Tucson Development Thread

[andrewsaturn]

Bautista Apartments at the Mercado District:











Video:

https://www.kgun9.com/news/community-ins...aring-completion-in-the-mercado-district

[ZonaRealtor2021]

So I have always wondered and been dismayed at times with our downtown signage committee and it’s strict regulations, I understand we have a dark sky ordinance but I don’t understand how in downtown we have literally no signage on the few buildings we do have of significance. I noticed that when they built the Doubletree renderings had signage on the south side of the hotel so you could see it off of I 10 heading into downtown and then suddenly it got switched to the northern part of the hotel. Same goes for the Unisource tower they put one tiny logo signage on the top of the building facing west but not on the southern part of the building which would be more visible from the freeway? I say all this and wonder if the Hyatt Regency will be able to have all of his placement on top of the building?

Dose any body know the rules for top of building signage DT?

I did watch the link provided I was shocked and happy to find out that they are still planning on building that workforce apartments between the Hyatt Regency & the Flin not the senior complex, that seems to have been switched around to the other side of the hotel and they mentioned luxury not affordable that is also different? I don’t know if the work force apts will be significant most likely another 6-8 stories like the Flin.

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

The Hyatt Regency hotel on 181 W. Broadway is currently undergoing construction and renovation. No big news, but some photos of some possible signage placements for the hotel shown here.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lozu3_Nh3nY&t=956s

[AZ71]

This will be interesting if Rio Nuevo is eliminated from the state budget. Odds are it will bee vetoed. Can't say I'm opposed to it.

https://tucson.com/news/state-regional/g...ium=social&utm_source=twitter_TucsonStar

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by AZ71

This will be interesting if Rio Nuevo is eliminated from the state budget. Odds are it will bee vetoed. Can't say I'm opposed to it.

https://tucson.com/news/state-regional/g...ium=social&utm_source=twitter_TucsonStar

I am not sure about it. The RN board started out disastrous; however, it has made some momentum since 2010. It is currently paying off the bonds from the previous board, and its efforts have generated millions in *new sales taxes. It really has focused primarily on local small businesses as well. The current agreement is that Tucson gets to keep half of its state sales tax generated within the Rio Nuevo district and reinvest IN Tucson.

Something else that could replace it will really have to be a community effort and that may bring more corporations to Tucson if you leave it to business leaders with some $$$. But I do think the governor will veto it. There are other things in the proposal that the governor may disagree with including the proposal to cut tax credits for green infrastructure etc.

[MiEncanto]

Rio Nuevo has never approached the dream it was selling. Paying for TI and other small upgrades was not what was promised. Sure, downtown Tucson is better today than 20 years, but what downtown isn't? It's hard to tease out what would have happened naturally. Like, do they get Caterpillar without it? Probably.

It's sorta weird to have this group of kingmakers who have this walking around money, giving money to connected businesses for random renovations and other small-bit improvements. Frankly, it's kind of a joke. Moreover, it's not really fair that no other city in the State gets this.

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Rio Nuevo has never approached the dream it was selling. Paying for TI and other small upgrades was not what was promised. Sure, downtown Tucson is better today than 20 years, but what downtown isn't? It's hard to tease out what would have happened naturally. Like, do they get Caterpillar without it? Probably.

We simply do not know. According to this article (https://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/new...2b50070-5aa0-11e6-90c6-7fe209c8c01e.html) Caterpillar was close to moving everything to its corporate HQ in Illinois and called the process very competitive and I am sure $50M from RN helped Tucson win.

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

It's sorta weird to have this group of kingmakers who have this walking around money, giving money to connected businesses for random renovations and other small-bit improvements. Frankly, it's kind of a joke. Moreover, it's not really fair that no other city in the State gets this.

The RN board must screen each business looking for support because they have to show that they could be an economic benefit to the area as well. But they are not that intimidating, as long as you have a good plan and product, they are open to supporting.

I don't think any other AZ city is restricted to having this model. They should ask. I think it has helped dozens of small local businesses start or expand.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

We simply do not know. According to this article (https://www.insidetucsonbusiness.com/new...2b50070-5aa0-11e6-90c6-7fe209c8c01e.html) Caterpillar was close to moving everything to its corporate HQ in Illinois and called the process very competitive and I am sure $50M from RN helped Tucson win.



The RN board must screen each business looking for support because they have to show that they could be an economic benefit to the area as well. But they are not that intimidating, as long as you have a good plan and product, they are open to supporting.

I don't think any other AZ city is restricted to having this model. They should ask. I think it has helped dozens of small local businesses start or expand.

No other city gets it because only Tucson has it by law.

Cat threatening to go to Illinois was a total joke. Now, if they threatened to go to Dallas, I'd believe them.

[Eapiwo]

This is a hot take as a lover of Tucson and its prople, but I hope a constructive critique.

I think the issue with Rio Nuevo and the general stagnation of Tucson as a whole is that residents are quick to mobilize against virtually anything they deem "not Tucson" in nature, while failing to provide any alternative visions for what they want the city to be. The culture here is to resist change while providing a very narrow range of "acceptable changes."

Lengthy construction loans and neighborhood battles are a guarantee in Tucson. The costs are fsr from negligible for prospective developers. I think if there were a framework of what would be "acceptable" to build that was straightforward and allowed developers to genuinely plan ahead would allow for more development as we saw in the Main Gate Overlay District which is essentially fully built now.

Tucson needs to define what it wants and provide a easy framework for development to follow without having a decade battle.

A lack of progress is not a great alternative as it produces stagnation, which ironically is the most Tucson thing there could be.

[OcotilloTea]

Rio Nuevo definitely made a horrible first impression on the City, but I think that the proof is in the pudding, and when we look at downtown today versus 20 years ago, the improvement is impressive. People may say that this improvement was guaranteed since all downtowns have improved, but I disagree. Albuquerque (who I always think of as our close cousin) has not seen the same vibrancy in their downtown despite our many similarities. I think a big reason for this is the fact we have the TIF district, and other things the downtown has organized (such as the purple downtown improvement people, I forget their name).

RN definitely leans a bit gentrify-mode, but I think that Tucson has more to go before we can say the momentum downtown is self sufficient enough to attract more business and life to our city. I hope governor Hobbs is able to keep it intact.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by OcotilloTea

Rio Nuevo definitely made a horrible first impression on the City, but I think that the proof is in the pudding, and when we look at downtown today versus 20 years ago, the improvement is impressive. People may say that this improvement was guaranteed since all downtowns have improved, but I disagree. Albuquerque (who I always think of as our close cousin) has not seen the same vibrancy in their downtown despite our many similarities. I think a big reason for this is the fact we have the TIF district, and other things the downtown has organized (such as the purple downtown improvement people, I forget their name).

RN definitely leans a bit gentrify-mode, but I think that Tucson has more to go before we can say the momentum downtown is self sufficient enough to attract more business and life to our city. I hope governor Hobbs is able to keep it intact.

I think RN's greatest achievement is the Mercado District and the AC Marriott. Other than than I dont see a bunch more. Maybe the Doubletree Hotel was a good addition but its awkward placement in the SE corner of the facility is weird to me. That parking garage is ugly. The Flin was by far the worst addition. Adding a suburban apt building on the TCC campus that should have been designated as a mixed use retail/restaurants/bars and hotel would have been far smarter. Where are TCC convention attendee's supposed to go to eat? Then this Arizona Hotel remodel by HSL is going on too long. RN was taken advantage of by Nor-Gen on the empty arena lot downtown. Even that newest 17 story Gateway building has been pulled. 75 E Broadway has gone through so many interations they might as well give up. The current proposal is a huge misuse of the last remaining core downtown parcel. Their investment into Sunshine Mile hasn't paid off. Given like $1M to Zenman's is ridiculous. I'm not saying RN hasn't done some things...but it needs a refresh of leadership. But mostly, they need to stop awarding contracts to local developers that just cant perform. Its their biggest issue.

[andrewsaturn]

Valid points mentioned here. I could go on about RN flaws too but our downtown has become more of a vibrant place now and you can go on a weekday or weekend and people are walking or strolling around because our small local businesses made it that way. From the Mercado district, through downtown, and along 4th ave. So many places to visit. IMO, if we continue to add housing and work on all the small vacant things like filling out all of Congress street with businesses from end to end etc, we could start attracting the bigger investments. There are more vacant lots in downtown that have potential. We really need all the help we can get.

Also, Eapiwo mentioned construction loans, culture, and neighborhood battles. I don’t know enough about construction loaning in Tucson but the neighborhood battles/NIMBY culture is challenging. However, somehow the 19 story building UA is building on Campbell and Speedway got through. (Which I saw some demolition happening). I think the Historic committee and parking could lengthen the business process as well. (Friedman block project on Broadway is having a parking plan issue right now).

[andrewsaturn]

Armory Park in downtown is currently undergoing renovations through this summer and will include new shade structures, a dog park, and lighting. This project is another project effort through the city to renovate and upgrade Tucson parks. Other parks include Joaquin Murrieta Park (completed) and Danny Lopez Park (Silverbell Lake).

Armory Park shade structure:







https://tucsondelivers.tucsonaz.gov/pages/parks-connections

[andrewsaturn]

Cushing Street Skatepark in downtown is slated to begin this Summer 2026:





https://tucsondelivers.tucsonaz.gov/pages/cushingstreetskate

[ZonaRealtor2021]

Yesterday I was watching KVOA news. There was a story that they were seeking input from stakeholders and the public regarding different types of uses for future development at the downtown Ronstadt transit center.

I wonder what this means? If now there is real momentum to actually pursue something or if the original awardee has completely backed out and the property is now back on the open market again for redevelopment ???

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by ZonaRealtor2021

Yesterday I was watching KVOA news. There was a story that they were seeking input from stakeholders and the public regarding different types of uses for future development at the downtown Ronstadt transit center.

I wonder what this means? If now there is real momentum to actually pursue something or if the original awardee has completely backed out and the property is now back on the open market again for redevelopment ???

I recently read that Peach Properties is no longer developing this project, but I can't find it. I think the interest has always been there to redevelop this site, but I thought it ran into funding issues and federal approval.

[andrewsaturn]

The 1st Ave improvement project designs are now completed and will feature bike protected lanes, improved sidewalks, more crosswalks, bridge replacement over Rillito River, and public artwork.

Construction won't begin until 2028.



https://tucson1stavenueproject.com/

https://tucson1stavenueproject.com/docs/1st_Ave_CTF_2025-02-20.pdf

Video Simulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL37YfYHISw

[AZ71]

The 1st Avenue designs are fine. My biggest problem is there is no vegetation. No trees, no plants. Nothing. It still looks like one big urban heat island. I see no reference to plants at all in the documentation.

[OcotilloTea]

Originally Posted by AZ71

The 1st Avenue designs are fine. My biggest problem is there is no vegetation. No trees, no plants. Nothing. It still looks like one big urban heat island. I see no reference to plants at all in the documentation.

The report has a section on landscaping and shows that the medians will be filled with native landscaping, and the buffer zones between the sidewalks and road will be as well. Not to mention the ¨opportunity zones¨ where there will be extra landscaped areas with art and benches.

I actually have high hopes for this project. It will be like the broadway or grant modernizations except without the soul crushing and needless widening.

Unfortunately they do seem to want to include slip-lanes in several areas, which I think really makes the bike improvements significantly weakened. As a motorist I also dislike the slip lanes since they make me less sure when I can go.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by OcotilloTea

The report has a section on landscaping and shows that the medians will be filled with native landscaping, and the buffer zones between the sidewalks and road will be as well. Not to mention the ¨opportunity zones¨ where there will be extra landscaped areas with art and benches.

I actually have high hopes for this project. It will be like the broadway or grant modernizations except without the soul crushing and needless widening.

Unfortunately they do seem to want to include slip-lanes in several areas, which I think really makes the bike improvements significantly weakened. As a motorist I also dislike the slip lanes since they make me less sure when I can go.

When have you ever seen an architectural rendering that shows vegetation that turns out in real life to look anything like it? Every single road expansion I've seen has always shown trees and we get nothing. Research the renderings for Broadway and the Sunshine Mile. There are no trees down the side for the majority of it.

I'm simply asking can we take this 1st Avenue project and really make it desirable & a beautiful place? Something like this?

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by AZ71

When have you ever seen an architectural rendering that shows vegetation that turns out in real life to look anything like it? Every single road expansion I've seen has always shown trees and we get nothing. Research the renderings for Broadway and the Sunshine Mile. There are no trees down the side for the majority of it.

I'm simply asking can we take this 1st Avenue project and really make it desirable & a beautiful place? Something like this?

I agree that the 2nd picture is how it should look and it's a shame that developers and the city do not think about their own initiative, 1 million additional trees planted by 2030.

The medians will have plants, and the sidewalks will have some trees planted, just not as much as we hope or want them to. The presentation outlined Green Stormwater Infrastructure, which is assuming they will have plants for the stormwater to run into.


The Broadway widening has many plants in the median and some trees on the sidewalks: