Alto High Speed Rail

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For the love of God no. That would be absolutely terrible for HSR ridership. Bad enough for the airport, but HSR shouldn't require another three trains to get Downtown.

Having HSR at Pearson and Trudeau would make sense (but ain't happening) because they are major hubs where people from the entire Quebec-City Windsor Corridor drive or fly to take a long-haul flight. Far less so with Ottawa.

Imbleau did say that Jean-Lesage Airport in Quebec City is basically off the table, so I highly doubt Macdonald-Cartier would be on the table.

I am guessing the objective would not be the airport as a transportation hub, but the airport as a mechanism to cut the length of the overall route.

The three train problem is a relatively solvable one, certainly in comparison to the cost of getting HSR downtown.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am guessing the objective would not be the airport as a transportation hub, but the airport as a mechanism to cut the length of the overall route.

The three train problem is a relatively solvable one, certainly in comparison to the cost of getting HSR downtown.

Yeah and the city might have an argument to get that funded. But even with better transit it's utility is going to be much much lower. For Montreal it will be a very expensive 30 minute improvement.

It's pretty weird to connect two downtowns to a minor airport. Maybe just skip Ottawa if the point is to connect Toronto and Montreal anyway.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

It's pretty weird to connect two downtowns to a minor airport. Maybe just skip Ottawa if the point is to connect Toronto and Montreal anyway.

Unless they were planning to use it as overflow for Toronto and Montreal, for charter/seasonal/sun flights.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am guessing the objective would not be the airport as a transportation hub, but the airport as a mechanism to cut the length of the overall route.

The three train problem is a relatively solvable one, certainly in comparison to the cost of getting HSR downtown.

Even if we somehow fixed the three train transfer to a fully electric airport line to Downtown, it's still a bit of a hike and would negatively impact ridership. I don't think anything further than Tremblay is viable.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah and the city might have an argument to get that funded. But even with better transit it's utility is going to be much much lower. For Montreal it will be a very expensive 30 minute improvement.

It's pretty weird to connect two downtowns to a minor airport. Maybe just skip Ottawa if the point is to connect Toronto and Montreal anyway.

Skip Ottawa? Skip the capital with a metropolitan region of 2 million people (estimated pop by the time it opens). The point of HSR isn't exclusively to connect Toronto to Montreal, it's to connect the major cities in the Corridor along with a few mid-tier cities in between. Removing Ottawa would be a huger blow to the ridership and business plan.

[Truenorth00]

Why is there talk of the airport? Alto published their study zone. It's Tremblay or Hurdman if it's not Union. And really Union was always a long shot. It almost looks like engagement bait in hindsight.

And skipping Ottawa would substantially damage the business case. So it's not going to happen.

[lrt's friend]

How I wish it was Hurdman, being a major transit junction.

[Richard Eade]

I understand that it takes between $10B-$20B for a clean-sheet design of a new jetliner. (Although problems can add significantly to that, as the B777X is showing.) With all of the complaints about taking ground for a high-speed rail corridor, what if they considered something else.

Give $60B to Canadair and have them design a fully electric plane. Something in the 50-100 seat size. Maybe make the battery-pack swappable, so there are short turn-around times. Then use the Toronto Island and Montreal Metropolitan airports to connect Toronto and Montreal. Except, DON’T force tight airport security on these flights. Make them more like getting on a train. Run the planes frequently, and only charge for the operating cost – again, like the train. In time, add in flights between Ottawa and Toronto and Montreal.

There. You have easy, fast transfers between the downtowns (or close to) of two major cities. Run it frequently, and charge $100 for a ride. There is no need for a new corridor across the land, and it runs on electricity – so no GHG emissions.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I understand that it takes between $10B-$20B for a clean-sheet design of a new jetliner. (Although problems can add significantly to that, as the B777X is showing.) With all of the complaints about taking ground for a high-speed rail corridor, what if they considered something else.

Give $60B to Canadair and have them design a fully electric plane. Something in the 50-100 seat size. Maybe make the battery-pack swappable, so there are short turn-around times. Then use the Toronto Island and Montreal Metropolitan airports to connect Toronto and Montreal. Except, DON’T force tight airport security on these flights. Make them more like getting on a train. Run the planes frequently, and only charge for the operating cost – again, like the train. In time, add in flights between Ottawa and Toronto and Montreal.

There. You have easy, fast transfers between the downtowns (or close to) of two major cities. Run it frequently, and charge $100 for a ride. There is no need for a new corridor across the land, and it runs on electricity – so no GHG emissions.

The main issue is that the battery technology doesn't exist for electric planes of that capacity and range. The largest battery powered plane currently has about 30 seats and a range of just under 500km, which is too short for Toronto-Montreal. While the straight line distance between central Toronto and Montreal is about 500km, you can't have use a plane with such a razor-thin range margin in case there are any landing delays, diversions, or go-arounds (aborted landing attempt). Unless the idea is that every trip between Toronto and Montreal makes an intermediate stop to swap battery packs.

Also, I'm not sure how you can just decide not to use strandard airline security. Planes can be hijacked and 911ed into things while a train can't really leave it's tracks so there are inherently different security risks. Plus, even if 50-100 people per trip were p[possible, it's a far cry from the capacity of a train, especially a route which will have 400m platforms. That's equivalent to about 15 cars, and if each car contains 50-80 people, that means each train would carry 750-1200 people. You'd need awfully frequent flights to achieve a similar capacity, and to do that, you'd definitely need to upgrade the airports on each end which would be an extra cost. Also, in addition to the cost to develop the plane (using technology that doesn't yet exist) you'd have to buy the actual planes from Canadair. Each conventional regional jet costs tens of millions of dollars, while one filled with high performance batteries is likely to be much more. And you'd need a lot of them to carry a similar number of passengers as the train. And while being electric would drastically cut fuel costs, labour costs would be much higher than a train since it would be like every car of the train needing both an operator and an attendant.

Fact is, HSR is a proven technology around the world with lots of known benefits. We just have to get over the sticker price and political hurdles and get on with it rather than turning to magical thinking involving bleeding-edge or non-existent technologies.

[phil235]

Not to mention that Billy Bishop has very limited capacity and Montreal Metropolitan is poorly connected to transit or the downtown core.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How I wish it was Hurdman, being a major transit junction.

It may yet be. We don't know the exact location yet. They just wanted to quell the speculation about Union.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It may yet be. We don't know the exact location yet. They just wanted to quell the speculation about Union.

I'm not expecting Hurdman. I don't see what benefit it would offer over Tremblay (other than access to more local buses). And if you look at the current space occupied by the Tremblay station and tracks/platform, I can't see how you'd fit that at Hurdman when accounting for turning radii.

Further the federal government recently initiated land disposal (for residential development) on 315 Terminal Ave and 1460 Riverside Dr.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Transit inefficiency isn't an argument against Union. It applies anywhere in Ottawa. If anything Union is the best spot because you not only have Line 1 (like Tremblay), but dozens of bus routes nearby.

The rest of your arguments are mostly solid.

I'm sorry,, what?

dozens?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not to mention that Billy Bishop has very limited capacity and Montreal Metropolitan is poorly connected to transit or the downtown core.

Not only that, but Montreal Metropolitan isn't that much closer to downtown than the Trudeau airport is (12km vs 15km). And it's around triple the distance as Tremblay is from downtown Ottawa which several people here feel is already too far. And Montreal being a larger population centre meaning it will likely have higher ridership.

[Kitchissippi]

If putting the HSR station at the airport came with expanding Line 4 into a Bank Street subway (and across the river to the Rapibus station at Montcalm) attached to the project, I would totally go for it. The total would probably be cheaper than bringing HSR to old Union station and we'd get better everyday transit.

[Johnny Kit Kat]

I have a feeling this thread will be active for at least the next 20 years.

[rocketphish]

'We would destroy the neighbourhood': Alto CEO rules out downtown Ottawa stop

By Ted Raymond, CTV News
Updated: May 02, 2026 at 10:35AM EDT | Published: May 02, 2026 at 8:00AM EDT

The CEO of Alto, the Crown corporation in charge of the proposed Toronto-Quebec City high-speed rail line, says a station in the heart of downtown Ottawa is simply not feasible.

Ottawa is one of seven proposed stops on the line, and several business and tourism officials have said a downtown station would maximize economic returns and signal the importance of Canada’s capital.

Proponents of a downtown station point to the former Union Station building on Rideau Street, across from the Château Laurier. It currently serves as the Senate of Canada, while Centre Block is under renovation.

But the man leading the project says running a high-speed train through downtown Ottawa would not work.

“It is true that the downtown Senate building, the old station, has been mentioned many times, but let me be clear that there’s no way that we could do an above-ground station there. There’s simply no space,” said Martin Imbleau on Newstalk 580 CFRA’s CFRA Weekends with Andrew Pinsent on Saturday.

“We would completely destroy the neighbourhood if we were to do an above-ground station. There’s simply no space.”

An underground station is also questionable, he said.

“I’m not sure that it’s even doable. I’m not sure, from a cost perspective, that it’s responsible,” he said.

Federal Transportation Minister Steven MacKinnon also said that downtown Ottawa would not be a feasible location.

“The current Senate, the old train station, it became clear it posed some geotechnical challenges, not least of which is that a canal runs on top of the tracks that you would have to put in place, (in) a tunnel. We saw with the Rideau Street cave-in, when the light rail was being built, that the geology of that area can be very problematic,” he told reporters on Friday.

A massive sinkhole opened on Rideau Street in 2016 during construction of O-Train Line 1. It took months to repair, delayed construction of the light-rail tunnel under downtown Ottawa, and led to multimillion-dollar lawsuits that took years to settle.

Imbleau said station sites need to be economically viable, able to ensure travel times are not unnecessarily impacted, can increase ridership, and can minimize the inconveniences of construction, none of which apply to the Senate building downtown.

“A downtown station needs to be a dead-end station that needs to be very, very slow for many kilometres coming in and very slow using another path going out. You lose a lot of time, and time is money, and it’s not something that is easy to do,” Imbleau said.

While Imbleau stressed that final decisions have yet to be made, he did say the existing Via Rail and O-Train Line 1 station on Tremblay Road has more potential than the former train station downtown.

“When you look at the land available and the development opportunity that this site represents and you project Ottawa in 50 and 75 years, you can redeploy that sector not only to have the LRT, the (high-speed rail), the existing Via being connected, so you can create a transportation hub,” he said. “You have spaces to do something that is a landmark in terms of transit development, housing development, commercial development. That’s what high-speed rail brings. It is the dream of redeploying a sector.”

Imbleau said putting high-speed rail at Tremblay Station would allow Alto to create a station that could keep travel times as low as possible.

“It has features that are interesting and ensure that the journey time is correct, you get to Montreal in one hour. That site allows a through station, so you stop and you go directly, then to Peterborough and Toronto,” he said.

MacKinnon said he would not rule out exploring other options potentially closer to downtown Ottawa, but also said final decisions have not been made.

The Alto project would build its first leg between Ottawa and Montreal, with an estimated start date of 2029. Public consultations wrapped up last week on the first phase of the proposed rail link.

Imbleau said a “what we heard” report is expected to be published in June.

“It has become probably one of the largest consultations we’ve ever seen in the country. Three-hundred thousand people went to the website to consult the maps and get the information,” he said. “We had 10,000 people attending the open houses, which is a record, I’ve never seen something like this, and we’ve received 15,000 comments, suggestions, critics, and a few insults, also.”

More details on a proposed alignment for the rail line are expected this fall.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/we...alto-ceo-rules-out-downtown-ottawa-stop/

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Johnny Kit Kat

I have a feeling this thread will be active for at least the next 20 years.

That is of everything goes according to schedule.

[Richard Eade]

At least it hasn't been tagged as 'FANTASY' - yet.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That is of everything goes according to schedule.

So far the way they are moving, suggests more competence that past projects. They also have the right amount of contempt for public consultation to get this done. A necessary trait today given the amount of whiners, NIMBYs, BANANAs and CAVEs (like yourself and a few others here) that attempt to derail (pun intended) any project. Pay lip service and move on.

I'm looking forward to expropriation starting this Fall.

[Richard Eade]

How reasonable is the Tremblay Station for the High-Speed Train station?

Currently, the VIA Rail train takes 20 minutes to travel the, roughly, 15 kilometres from Fallowfield Station to Ottawa Station. That is an average speed of about 45 KPH. Without modification to the route, I wouldn’t expect an HS train to travel much faster. And, the curves actually start about 10 km south of Fallowfield, at Twin Elm – so the slowdown is for even longer.

The VIA Rail train travels along a corridor that is mostly 30 m (100’) wide. ALTO is looking for a 60 m (200’) wide corridor in general – although that may be more for the higher-speed segments.

West of Ottawa Station, there are curves within Ottawa as tight as about 200 m radius – although most appear to be 1,500 m-2,000 m radius. The 200 m radius into the station would be considered tight for HS trains, even at ‘creep’ speed, and would introduce additional maintenance.

The section of VIA-owned track that crosses the Rideau River is shared with an infrequent freight train. The rest of the line into and out of the Ottawa Station will still be shared with VIA Rail trains throughout the day. As will the track that heads east from Ottawa Station.

Virtually all of the track length, into and out of Ottawa, is single track on old infrastructure – much of which is quite old and is, or will soon be, due for replacement.

I also wonder about the overhead clearance of road overpasses. The standard for passenger train around here is 22.5’, while the standard tor high-speed electric trains is 23.5’. Will that make a difference?

Heading east from Ottawa Station, towards Laval, tracks will run through some VERY wet, boggy territory. The current VIA Rail tracks run north of the Mer Bleue Bog, and up and around the Alfred Bog, and 417 highway curves south around that area. I can presume that the HS train would share the tracks that run between Mer Bleue Bog and Orleans, and then split off near the Pendleton-Biodigester and try to sneak under the Alfred Bog (and along Highway 23) to the highway 417 corridor. That section near the bog will be challenging.

There might be a ‘convenient’ already-available station, but getting a High-Speed train into and out of the Ottawa Station will be like building an entirely new corridor – and still the trains will likely be slow. A route in from the west, along Fallowfield Road, under the airport, and east past Edwards to the 417 corridor seems much more straight forward.

And, really, you will need to get to the HS train station from somewhere in Ottawa. Does it matter where you need to go to within the city – assuming that there can be excellent public transit to it? Someone from Kanata going to the station will travel to somewhere to catch the train. I don’t think that they will care if it is at the Ottawa Station or at the airport – although the airport has a lot more parking.