Phoenix Development News (4)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

And I live right by the Cirlce K. We have luxury apartments all around the circle K. I mean the ASU dorms are literally across the street. I don’t necessarily feel in danger, the good thing is there are plenty of people around, heck you can hit the emergency button at the dorms. But it’s just plainly sad to see. Many of these people don’t want to go to a shelter, there needs to be harsher penalties for just laying on the side walk and for drug possession. Just this morning, walking my dog, the Townhouses across from circle K had literally about 20 people laying around in front of that property. I can’t imagine wanting to buy one of those townhomes.

If you don't already read it, I suggest checking out "Chris Arnade Walks the World" on Substack. I don't always agree with him. He cherry picks and exaggerates when writing about American cities and seems to have the worst luck in the world when riding public transit in the U.S. He was especially vicious in writing about Phoenix, although he focused on the area around 27th Avenue and Indian School rather than Downtown. Nevertheless, he makes some really good points about the need to reclaim our public spaces and re-establish public trust:

https://walkingtheworld.substack.com/p/america-and-public-disorder

[bidwillsbiggestfan]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

And I live right by the Cirlce K. We have luxury apartments all around the circle K. I mean the ASU dorms are literally across the street. I don’t necessarily feel in danger, the good thing is there are plenty of people around, heck you can hit the emergency button at the dorms. But it’s just plainly sad to see. Many of these people don’t want to go to a shelter, there needs to be harsher penalties for just laying on the side walk and for drug possession. Just this morning, walking my dog, the Townhouses across from circle K had literally about 20 people laying around in front of that property. I can’t imagine wanting to buy one of those townhomes.

harsher penalties? what exactly would those be and how would they incentivize someone who has nothing already to just disappear (to somewhere you don't have to see)? also, you insinuate that many don't want to go to a shelter as if phoenix's shelters aren't at capacity and in high demand. the fact is that these people are homeless and drug addicted because housing is treated as a financial asset and health care is treated as a luxury.

i can understand feeling unsafe in these areas. but punishment for homelessness is not a successful or humane policy, and the city is worse off because of it.

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by bidwillsbiggestfan

harsher penalties? what exactly would those be and how would they incentivize someone who has nothing already to just disappear (to somewhere you don't have to see)? also, you insinuate that many don't want to go to a shelter as if phoenix's shelters aren't at capacity and in high demand. the fact is that these people are homeless and drug addicted because housing is treated as a financial asset and health care is treated as a luxury.

i can understand feeling unsafe in these areas. but punishment for homelessness is not a successful or humane policy, and the city is worse off because of it.

How can the city be worse by getting people off the street? i live downtown, and these people are ruining the quality of life for all the taxpayers who live and work downtown. And its not humane to allow them to stay on the streets.

just this week had a friend visiting enjoying a cup a coffee on the porch of a nice historic downtown home when a crazy guy started walking up to the porch screaming he wanted to kill her dad. scared the shit out of her.

lack of housing and healthcare causes homelessness? i think you have that backwards.

just did a zillow search, plenty of 1 bedrooms for rent west side for $750/mo $299 movein, no credit. not much of a financial burden.

my son works as a dishwasher in a kitchen about 30 hrs a week and manages to pay $800/month plus utilities, has a junky car, smokes a little pot, drinks a little beer, has a hobby, but not addicted to anything.

you could get a room mate and cut that in half. better than on the street.

the poor get health care thru access or just showing up at emergency room. not the best , but its free

its drugs and metal illness brought on by drugs that is the problem.

i;ve employed several semi homeless people over the years, there are plenty of shelter beds but they are dangerous places to be. christian based shelter have too many rules (can't show up drunk). paycheck gone after weekend of partying.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by bidwillsbiggestfan

harsher penalties? what exactly would those be and how would they incentivize someone who has nothing already to just disappear (to somewhere you don't have to see)? also, you insinuate that many don't want to go to a shelter as if phoenix's shelters aren't at capacity and in high demand. the fact is that these people are homeless and drug addicted because housing is treated as a financial asset and health care is treated as a luxury.

i can understand feeling unsafe in these areas. but punishment for homelessness is not a successful or humane policy, and the city is worse off because of it.

Respectfully disagree. The ones causing trouble need to be removed from areas of new development...7th Ave to 7th st...from Lincoln north to past Camelback. You can't go to a D-backs game anymore with out-of-town guests without seeing misery and aggressive behavior. Yesterday along Central from Washington to Roosevelt...I counted over 20 people lying in the sidewalks passed out. Then north of there, some camp out in front of the library and near new apartments where 1st floor residential windows facing the street. Who wants to see that when they go to their bedroom to change clothes?

Our church helps people in the Zone and families through a couple of programs, but the programs that actually work require personal discipline and the desire to better yourself. We see that 75% want to be left alone in their drug addiction stage...very sad. If you offer food or blankets, they will take it, but then they get mad when you don't give them cash for their next drug hit. They need to go, even if it means building a temporary tent city...I know this sounds harsh, but if Phoenix officials don't control this better, vacancy rates for both residential and commercial will continue to lag...and new developers will look elsewhere.

[Kelton]

New fences, signage, and heavy equipment at the Whitney. Seems like construction will finally start soon

[combusean]

75% addiction rates is about right and there's probably another 50 - 75% that are seriously mentally ill, so there's a significant overlap in people who are both drug addicted and mentally ill.

These are not people who are just down on their luck, they've exhausted all their options and are generally incapable of renting an apartment or living with roommates. You give them an unconditional apartment and they're just going to keep using inside or out, "housing first" is often "morgue second."

They need serious and oftentimes involuntary treatment. You might not agree with it, but nearly all of those options start from inside jails or facilities that are functionally the same, but a lot of cities have just ignored that and let drug addiction and dangerous mental health issues go unmitigated.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

75% addiction rates is about right and there's probably another 50 - 75% that are seriously mentally ill, so there's a significant overlap in people who are both drug addicted and mentally ill.

These are not people who are just down on their luck, they've exhausted all their options and are generally incapable of renting an apartment or living with roommates. You give them an unconditional apartment and they're just going to keep using inside or out, "housing first" is often "morgue second."

They need serious and oftentimes involuntary treatment. You might not agree with it, but nearly all of those options start from inside jails or facilities that are functionally the same, but a lot of cities have just ignored that and let drug addiction and dangerous mental health issues go unmitigated.

That's a very different opinion from one you shared here many years ago, but I'm more inclined to agree with what you've posted today. Even if a voluntary housing first approach might eventually work for some people over the long term, the pace is glacial at a time when our cities need rapid solutions.

[exit2lef]

While we debate the best approach to the citywide problems of street homelessness, untreated mental illness, and addiction, doom and gloom predictions about those factors inhibiting downtown development seem unfounded:

Thousands of apartment units are under construction or in the planning process in downtown Phoenix, but city officials said there is continued demand for residential development in the city’s core.

Since 2015, more than 10,600 apartment units have opened in downtown Phoenix, Xandon Keating, deputy director of community and economic development for the city, said at a meeting of the Economic Development and Arts subcommittee on May 14.

About 1,800 units are under construction and another 2,800 are in the planning process, Keating said.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...r-thousands-more-apartments/90085303007/

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

Respectfully disagree. The ones causing trouble need to be removed from areas of new development...7th Ave to 7th st...from Lincoln north to past Camelback. You can't go to a D-backs game anymore with out-of-town guests without seeing misery and aggressive behavior. Yesterday along Central from Washington to Roosevelt...I counted over 20 people lying in the sidewalks passed out. Then north of there, some camp out in front of the library and near new apartments where 1st floor residential windows facing the street. Who wants to see that when they go to their bedroom to change clothes?

Pushing people out of those boundaries will only worsen the problems that already exist elsewhere. I've seen people camping at bus stops as far north as Deer Valley Road. Yesterday, I passed by 16th St and Indian School and saw more camping than on a typical day Downtown. Since this is a citywide problem, despite all the anti-urban stereotyping that occurs in what is supposed to be a pro-urban forum, it needs a citywide solution. It would be even better if it were a regional one involving not only Phoenix, but also its suburbs.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

That's a very different opinion from one you shared here many years ago, but I'm more inclined to agree with what you've posted today. Even if a voluntary housing first approach might eventually work for some people over the long term, the pace is glacial at a time when our cities need rapid solutions.

I also lamented the lack of conservatorship for the worst cases.

Fentanyl also happened since 2019. It changed things.

[gymratmanaz]

Construction thread??????

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Construction thread??????

Agree!!!

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

I just brought it up because I worry about development downtown. If you look at people that live here and decide to move away, that’s normally the number one reason. It’s a sad problem, I don’t know the answer but the city needs to figure it out. Some good news though, the development on 3rd Ave and McKinley had some wood delivered a couple weeks ago and some more equipment arrived this week. Maybe we will finally see some movement here!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

I just brought it up because I worry about development downtown. If you look at people that live here and decide to move away, that’s normally the number one reason. It’s a sad problem, I don’t know the answer but the city needs to figure it out. Some good news though, the development on 3rd Ave and McKinley had some wood delivered a couple weeks ago and some more equipment arrived this week. Maybe we will finally see some movement here!

You can stop worrying. There is no mass exodus. Look at the article I posted earlier. The construction, which some other forum members understandably want us to focus on, keeps coming.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

You can stop worrying. There is no mass exodus. Look at the article I posted earlier. The construction, which some other forum members understandably want us to focus on, keeps coming.

Construction has slowed down a lot. And just because you say it’s a problem across the city doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be doing anything about it. We can’t just make this the new normal. There’s nothing humane about just letting people sleep on the side walk, yell and scream none sense in the middle of the street and just using drugs in plain sight. If they don’t want to go to the shelter, like someone said earlier, creat some kind of tent city somewhere. If they have hard drugs on them put them in jail or some kind of rehabilitation clinic. Do you even live downtown? Because I see this stuff all the time and it has seem to have gotten worse the past year.

[Eapiwo]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Construction has slowed down a lot. And just because you say it’s a problem across the city doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be doing anything about it. We can’t just make this the new normal. There’s nothing humane about just letting people sleep on the side walk, yell and scream none sense in the middle of the street and just using drugs in plain sight. If they don’t want to go to the shelter, like someone said earlier, creat some kind of tent city somewhere. If they have hard drugs on them put them in jail or some kind of rehabilitation clinic. Do you even live downtown? Because I see this stuff all the time and it has seem to have gotten worse the past year.

I live and work downtown and I really dont think we are some unsafe tent city.

Downtown has steady growth despite high interest rates, supply chain instability, construction material inflation. Thousands of units are still planned to break ground soon.

We have like 5 huge projects wrapping up with maybe thousands of units set to fill up. Give it a year and those buildings and street life will be radically different, especially on Central near Filmore when Sol, Rosie, Ray, and Saiya fill up. Those 4 projects alone have like 1500 units alone. That will make a huge difference for the street life in the area and may finally provide enough foot traffic to support ground floor retail.

I think the ground floor retail is a sort of investment for the future. These are tough spaces to fill in a city like phoenix where people expect to drive to their destinations. Developers know that we dont have a huge population downtown yet. Once the population of downtown rises enough, I think they'll be able to fill these spots.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

I live and work downtown and I really dont think we are some unsafe tent city.

Downtown has steady growth despite high interest rates, supply chain instability, construction material inflation. Thousands of units are still planned to break ground soon.

We have like 5 huge projects wrapping up with maybe thousands of units set to fill up. Give it a year and those buildings and street life will be radically different, especially on Central near Filmore when Sol, Rosie, Ray, and Saiya fill up. Those 4 projects alone have like 1500 units alone. That will make a huge difference for the street life in the area and may finally provide enough foot traffic to support ground floor retail.

I think the ground floor retail is a sort of investment for the future. These are tough spaces to fill in a city like phoenix where people expect to drive to their destinations. Developers know that we dont have a huge population downtown yet. Once the population of downtown rises enough, I think they'll be able to fill these spots.

I was referring to putting a tent city outside the city some where. I think they have even created some sort tent city next to the shelter by the capital. If they are going to live outside anyway, at least have them in a safer place with big fans and provided necessities. But yeah, Saiya has filled up pretty fast and the others are slowly filling up too. Ray even just opened as well. That was my thinking when the Avenue apartments and The Rey opened. I guess slowing but surely although we are going to have about a 3 or 4 year gap in development even if Astra breaks ground. We’ll see what happens!

[PHX]

No more homeless talk. Boring.

[azsunsurfer]

My final contribution on the homeless topic is we do need those retail spaces filled so that way we can be more like California where the homeless can loiter, walk out with merchandise without paying, barricade themselves in the restroom and follow people around within the establishments. I remember going to the movies in Downtown Santa Barbara last year when a homeless person just walked into the movie theater and sat in the hallway without staff doing anything. I feel like that would give Downtown Phoenix that more cosmopolitan feel that it's been lacking.

[PHXLuv]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

My final contribution on the homeless topic is we do need those retail spaces filled so that way we can be more like California where the homeless can loiter, walk out with merchandise without paying, barricade themselves in the restroom and follow people around within the establishments. I remember going to the movies in Downtown Santa Barbara last year when a homeless person just walked into the movie theater and sat in the hallway without staff doing anything. I feel like that would give Downtown Phoenix that more cosmopolitan feel that it's been lacking.

This tiresome argument continues unabated on this forum and has for years. Shipping people elsewhere is ludicrous. Name a major cosmopolitan city that is devoid of mentally ill or unhoused populations? It doesn’t exist. Development news anyone?