Post some pictures of your city! II

[Surrealplaces]

[Nite]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Thanks for the info Nite - at least they're not building right on top of those buildings, it's these type of buildings what gives Yonge Street it's unique character and the contrast with the surrounding towers is eye candy. If it was all towers it really wouldn't be that special anymore.

All the old-timey buildings along this section of Yonge street have historical preservation and can not be demolished, that's why many of the towers along Yonge look like 10 St. Mary.

[ScreamingViking]

Nice pics zoomer.

Another of Hamilton from the harbour (publicly accessible parts are to the right of this one; it doesn't seem all that current either):

Source

[Docere]

Photos from my visit to the Toronto Star newsroom for Doors Open Toronto yesterday.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by Nite

All the old-timey buildings along this section of Yonge street have historical preservation and can not be demolished, that's why many of the towers along Yonge look like 10 St. Mary.

Excellent!

and thanks ScreamingViking. I never did end up making it to Hamilton, next time, lol. I actually was checking it out on my phone on a Friday night to go the next day, but it was a tad confusing as I was tired, quite different pricing, trip lengths, GO Train or VIA, Aldershot station, yadda yadda. So I said I'd leave it to the morning but I think then were was talk about warming weather and potential thundershowers and a few days later it got into the high 20's (not ideal for hiking around Hamilton and the escarpment).

Docere - cool pictures! I'm thinking for the next trip to TO to move it to the end of May instead of the middle because I keep missing out on stuff like Doors Open and still some things aren't fully open yet or the foliage (especially this year) is still a bit bare in spots. I like to visit a city and its peak beauty, because why not? I still find it strange how a mega city like Toronto where the climate isn't that bad still has a 'start' to the tourist/summer season. I think I mentioned before about the Toronto Islands basically being shut down until the end of May, and most patios weren't open or set up yet and even when I went to Casa Loma in the middle of May the patio/courtyard facing the city wasn't open yet.. I mean what in the hell are they waiting for?

Another thought that occurs to me is the balance between small yet good urbanist cities (Victoria and Halifax are the first that come to mind in this size range) and mega cities. I love Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver for the true BIG city feel, especially Toronto which is in it's own stratosphere. Yet with that comes inevitable big city limitations around transportation, maintenance and upkeep of the public realm, the sheer amount of land required to keep a city that size going - wide rail paths, generating/power stations, streetcar/subway maintenance yards, etc, etc. For the most part you can avoid those but in a lot of places you're walking by some dead zones because of this. Ok, you can get professional sports and more big concerts and theatre in large cities - true. But I've found my favourite plays or concerts are in more intimate venues and who can afford to go to a major sporting event nowadays? Although to be fair, even though I'm not a baseball fan I did go to a Blue Jays game last year for a $20 standing/roaming ticket, great value.

Ok, you have these venues, but the things is in order to be successful and draw in crowds it has to appeal to a broad spectrum and it ends up feeling a bit generic, corporate, mass appeal. Looking at the lines outside of places it was mainly 40 to 80 year old white folks - now no shade there as I happen to fall in that group, lol. And that's probably fine for a lot of folks but I've always been bored by popular culture. I really want to check out the great theatres in Toronto, even just to tour them, but the few days a month they were open for public tours didn't coincide with my visit. And the shows that were playing, well I wasn't going to pay good money to see a show on Neil Diamond, Fiddler on the Roof in Yiddish, Dog Man The Musical.. As for a music I even considered Herb Albert just to say I saw him alive - the guy is 91 years old. One I was border line on was an African cello player, that might have been good.

And a lot of these great venues sit empty most days of the month! They must have great corporate sponsorship to keep them all afloat. Why can't there be weekly paid tours for all of these places if it covers the cost of doing the tours? Better yet, is there a way to open these venues to be used more often? Here's a weird idea, I'd love to just go into one of them and chill from the outside noise for 30 minutes or an hour. Think of it as an inside park or a library. You could read a book, look at your phone, yadda yadda. I'd pay $10 for that no problem. I mean they have some staff on site anyways. Now imagine if they operated as a small coffee shop/cafe where they had a designated section you could bring food/drinks to consume. I know lots of logistics/existing seats/cleaning things to consider. Anyways, just some random thoughts, next post back to pics.

[zoomer]

Day 2, May 16th started off cloudy after overnight rain. Staying near Yonge and Bloor meant I was usually walking down Yonge, thus the many Yonge shots. I followed the advice which was shared in the Canadian Holiday thread, which was to walk from downtown to the Beaches along Queen Street E. While I did take the streetcar back to Yonge the rest was walking and my heaviest walking day. 38,000 steps for 29 km. I don't know but I have the need to truly walk to explore and understand a city and even then I'm pretty much staying on the main routes and really have barely touched the surface of Toronto. For the week I averaged 29,000 steps per day.



Yonge at Gerrard - Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Sankofa Square - Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

[IMG]

60 Queen St E - Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr[/IMG]

I would say that stretch a couple block to the east of Yonge until The Beaches were my least favourite neighbourhood thus far. To be fair it didn't help that the weather was grey and cool while walking that part, but it felt a bit bleak, with a lot of gaps and infrastructure sites along the way and the main streets while interesting in spots weren't ones you'd want to linger and wander around for pleasure. I didn't really go off the main strip to explore the residential neighbourhoods however, which appeared pretty good. Actually most Toronto neighbourhoods appear to be quite good to excellent. So yah, I don't have a lot of pics along this stretch as not a lot was popping out to me and to be fair my feet were starting to hurt at some point!



Good Neighbour - Leslieville - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Ocha’s - Leslieville - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



B & B Fish and Chips - Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Leslieville Mural - Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

I realize know that I should have continued along Queen St E further before cutting down to the beach, but I wanted to check out Woodbine Park first, but that meant going through some parking lots, past an electronic music festival and to the bleakest part of the beach eventually so not a great introduction. It was cloudy for the first ten minutes or so, the trees were still fairly bare in this area, not a lot of people, so not good conditions for a first impression.



Woodbine Beach - Toronto- May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Woodbine Beach - Toronto- May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Woodbine Beach - Toronto- May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Woodbine Beach - Toronto- May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

Now the residential area looked nice as promised in the Canadian Holiday thread, and better in terms of 'feel' as some folks commented it was a bit waspy. But for the few blocks I was on there seemed to be more families in their yard, out and about walking the streets than I saw in many neighbourhoods and more families. I turned up Leuty Ave and took a picture of this treet. Some guy in his SUV across the street rolled down his window (and I was expecting some question about why I was taking a pic) and said "can you believe that tree was planted in 1930!"

This tree:



15 Leuty Avenue, Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



49 to 55 Leuty Avenue - Toronto - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

And I have to say this area felt better and more connected to the beach which well of course it is. More foliage as well and more SFH which makes it a lot easier to take photos to be honest. I don't have a lot of residential home photos as due to the height of most Toronto homes I really need to use a wider angle lens (next time I'll bring one) plus with row houses its hard to pick out what to focus on. Quite often I'd go down a street and think this is a really nice street with solid good brick houses, landscaping and nice tree cover. But when you look closer, a lot of the houses are the same, not ones stands out (especially for homes built after 1930's or so). It's like really high quality urban sprawl, lol. I think I'll have to consider how to better capture these streets to show their beauty, probably a wider streetscape view, although it's made me appreciate the every house is different hodge podge within much of Victoria.

And this is why I've been to Toronto three years in a row, because I've barely scratched the surface and same here. Next time I really need to explore off the main streets more. Answering a question from Nite - How far north on Yonge did you walk? . I only went a handful this trip, basically Yorkville. A previous trip I walked up to Yonge-St. Clair but took the subway up to Midtown. So yes, I need to further explore up Yonge and I still haven't checked out Rosedale.

Ok, back up to The Beaches strip on Queen Street E - a nice area you wouldn't mind hanging around for sure, but I see what others commented on regarding the food choices. Nothing stood out or really appealed to me or made met think "I have to go there!" I would say overall that's something Toronto needs more of, but I get why it doesn't exist. For example along Yonge street and other strips a lot of the food is take away, not a lot of space to sit or feel comfortable for a while. They don't have the space, they need quick transactions and volume. And while there are restaurants of course you can sit down at, not a lot of have great street appeal. More so in the quiter neighbourhoods, but of course this is just one perspective from an outsider who truly doesn't know the Toronto restaurant scene. I settled on what appears to be a small local chain, which the very friendly owner told me had been open just a couple months. I love banh mi, and after three failed banh mi meals last time in Toronto I have to say this was pretty good (but not the best yet..). They use beet juice to make the bun red, not really sure why, and despite that colour the bun was a proper, crispy on the outside and soft otherwise.



Banh Mi Journey - 2383 Queen St E - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

Then despite being over 30,000 steps at that point, I was close enough to the water treatment plant that I had to check it out. Again, because of it's wide scale it's really hard to capture it all properly. It's cool, something you should check out if you're in the area, should eventually check out if you're in Toronto, but not a must see first few times I would say. If you could go in for a tour or something, that would be cool, but of course not much to see or do once you've seen the buildings. It was busy with several wedding photos going on and even some down at this tiny beach. It seemed quite strange that people would go to this little beach as a photo location as it's not much, but after I took a few photos I can see that having an open lake that stretches into the horizon would look pretty cool if you were getting some photos by the buildings anyways.



R. C. Harris Water Treatment Plant - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



R. C. Harris Water Treatment Plant - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Beach at R. C. Harris Water Treatment Plant - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Beach at R. C. Harris Water Treatment Plant - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr



Beach at R. C. Harris Water Treatment Plant - May 16, 2026 by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr

That was day 2, a bit underwhelming, but it only got better from here!

[SignalHillHiker]

A few recently-posted drone shots.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by zoomer

I followed the advice which was shared in the Canadian Holiday thread, which was to walk from downtown to the Beaches along Queen Street E. While I did take the streetcar back to Yonge the rest was walking and my heaviest walking day. 38,000 steps for 29 km. I don't know but I have the need to truly walk to explore and understand a city and even then I'm pretty much staying on the main routes and really have barely touched the surface of Toronto. For the week I averaged 29,000 steps per day.

...

I would say that stretch a couple block to the east of Yonge until The Beaches were my least favourite neighbourhood thus far. To be fair it didn't help that the weather was grey and cool while walking that part, but it felt a bit bleak, with a lot of gaps and infrastructure sites along the way and the main streets while interesting in spots weren't ones you'd want to linger and wander around for pleasure.

There is a decently long stretch of Queen St E that I would not describe as a destination - it serves the local community well but falls short on the charm factor. Probably from about Leslie to Woodbine. The section going east toward the Don River can be a bit sketchy but I still find it interesting. Riverside though is a good solid stretch and the side streets, for the most part, are great. De Grassi St is around there which I think was featured only very early on in the TV series but still cool to walk down. Curious which parts you didn't like?

There were probably a lot of people giving advice, but I did mention to take the streetcar to Woodbine and walk east to Kew Gardens and down to the lake from there. I mentioned this knowing the gappy stretch could be a bit tiring to walk through. Did you walk by Kew Gardens along Queen though? I rarely go through Woodbine Park - it's pretty crazy during the summer though and can have a strong party vibe. It looks good in your photos.

You mentioned some streets like Yonge not having good street appeal for restaurants - this is true. Yonge is a weird street to me. Its identity feels very confusing right now. It used to just be trashy and flashy - before weed stores became ubiquitous throughout the city, you'd find that there (and Kensington). Strip clubs, — and — shops - all that risque stuff would be on Yonge. Now people buy that online. So it's definitely in transition. There is also too much space given to cars and the sidewalks are too narrow. People avoid Yonge (me included). There are plans to change that though and make it more pedestrian friendly. Yonge's character changes quite dramatically north of Bloor. But yes, the patio culture is strong on many other streets in the city: Queen W, College, Danforth, Ossington and several more. It changes but my favourites are probably Little Italy along College and Ossington.

I guess I agree about RC Harris, but if one likes taking pics of architecture, I find it fantasitc. I find the gold/yellow of the buildings with the green hills and the blue water/sky a nice visual combination (you capture a bit of that in your second photo of it).

Looking forward to seeing your other adventures.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by zoomer

I would say that stretch a couple block to the east of Yonge until The Beaches were my least favourite neighbourhood thus far. To be fair it didn't help that the weather was grey and cool while walking that part, but it felt a bit bleak, with a lot of gaps and infrastructure sites along the way and the main streets while interesting in spots weren't ones you'd want to linger and wander around for pleasure. I didn't really go off the main strip to explore the residential neighbourhoods however, which appeared pretty good.

That's an interesting observation. I would say that the urban "vibe" is more consistent going west. Everything pretty much flows into each other. Queen West flows right into Parkdale at the Gladstone, and Parkdale smoothly flows into the lengthy north-south Roncesvalles strip. Along the way it passes the Ossington strip which flows into Dundas/Little Portugal. Along College and Dundas, Chinatown-Kensington flows seamlessly to Little Italy and then Little Portugal, and north of College you flow seamlessly into the Annex strip.

The east has more "gaps." You have a few hubs of activity like the Danforth-Greektown strip and parts of Riverdale. But the Beaches for example is kind of a stand-alone enclave. There are relatively dead zones that are pretty much absent in the west.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by Docere

That's an interesting observation. I would say that the urban "vibe" is more consistent going west. Everything pretty much flows into each other. Queen West flows right into Parkdale at the Gladstone, and Parkdale smoothly flows into the lengthy north-south Roncesvalles strip. Along the way it passes the Ossington strip which flows into Dundas/Little Portugal. Along College and Dundas, Chinatown-Kensington flows seamlessly to Little Italy and then Little Portugal, and north of College you flow seamlessly into the Annex strip.

The east has more "gaps." You have a few hubs of activity like the Danforth-Greektown strip and parts of Riverdale. But the Beaches for example is kind of a stand-alone enclave. There are relatively dead zones that are pretty much absent in the west.

100% this, exactly how it felt. Another day I was walking on the west side and yes, one neighbourhood flowed perfectly to the next to the next to the next with great residential/park transitions between. Excellent.

[someone123]

The dead zones aren't necessarily that common in large Asian or European cities, like Paris. In Toronto and Montreal I think they have more to do with history and the scope of projects undertaken during the urban renewal phase of the 50s-70s, projects like the Gardiner Expressway. Victoria doesn't really have anything major from this era. Vancouver has the more modest Georgia Viaduct. Most of those projects were at best semi-successful but they sometimes add an urban heft that you wouldn't get otherwise.

Years ago Toronto and Montreal felt like they were approximately at the same level with Toronto having the bigger corporate stuff and Montreal having more vibrant historic neighbourhoods, but now in my view there are really 3 tiers, Toronto -> Montreal -> Vancouver, maybe even with Montreal -> Vancouver being closer than Toronto -> Montreal. I find Vancouver is qualitatively different from Toronto in having a more limited mix of things like major stores, a wider mix of speciality places, and more big-city infrastructure like commuter rail and full-sized subways with complex underground hub stations. There's also been a widespread subtle growth of fine-grained improvements and shops around smaller streets in Toronto. When I go back I often find that some stretch of previously semi-rundown rowhouses is now a mix of attractive businesses and condos.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by shappy

There is a decently long stretch of Queen St E that I would not describe as a destination - it serves the local community well but falls short on the charm factor. Probably from about Leslie to Woodbine. The section going east toward the Don River can be a bit sketchy but I still find it interesting. Riverside though is a good solid stretch and the side streets, for the most part, are great. De Grassi St is around there which I think was featured only very early on in the TV series but still cool to walk down. Curious which parts you didn't like?

There were probably a lot of people giving advice, but I did mention to take the streetcar to Woodbine and walk east to Kew Gardens and down to the lake from there. I mentioned this knowing the gappy stretch could be a bit tiring to walk through. Did you walk by Kew Gardens along Queen though? I rarely go through Woodbine Park - it's pretty crazy during the summer though and can have a strong party vibe. It looks good in your photos.

You mentioned some streets like Yonge not having good street appeal for restaurants - this is true. Yonge is a weird street to me. Its identity feels very confusing right now. It used to just be trashy and flashy - before weed stores became ubiquitous throughout the city, you'd find that there (and Kensington). Strip clubs, — and — shops - all that risque stuff would be on Yonge. Now people buy that online. So it's definitely in transition. There is also too much space given to cars and the sidewalks are too narrow. People avoid Yonge (me included). There are plans to change that though and make it more pedestrian friendly. Yonge's character changes quite dramatically north of Bloor. But yes, the patio culture is strong on many other streets in the city: Queen W, College, Danforth, Ossington and several more. It changes but my favourites are probably Little Italy along College and Ossington.

I guess I agree about RC Harris, but if one likes taking pics of architecture, I find it fantasitc. I find the gold/yellow of the buildings with the green hills and the blue water/sky a nice visual combination (you capture a bit of that in your second photo of it).

Looking forward to seeing your other adventures.

Yah, in retrospect I should have taken the streetcar as you stated above, but I really believe in first walking an area to get a true and fair evaluation. Don't ask me why, it's a bit ridiculous, but I like to have a better sense of a city than drive by impressions, which even on foot would probably take months to fully appreciate. Heck, I've lived in Victoria since 1984 and I've probably only really seen 25% of the streets in the core area!

It's funny you mention Yonge street being in transition as I just watched this video the other night, posted two weeks ago. Seems like Yonge is always in transition.

• Video Link

"I did mention to take the streetcar to Woodbine and walk east to Kew Gardens and down to the lake from there." Yes, you were bang on, even if walking this was the way to the beach. I did walk up pretty much the whole length of Queen St E to the water treatment plant, so I passed by the old library (beautiful) and the entrance to Kew Gardens. There was a nice pavilion about 100 metres down from the road in the park but there looks to be a couple homeless folks camped out there and I was heading down the street anyways.

"Riverside though is a good solid stretch and the side streets, for the most part, are great. De Grassi St is around there which I think was featured only very early on in the TV series but still cool to walk down. Curious which parts you didn't like?"

Trying to use Google Street view to help me with this, and holy F - do they hate Toronto? The latest street view of this area is 2021?! Ok, so using Apple Maps, it falls off for me at George Street, which is pretty much right away. The pedestrian traffic is significantly reduced and as I was walking on the left hand side of the road you go through that block long overhead construction tunnel for the block of George to Sherbourne. Felt a bit sketchy and only two people passed me but beside me a car had been pulled over by two cop cars, the trunk was open with a couple gym bags on the ground and the cops were talking about "2 handguns" as they had the guy handcuffed in the back of the car. I mean there was clearly no public danger but I did consider that there was no easy quick way out of this block long 'tunnel' other than trying to scramble though the supporting scaffolding, lol. Then at the very next block in front of some weed/mushroom store they had another guy in cuffs and an agitated guy (store employee?) yelling at the cop "check the camera, check the camera!" I assume he stole something, I dunno. It didn't feel dangerous to be fair, but the area is sketchy. Once you go over the bridge the area improved, a mix of modern mid-rise and older buildings but the street vibe was hit or miss. To be honest if the weather wasn't cloudy then it would have left a better impression, but then again it's not really a destination, but a good hub for the neighbourhood. Same with Leslieville, although it does have some nice heritage storefronts with great signage.

So it wasn't bad, just not somewhere I would go again. I might give the Beaches another shot on a sunny day and check out residential area more, there seemed to be some good hilly areas to the north, would also better determine a location ahead of tiime for a good lunch or dinner. Anyways, day 3 was an unexpected highlight, still editing some of those pics, lol.

[zoomer]

Originally Posted by someone123

The dead zones aren't necessarily that common in large Asian or European cities, like Paris. In Toronto and Montreal I think they have more to do with history and the scope of projects undertaken during the urban renewal phase of the 50s-70s, projects like the Gardiner Expressway. Victoria doesn't really have anything major from this era. Vancouver has the more modest Georgia Viaduct. Most of those projects were at best semi-successful but they sometimes add an urban heft that you wouldn't get otherwise.

Years ago Toronto and Montreal felt like they were approximately at the same level with Toronto having the bigger corporate stuff and Montreal having more vibrant historic neighbourhoods, but now in my view there are really 3 tiers, Toronto -> Montreal -> Vancouver, maybe even with Montreal -> Vancouver being closer than Toronto -> Montreal. I find Vancouver is qualitatively different from Toronto in having a more limited mix of things like major stores, a wider mix of speciality places, and more big-city infrastructure like commuter rail and full-sized subways with complex underground hub stations. There's also been a widespread subtle growth of fine-grained improvements and shops around smaller streets in Toronto. When I go back I often find that some stretch of previously semi-rundown rowhouses is now a mix of attractive businesses and condos.

Yes, good observations. And Victoria is too small to have those big infrastructure components or major urban redevelopment projects that resulted in block long monster developments. Which is probably why I really don't enjoy walking by what's required in big cities (the overpasses, underpasses, by power stations, transit storage yards, yadda yadda). They can be interesting if designed right, but often kill the vibe if not. I'm wondering about the retail mix of Toronto though, as in most stores I would never go in, at least in the downtown core. I think most of the everyday type of stores are located in shopping centres or people are ordering them online. Now again we're talking about two different worlds here with a megacity and a small city, but I've noticed that downtown Victoria has more every day stuff and way more female oriented stores, I know, whatever that means. Part of that is the tourist influence type of stores, but there are lots of book stores, card and stationary stores, stores selling cutesy little household ornaments/purse/objects, linen stores, wool and craft stores, jewellery stores, fancy little tea supply stores, plus furniture, clothing, etc etc. It would be interesting to do a retail analysis of downtown Toronto to see what its composed of.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Now again we're talking about two different worlds here with a megacity and a small city, but I've noticed that downtown Victoria has more every day stuff and way more female oriented stores, I know, whatever that means. Part of that is the tourist influence type of stores, but there are lots of book stores, card and stationary stores, stores selling cutesy little household ornaments/purse/objects, linen stores, wool and craft stores, jewellery stores, fancy little tea supply stores, plus furniture, clothing, etc etc. It would be interesting to do a retail analysis of downtown Toronto to see what its composed of.

Well, I think a big part of it is that downtown Toronto is a specialized business district while downtown Victoria is sort of a scaled down version of all of the old Toronto city with only very small areas that are CBD-like. Another factor is that Victoria is more touristy and less business oriented, but you can find more of that stuff still in an urban format farther out in Toronto. And you can go quite far from downtown Toronto to say Yonge-Eglinton and still be in a very busy area, or find little boutique strips like Bayview Ave. Yorkville used to have a bit more of that folksy boutique feel a long time ago.

Victoria and Halifax are about the same size as far as metropolitan areas go but they're actually quite different in this respect. Halifax also has multi-block 60s megaprojects (not as big as Montreal's, but still large), used to have a downtown freeway interchange, has a CBD-like area that's pretty much just offices, etc. Then if you want the mom and pop shops you are headed more to an area in say the North End or Dartmouth. I find sometimes people don't expect this and think they've "visited downtown" or "the city" when they were in a business part of downtown and on the waterfront, which is fine but just a part of how a local would experience the city. Victoria is much closer to the model of one blob of mixed use stuff downtown that you can easily walk around.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by someone123

The dead zones aren't necessarily that common in large Asian or European cities, like Paris. In Toronto and Montreal I think they have more to do with history and the scope of projects undertaken during the urban renewal phase of the 50s-70s, projects like the Gardiner Expressway. Victoria doesn't really have anything major from this era. Vancouver has the more modest Georgia Viaduct. Most of those projects were at best semi-successful but they sometimes add an urban heft that you wouldn't get otherwise.

Years ago Toronto and Montreal felt like they were approximately at the same level with Toronto having the bigger corporate stuff and Montreal having more vibrant historic neighbourhoods, but now in my view there are really 3 tiers, Toronto -> Montreal -> Vancouver, maybe even with Montreal -> Vancouver being closer than Toronto -> Montreal. I find Vancouver is qualitatively different from Toronto in having a more limited mix of things like major stores, a wider mix of speciality places, and more big-city infrastructure like commuter rail and full-sized subways with complex underground hub stations. There's also been a widespread subtle growth of fine-grained improvements and shops around smaller streets in Toronto. When I go back I often find that some stretch of previously semi-rundown rowhouses is now a mix of attractive businesses and condos.

Re: the (relative) "dead zones", the Don River/Don Valley at one time did resemble a hurdle of sorts to urban development, while going west the transition from downtown to residential neighbourhoods is smoother. The downtown east was also more subject to urban renewal in the 50/60s.

As I said above, east of the Don has a few hubs of activity. You have an interconnected Riverdale (including the Danforth strip until Pape, as well as I guess South Riverdale/Riverside/Leslieville). But the Beaches, a very pleasant enclave, doesn't feel like it's part of a broader band of neighbourhoods.

An old blog post I wrote years ago on the east/west difference:

https://southofbloorstreet.blogspot.com/2015/09/why-east-end-developed-later-than-west.html

The other thing I would add is that the west end was the more "ethnic" area while the east was very "Anglo Canadian." The Italian and Portuguese communities I think gave College and Dundas streets a vibrancy that were more amenable to later gentrification.

[Docere]

Re: Toronto and Victoria, aren't we comparing pumpkins and pomegranates here when it comes to scale?

[zoomer]

/\ yes, absolutely as I've noted above and it's not really about putting them side by side, but in making observations one will of course default to what they know best. I think they both offer excellent urban living environments that are of course different and each have their own pros and cons. I think it's something interesting to consider though as people are leaving the bigger cities for smaller (well at least since Covid); what are the differences and what type of lifestyle can you expect moving from small to large and vice versa. The big advantage Toronto has over every other Canadian city (and to a lesser degree over Montreal) is the large number of good neighbourhoods that are truly urban/dense.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by someone123

The dead zones aren't necessarily that common in large Asian or European cities, like Paris.

Perhaps goes without saying, but for European cities basically any that experienced a good amount of bombing during WWII: London, Berlin, Warsaw, etc. But yes, certainly less common than in NA.

Originally Posted by zoomer

Trying to use Google Street view to help me with this, and holy F - do they hate Toronto? The latest street view of this area is 2021?! Ok, so using Apple Maps, it falls off for me at George Street, which is pretty much right away. The pedestrian traffic is significantly reduced and as I was walking on the left hand side of the road you go through that block long overhead construction tunnel for the block of George to Sherbourne. Felt a bit sketchy and only two people passed me but beside me a car had been pulled over by two cop cars, the trunk was open with a couple gym bags on the ground and the cops were talking about "2 handguns" as they had the guy handcuffed in the back of the car. I mean there was clearly no public danger but I did consider that there was no easy quick way out of this block long 'tunnel' other than trying to scramble though the supporting scaffolding, lol. Then at the very next block in front of some weed/mushroom store they had another guy in cuffs and an agitated guy (store employee?) yelling at the cop "check the camera, check the camera!" I assume he stole something, I dunno. It didn't feel dangerous to be fair, but the area is sketchy. Once you go over the bridge the area improved, a mix of modern mid-rise and older buildings but the street vibe was hit or miss. To be honest if the weather wasn't cloudy then it would have left a better impression, but then again it's not really a destination, but a good hub for the neighbourhood. Same with Leslieville, although it does have some nice heritage storefronts with great signage.

So it wasn't bad, just not somewhere I would go again. I might give the Beaches another shot on a sunny day and check out residential area more, there seemed to be some good hilly areas to the north, would also better determine a location ahead of tiime for a good lunch or dinner.

In Toronto, the east end is newer, less densely populated than the west end - including retail density. It has a slower pace, closer to nature generally speaking, etc. Last time I was in Vancouver, I went out with local friends to a restaurant on W 4th (forget where exactly), but it really reminded me of the Beaches with Kitsilano to the north. I remember the vibe was very similar.

Another Vancouver comparison if I may, that stretch of Queen from George to say Sumach (Moss Park, Trefann Court) is equivalent to our DTES. It's a far cry but it's definitely sketchy. So I'm not surprised you witnessed some interesting characters. After that is Corktown which has some cute 1870s rowhouse cottages and a few businesses sprinkled throughout - again, not a destination per se but there are a number of small and charming tight Victorian streets if you're into that. Just beyond the bridge is Riverside which I like quite a bit - there is a good amount to explore there and some new construction filling in the holes. The best parts are east of Broadview. East Chinatown starting at Gerrard and Broadview may be worth a look. You might like Danforth/Greektown as well. Riverdale is a great streetcar suburb with nice Edwardian housing and little retail pockets.

East Chinatown
https://maps.app.goo.gl/43QBprYBcEaVUhBL7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tnYKcq4LWjxigFZJ8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/MhYdrngkCXpUrMNo9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/oU956BhAETnzKQ87A

Danforth/Greektown (strong patio culture)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pm4jER8fYM6TLP9T6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/F6AypVsQyoQdnp3e6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xBnFd76Cu5ksroZYA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ma6LvsC4dh3CmYmh8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/op6cgXdBBnbXcvqU9

Riverdale
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VQays3MYYky1Nwfm8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/c3CyipcRUWxT725D6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ka191oDaxfWtstv27
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YiYScdHyKoqawcaY6

Originally Posted by zoomer

Part of that is the tourist influence type of stores, but there are lots of book stores, card and stationary stores, stores selling cutesy little household ornaments/purse/objects, linen stores, wool and craft stores, jewellery stores, fancy little tea supply stores, plus furniture, clothing, etc etc. It would be interesting to do a retail analysis of downtown Toronto to see what its composed of.

Yes, as mentioned above, you won't find a lot of this in the downtown core but more on Queen W, etc. Someone123 mentioned this about Halifax, and the same is very true for Toronto. Visitors come to downtown and many are underwhelmed with the lack of character and charm. The downtown area is not where Toronto shines, it's in the adjacent and further out central areas.

[someone123]

Sometimes when an area gets too high-end it becomes overrun with chain stores and gets less interesting. This has happened to parts of Queen W. I used to like going to Active Surplus for example but it's long gone now and the place is surrounded by chain clothing stores. It's just how it goes with larger cities. And a lot of famous areas in particular whether you're on Oxford St, along the Champs-Élysées, or in Ginza have a lot of overlap. Robson or Alberni are mini versions with some overlap in Vancouver. I wonder if we are going to see more and more of this standardization that makes travel a bit less interesting.

Queen W is very similar to Spring Garden Rd in Halifax which has become more like a shopping mall, while the mom and pop shops have migrated out to Agricola, Gottingen, Portland St, etc. Quinpool Rd and Dutch Village Rd have more ethnic places. Quinpool Rd almost looks like it could be Toronto in parts.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Excellent!
Docere - cool pictures! I'm thinking for the next trip to TO to move it to the end of May instead of the middle because I keep missing out on stuff like Doors Open and still some things aren't fully open yet or the foliage (especially this year) is still a bit bare in spots. I like to visit a city and its peak beauty, because why not? I still find it strange how a mega city like Toronto where the climate isn't that bad still has a 'start' to the tourist/summer season. I think I mentioned before about the Toronto Islands basically being shut down until the end of May, and most patios weren't open or set up yet and even when I went to Casa Loma in the middle of May the patio/courtyard facing the city wasn't open yet.. I mean what in the hell are they waiting for?

Yeah, May in Toronto can definitely be hit or miss weather-wise (seems to be more miss of late). Spring can take frustratingly long to get going in earnest. June has always been my favourite month there - lush & green, warm but still fresh, and the city really springs to life (lots of festivals, etc). It's sort of like the equivalent of May in Vancouver, but obviously warmer.

If July & August are too hot for you, September (still summery, but dryer & less humid) or October (autumn colours starting, more refreshing weather) are also great times to visit.

I enjoyed your pictures btw!

Originally Posted by zoomer

Ok, you have these venues, but the things is in order to be successful and draw in crowds it has to appeal to a broad spectrum and it ends up feeling a bit generic, corporate, mass appeal.

On the flip side, only larger cities have enough of a critical mass to support multiple different subcultures, smaller scenes, esoteric interests, and so on that simply don't exist in smaller cities. This is one of the best things about Toronto in particular - that no matter how niche whatever you're into, a community exists for it.