimentation.

The onsite power generation system is expected to operate continuously on a 24/7 basis to meet the data centre’s baseload electricity requirements. Under normal operating conditions, the generators will run year-round, with increased output anticipated during the colder months when overall power demand is typically higher. Operational profiles will be aligned with facility load requirements and grid support needs; however, unlike earlier conceptual scenarios, the generating units are now assumed to operate fulltime rather than intermittently. Maintenance activities will be scheduled during lower demand periods to ensure continuous availability and minimize downtime.

Day to day operation and maintenance will be provided by a staff of approximately 8-10 maintenance and operations technicians. Inspection and maintenance will be conducted on a regular schedule consistent with industry operating experience. System maintenance will be conducted during “off-peak” periods or “shoulder” months (i.e., September-November and March-May). With proper planning of work during these periods, the Project will have a very low forced outage rate. The outage duration is expected to be approximately 48 hours per year per turbine. The Project will be designed to operate with reliability and
resiliency

During operations, the data centre will function as a 24‑hour, year‑round digital infrastructure facility designed to house and operate information technology (IT) equipment, including servers, networking hardware, and data storage systems. The facility will provide continuous data processing, storage, and transmission services to support cloud computing, artificial intelligence, and high‑performance computing applications. The data centre will employ an estimated 210 on‑site operational and maintenance staff. Day‑to‑day activities will include system monitoring, preventive maintenance, equipment replacement, and security operations. Vehicular traffic during operations will be limited and generally associated with staff access, equipment servicing, and periodic deliveries.

The data centre halls will use a closed‑loop water‑based cooling system, significantly reducing overall water consumption compared to open‑loop or evaporative cooling designs. In a closed‑loop configuration, water circulates continuously within sealed piping and equipment, providing thermal exchange for server halls while minimizing withdrawals, losses, and potential environmental effects. The volume of cooling water required will be determined as part of the detailed design of the project and requirements will be negligible following the initial fill. It is estimated that the initial fill, which will be supplied from the Saint Saint John industrial water supply, will be approximately 3,500m3.

Approximately 755,187 t CO2e per year of direct GHG emissions are expected to be released annually during operation of the Project from the combustion of natural gas in the generators and boilers. This represents approximately 6.6% of New Brunswick’s 2023 GHG emissions (ECCC 2025). It is expected the Project will be required to report GHG emissions both provincially and federally during operation and comply with the GHG performance standards for electricity generation. The Project will have an impact on New Brunswick’s achievement of 2030 and 2050 GHG reduction targets that will need to be managed. A net zero by 2050 plan will be required for the Project to comply with provincial and federal GHG targets.

[sailor734]

CBC story on the project and the EIA this morning.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-data-centre-9.7167767

Sounds like the water concerns are a non starter which leaves the power plant emissions for the opponents to hang their hat on.

My first thought is that growth and development doesn't come without change and not all of it is going to be positive. This is one of those situations where a value judgement has to be made at to whether or not it's worth it.

One thing that does come to mind is that given NB Power's application for a gas plant along with Voltagrid's means the emissions for the data centre will be 400Mw of gas fired generation.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

CBC story on the project and the EIA this morning.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-data-centre-9.7167767

Sounds like the water concerns are a non starter which leaves the power plant emissions for the opponents to hang their hat on.

My first thought is that growth and development doesn't come without change and not all of it is going to be positive. This is one of those situations where a value judgement has to be made at to whether or not it's worth it.

One thing that does come to mind is that given NB Power's application for a gas plant along with Voltagrid's the emissions for the data centre will be 400Mw of gas fired generation.

It certainly makes the water usage-based opposition a moot point. The amount of water associated with the initial fill is negligible in comparison to other local industrial users. It won't stop people continuing to say it on social media though.

The change that hasn't been picked up on much in this article and that I quoted above, is that they intend to run their own generators as the primary power source rather than the grid.

In some ways, this could be a positive change as it puts less strain and reliance on the grid and instead shifts it to their own generation which helps combat reliability concerns many have.

However, it also means that they are not using more 'green' sources of power that the grid can provide like Nuclear, Wind, or Hydro and instead they will be outputting GHG's much more consistently, even if the grid sees vast improvement in the coming decade.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by bingun

It certainly makes the water usage-based opposition a moot point. The amount of water associated with the initial fill is negligible in comparison to other local industrial users. It won't stop people continuing to say it on social media though.

The change that hasn't been picked up on much in this article and that I quoted above, is that they intend to run their own generators as the primary power source rather than the grid.

In some ways, this could be a positive change as it puts less strain and reliance on the grid and instead shifts it to their own generation which helps combat reliability concerns many have.

However, it also means that they are not using more 'green' sources of power that the grid can provide like Nuclear, Wind, or Hydro and instead they will be outputting GHG's much more consistently, even if the grid sees vast improvement in the coming decade.

The AI Data Centre will require & use 390MW; 190MW continuously from it's on site VoltaGrid NG plant and 200MW from the grid (NBP), which, as previously stated, will be from Tantramar, so another NG plan.

I wouldn't say running their own generators as the primary source of power is accurate, whatsoever, as drawing up to 200MW from the grid (likely most of the time) would certainly represent a significant demand of the grid.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by paperplane

The AI Data Centre will require & use 390MW; 190MW continuously from it's on site VoltaGrid NG plant and 200MW from the grid (NBP), which, as previously stated, will be from Tantramar, so another NG plan.

I wouldn't say running their own generators as the primary source of power is accurate, whatsoever, as drawing up to 200MW from the grid (likely most of the time) would certainly represent a significant demand of the grid.

The power usage is going to depend on who the end customer of this data centre is and what they intend to use it for. If this is for training models, like ChatGPT, the power usage would be constant as it spends weeks and months crunching the numbers. However, there are other AI data centres that handle individual user queries, and these vary with demand depending on the time of day and day of the week, similar to residential power demand.

Even so, there will still be some variation in power demand, primarily due to the weather. From the quote I showed above, it seems power demand will be highest in winter, probably due to the low humidity and temperatures. How much it varies, I have no idea, but it would be interesting to know.

Also, I need to correct you: this data centre will not be primarily powered by the gas plant in Tantramar. That new power plant is a peaker plant designed to be used during periods of high demand or when other power sources aren't available. In theory, for most of the year, it should be dormant. The best comparison would be Coleson Cove. For most of the year, there is plenty of capacity, and the grid could be powered by Nuclear, Wind, Hydro, etc.

However, during periods of high demand, the gas plant may need to be brought online to power the data centre, and that is the controversial part. If that was the case, you are burning gas at the power plant and locally, all to power the data centre.

The question I want answered is whether, if we experience a really cold spell in the winter, the data centre is willing to temporarily reduce or eliminate its demand on the grid and rely solely on its own generation? If they were willing to do this, I would have far less concern with the power being supplied to them.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by bingun

The power usage is going to depend on who the end customer of this data centre is and what they intend to use it for. If this is for training models, like ChatGPT, the power usage would be constant as it spends weeks and months crunching the numbers. However, there are other AI data centres that handle individual user queries, and these vary with demand depending on the time of day and day of the week, similar to residential power demand.

Even so, there will still be some variation in power demand, primarily due to the weather. From the quote I showed above, it seems power demand will be highest in winter, probably due to the low humidity and temperatures. How much it varies, I have no idea, but it would be interesting to know.

Also, I need to correct you: this data centre will not be primarily powered by the gas plant in Tantramar. That new power plant is a peaker plant designed to be used during periods of high demand or when other power sources aren't available. In theory, for most of the year, it should be dormant. The best comparison would be Coleson Cove. For most of the year, there is plenty of capacity, and the grid could be powered by Nuclear, Wind, Hydro, etc.

However, during periods of high demand, the gas plant may need to be brought online to power the data centre, and that is the controversial part. If that was the case, you are burning gas at the power plant and locally, all to power the data centre.

The question I want answered is whether, if we experience a really cold spell in the winter, the data centre is willing to temporarily reduce or eliminate its demand on the grid and rely solely on its own generation? If they were willing to do this, I would have far less concern with the power being supplied to them.

Fair.

However, I fully expect Tantramar to eventually run at full capacity, or at least far more frequently than being proposed.

And I can't see the AI Data Centre being willing to run less during certain periods. It's all double speak to get things approved, then it'll change.

I have more reservations about how this will impact an NBP electricity bill; and somewhat less reservations about the water use, but feel that there'll still be more eater used than they purport.

As was said above/previously, it really isn't the "greatest" project for SJ and only 150-200 jobs for the sheer size of land and water/energy costs and likely downsides, it comes with risk.

I guess one of the bigger questions is who/what else is coming to the expanded Industrial Park/as a result of the first domino being the NG Data Centre...?

[adamuptownsj]

Are we just going to opt out of incredibly important projects because the job count upsets the Facebook set? It's not McKenna's call centers any more. That ship has sailed. We have to make every single play possible to draw serious industry of all kinds here.

NB stupidly handicapping our generation capacity by not running Belledune and Coleson Cove 24-7-365 is the problem. NB not fracking is the problem. NB not building a second reactor at Lepreau is the problem. NB not begging serious tidal energy players to figure out the bay is the problem. Industries requiring power is not the problem.

Cheap and plentiful electricity will be the single greatest determinator of economic success this century. Net-zero is a crippling self-harming scam that's like spitting into a whirlwind. We need power from every resource we can get our hands on.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Cheap and plentiful electricity will be the single greatest determinator of economic success this century. Net-zero is a crippling self-harming scam that's like spitting into a whirlwind. We need power from every resource we can get our hands on.

Agreed with your first sentence, but don’t agree net zero is a crippling self harming scam, lol. We should be importing a huuuge amount of solar panels from China for large scale grid infrastructure projects… and same with wind power. Combined with battery storage projects, we could massively increase the NB’s grid capacity with wind and solar alone.

I think I heard Holt wants to look at converting Coleson Cove to natural gas? Seems like a good idea.. as is building a second CANDU at Lepreau, of course!

[sailor734]

Hearing lots of radio ads hyping the datacentre......lots of spin...."1200 good paying jobs" and "98% reduction in harmful emissions" The jobs are obviously just during construction (although you could see some people taking that as permanent) but what about the emissions number?

98% less than what? Burning soft coal in an open pit?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Hearing lots of radio ads hyping the datacentre......lots of spin...."1200 good paying jobs" and "98% reduction in harmful emissions" The jobs are obviously just during construction (although you could see some people taking that as permanent) but what about the emissions number?

98% less than what? Burning soft coal in an open pit?

The ads are everywhere. On the buses, on signs, on the radio, on social media, on TV. They're certainly giving a boost to the local advertising sector if nothing else .

I believe the 98% refers to NOx or SOx reduction rather than carbon. They keep it nice and vague to confuse the masses, though.

[sailor734]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bakx-york-ai-data-centres-alberta-solomon-9.7222388

Article today on CBC regarding the rising opposition to data centres. Mostly centered on Alberta but the survey quoted surprised me with the percentage of people opposed across the country. (something like 70% +/- a couple of points depending on province or region.)

Another article regarding Datacentres in the US.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/erin-brockovich-ai-data-centres-website-9.7221109

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bakx-york-ai-data-centres-alberta-solomon-9.7222388

Article today on CBC regarding the rising opposition to data centres. Mostly centered on Alberta but the survey quoted surprised me with the percentage of people opposed across the country. (something like 70% +/- a couple of points depending on province or region.)

Another article regarding Datacentres in the US.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/erin-brockovich-ai-data-centres-website-9.7221109

I don't think we should read too much into the below stat; most of the general public is opposed to anything being built within a few blocks of their home that isn't another SFH. I hate it when they frame questions like this so biasedly. Any industry is probably 70%+ or higher when put like this.

New polling from Angus Reid shows 68 per cent of respondents would oppose a large AI data centre being built within a few blocks of their home, with rural Canadians slightly more resistant (73 per cent) compared to those living in cities. (67 per cent).

It is also interesting to see CBC list NB as having 191MW of data centres planned when the reality is 380MW? I know some of the power is off-grid, but this is just poor reporting. It would move NB to second place, though other projects elsewhere may be misreported as well.

There is definitely a steady stream of negative stories and information on social media regarding data centres, rightly or wrongly. In some ways, it reminds me of the fracking debate. You'd see videos of people's tap water coming out of the faucet brown or bubbling, or you'd hear about local earthquakes. While these things happened, they weren't as common or as severe as presented.

One of the issues I have with the local advertising for the project is that it seems focused on the $2B investment. Sure, that is a big number, but, to be frank, it's meaningless to the average person in the city. It could be $10B or $100B, but people need to understand what that kind of high-dollar investment results in.

If they want to get people on their side, they need to put more focus on employment opportunities, tax contributions to the municipality, or supply chain/supporting business opportunities. If you could tell people their property taxes would decrease after it's built, or that we could increase the road repair budget by 20%, I think people would be a lot more interested.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

I understand Volta Grid is a big part of this proposal for the data centre, but I still think people should be pushing for more wind, solar, and battery technology to be used to power this project and across the entire industrial park.

If the Save Lorneville campaign keeps devoting the entirety of their efforts on opposing the proposal entirely, instead of pushing for some considerations, or changes, they're going to end up wasting so many years of tireless efforts for absolutely nothing.

If they're concerned about their community becoming a less desirable place to live, they should at least try and get something from Vola Grid and Beacon AI in terms of investments into their community.

Moreover, If pollution is a concern, they should be pushing for major investments into green energy to power Spruce Lake Industrial Park, so that it could actually be possible for the natural gas generators to be truly backup solutions one day.

[paperplane]

SJ Industrial Parks GM Ian MacKinnon quits and joins Fundy Harbour Group as VP of Operations.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by paperplane

SJ Industrial Parks GM Ian MacKinnon quits and joins Fundy Harbour Group as VP of Operations.

Data centre on the waterfront?

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Data centre on the waterfront?

I hear Brunswick square has room.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by paperplane

SJ Industrial Parks GM Ian MacKinnon quits and joins Fundy Harbour Group as VP of Operations.

Yes, I also saw that. I am sure the generous compensation they offered was hard to decline.

I guess from the perspective of the Industrial Park, his work is mostly done. He secured the rezoning with the city, and the data centre project is now with the province for approval, rather than his team.

I am still hoping to see some news of other prospective uses for the land outside of the data centre. Nothing recent on the value-add food front, but maybe something to follow after Americold's launch?