NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I like the Halmar proposal. Looks very nice to me.

And it's supported by the actual stakeholders. Vornado and MSG both support Halmar. And it appears you know who does too.

It’s the onky obvious real choice. But it’s also bland, and their attempt at classical will not work. It’s more of a lipstick on a pig solution, but the final design may not be anything like that.

Originally Posted by ChiND

Same with 31st between 7th and 8th. The Grand Penn Plan envisions a tower on the site of the huge garage with an ancillary station hall at the base. If Halmar is selected, that eyesore should still go. The adjacent, old Penn Station powerhouse should go to. It's an eyesore. We raze a lot of gorgeous old buildings in NYC. That PoS should not be spared.

The state plan, which is on the backburner, already envisions razing that block. But currently, only the existing station is being worked on.

[ChiND]

I recall that, but if, in fact, Trump will select the Halmar plan, the government should use eminent domain now to seize that garbage and build additional entrances to Penn with new towers above them.

[BK1985]

Originally Posted by ChiND

I recall that, but if, in fact, Trump will select the Halmar plan, the government should use eminent domain now to seize that garbage and build additional entrances to Penn with new towers above them.

Whomever develops the parcel should fund and build any entrance for a transit bonus exchange.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by BK1985

Whomever develops the parcel should fund and build any entrance for a transit bonus exchange.

I agree. I assume that would be part of the deal, as it was/is with RXR, Boston Properties, JPMC, Sedesco, etc. However, eminent domain should be exercised in order to get the ball rolling. Without it, the owners of some of those properties won’t sell to Vornado unless they’re paid extortionate sums. Extra entrances to the station would provide a public benefit.

[mrnyc]

now if someone would design a nice airy new bryant park over the top of penn.

[ChiND]

Since it appears that Trump favors ASTM’s plan, 421 7th (and the other junk that Vornado does not own on 7th) must be taken by eminent domain. A residential tower with an ancillary entrance to Penn should rise there.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/24/nyc-real-e...ns-to-move-for-cuomos-penn-station-plan/




NYP

[Glow Fun City]

Originally Posted by ChiND

Since it appears that Trump favors ASTM’s plan, 421 7th (and the other junk that Vornado does not own on 7th) must be taken by eminent domain. A residential tower with an ancillary entrance to Penn should rise there.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/24/nyc-real-e...ns-to-move-for-cuomos-penn-station-plan/




NYP

Can't have Sbarro be the first pizza joint people see when they arrive in New York, not acceptable

[ChiND]

When I was at MSG a few weeks ago, Sbarro looked closed. However, I'm more concerned with the vile and disgusting building than with the vile and disgusting pizza.

A new MSG on this site would not have only enabled through running at Penn, but it would have instantly sanitized one of the most horrendous blocks between the Battery and 96th Street.

[Busy Bee]

But where will Michael get his authentic slice?

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

But where will Michael get his authentic slice?

Good one!

[ChiND]

I’m fairly sure that Vornado doesn’t own everything from the McDonald’s to the garbage on the corner.

If Roth thinks that a tenant will pay over $300/sf in this dump, then he’s truly delusional. This vile block must be disinfected.

[ChiND]

If MSG stays, and the track congestion is not rectified, the Gateway project will be useless. I can't imagine that Byford is not strongly lobbying for Grand Penn, since it's the only plan that addresses track congestion by embracing through running.

https://www.nydailynews.com/2026/04/27/all-of-penn-must-be-fixed/

Improving Penn for people is a must, but improving it for trains must happen as well. Both need to occur to produce a station worthy of America’s biggest and greatest city and it may take the intervention of the president, à la Wollman Rink.

Andy Byford, the former Train Daddy of the Transit Authority, is heading Amtrak’s Penn project. As explained in Sunday’s Daily News, there are the three bidders, the Australian-based Macquarie, which seemingly wants to move Madison Square Garden and restore the original demolished Penn headhouse, the Italian-based Halmar, which appears to want to leave MSG in place, but remove the old Felt Forum along Eighth Ave. and the Canadian-based Fengate, which a mystery.

Byford, along with two colleagues from Amtrak and also a person from NJTransit, will decide on the winner, advised by a quartet of consultants: AECOM on construction management, the Hunton law firm on legal concerns, KPMG on finances and AKRF on environmental matters. The MTA was offered a seat on the committee, but declined, as its parts of Penn are in good shape and protected by a long-term lease with Amtrak.

The recommended winner will be presented for ratification to the Amtrak board in mid-May and after that it goes to the White House for final approval. On Sunday, a bevy of West Side elected officials demanded more transparency, but the bid details on the winner and two losers won’t become public until it’s all been resolved.

What we do know is that Byford was correct to require that all bidders produce a single-level concourse, as we’ve urged for years, and also increase vertical access to the platforms, which we’ve also long called for.

However the tracks and platforms themselves are outside of the scope of the three bidders and the station’s efficiency is being reviewed by the Federal Railroad Administration.

The Regional Plan Association, a nonprofit group that we’ve shown has had its independence questioned by taking upwards of a million dollars to promote the Gateway boondoggle, has a new report on train movements in Penn.


Unsurprisingly RPA poo-poos all the smart and logical ideas for through-running and once that’s ruled out, the only option is then to dig a new stub-end terminal south of Penn on Block 780, demolishing a neighborhood (price tag close to $20 billion). Gov. Hochul has rightly said Block 780 will not happen and RPA coyly doesn’t mention the reviled Block 780 plan.

But unless the alignment of the new Hudson tunnel is adjusted as it enters Penn, it will be useless for adding any additional capacity from New Jersey (which is the whole point of Gateway). That’s what the RPA is banking on, that in the future someone will have to build on Block 780 should the approaches in Penn not be changed, as it currently is aimed at 780.

We are not the only ones who see a boondoggle here. On Presidents’ Day, President Trump stuck the boondoggle label on Gateway, which unless altered will not yield even a single seat of new capacity when the new Hudson tunnel opens in 2040, a $16 billion big nothing. His administration is still fighting the Biden-approved funding of the Hudson tunnel in court, but it has agreed that the MTA’s Second Ave. subway project is legitimate. They must not give up in seeking changes to Gateway.

Trump should use his leverage over the money to force changes in the Hudson tunnel plan to make it immediately beneficial upon completion without Block 780. Years will be cut off the schedule, billions of dollars will be saved and a Midtown neighborhood will be preserved.

Donald Trump first made his mark decades ago in Manhattan with Wollman Rink, doing a repair job smarter, faster and more economical. He is now fixing the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool that way. Next up must be Penn Station.

[ChiND]

It will be utterly absurd if we don't get through running to address track congestion.


Trump’s Penn Station rebuild opens door to unifying New York’s railroads

By Stephen Nessen
Published May 4, 2026

https://gothamist.com/news/trumps-penn-station-rebuild-opens-door-to-unifying-new-yorks-railroads

Most of the attention to Trump’s redevelopment of the nation’s busiest train station has focused on converting its labyrinthine layout into an architectural marvel filled with natural light. One plan under consideration would move Madison Square Garden across the street. But the much-needed aesthetic improvements to Penn have arguably distracted from a more pressing problem: In the coming decade, Penn Station is going to run out of room.

The $16 billion Gateway project that’s constructing two new rail tunnels between New York and New Jersey is slated to wrap in 2035, doubling the number of trains that could move between the two states each hour from 24 to 48. Metro-North trains will also begin arriving at the station in 2030, when the MTA expects to finish its Penn Access project.

Where will all those trains go?

Andy Byford, the former NYC Transit president now in charge of Amtrak’s redesign of Penn, says “through-running” could be the answer.

[Crawford]

Penn Station is running out of room bc it doesn't have enough tracks, not bc of lack of thru-running. NJ Transit (the most constrained railroad) derives zero benefit from running trains east of Penn.

Penn South, with maybe a dozen new tracks, will fix Penn for the next century. The rest is mostly cosmetic.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Penn Station is running out of room bc it doesn't have enough tracks, not bc of lack of thru-running. NJ Transit (the most constrained railroad) derives zero benefit from running trains east of Penn.

Penn South, with maybe a dozen new tracks, will fix Penn for the next century. The rest is mostly cosmetic.

Through-running would ameliorate this. Also, Penn South is a $20B + project that isn’t happening.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Penn Station is running out of room bc it doesn't have enough tracks, not bc of lack of thru-running. NJ Transit (the most constrained railroad) derives zero benefit from running trains east of Penn.

Penn South, with maybe a dozen new tracks, will fix Penn for the next century. The rest is mostly cosmetic.

That’s correct. Through running is the fantasy of people who don’t actually need to ride those trains. They exist, and the demand is there for access to Manhattan.

[NYguy]

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/politics-policy/cny-penn-station-mta-trump-amtrak-20260504/

Penn station pitches are in, but MTA pushes previous design work





By Kathryn Brenzel
May 04, 2026

Finalists competing to overhaul Penn Station submitted their proposals to Amtrak last week. But the Metropolitan Transportation Authority still wants the new design to incorporate earlier work that it contracted at a cost of $74 million rather than letting it go to waste.

Amtrak took over redesign of the station in April 2025, with the backing of the Trump administration. The winning bid is expected to be announced next month, selected from among three teams: Grand Penn Partners, a team led by Macquarie Group; Penn Transformation Partners, led by Halmar; and Penn Forward, led by Fengate.

From there, according to the timeline laid out by Amtrak, construction is slated to begin by the end of 2027.

The proposals were initially due May 4, but Amtrak moved the deadline up to April 30. Macquarie declined to comment. The other two teams didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Lawmakers have criticized the federal process for its lack of transparency, including around how the $7 billion dollar project will be paid for, and called on Amtrak to publicly release the request for proposals that are serving as the basis for the teams’ pitches. Andy Byford, who is heading Amtrak’s efforts, rejected the request, noting in an April 3 letter that after a master developer is selected, the agency will release information on the RFP and the team responses. Streetsblog first reported on the letter.

MTA officials, meanwhile, are pushing for design work that it spearheaded to be incorporated in the federally led process. In 2022, the agency signed off on a $58 million contract with a joint venture between FXCollaborative Architects and WSP for preliminary design and engineering work. The cost of the design work rose to $74 million, and was covered by the MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit, Gothamist reported.
The vision laid out by the joint venture, based on a preferred redesign unveiled in 2021, included a new entrance between Seventh and Eighth avenues, and created a single-level facility around a “grand train hall,” along with a 450-foot-long, sky-lit atrium between Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza.

Renderings provided through a public records request show the new entrance and passengers descending escalators into a light-filled station.

That work was jettisoned when the federal government took over the redesign.
“The MTA is explicitly not involved in that process, and nor is the public,” Jamie Torres-Springer, president of MTA construction and development, said in an interview. “We certainly hope that the federal government makes use of all the work that was done to date by the MTA, Amtrak and New Jersey Transit to improve the station for the riders.”

Those improvements, he said, should focus on increasing circulation to and from platforms, raising ceilings and creating more entrances to achieve an overall “better environment.”

“That should be the focus for anything that happens to Penn,” he added.

….. MTA officials see a point of potential leverage: The agency’s long-term lease for the northern half of the station, which runs for the next 160 years.

“Within that lease, we have the right to review and approve any changes to that area of the station, and also any changes elsewhere in the station that would impact our operations in Penn Station,” Torres-Springer said. “We fully intend to exercise those rights throughout this process.”

Jason Abrams, a spokesperson for Amtrak, said in an email that the MTA remains an “active partner,” as a member of an working group advising on the project. He said that unlike NJ Transit, the MTA didn’t sign a memo of agreement on the project.

“Although they are choosing to rely on the terms of their lease, they have an open invitation to reconsider and sign the MOA to become full partners on the project,” he said.

[streetscaper]

lol @ people in here thinking they know more than train daddy Andy Byford

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by streetscaper

lol @ people in here thinking they know more than train daddy Andy Byford

I'd take Janno Lieber over Andy Byford any day. 100x better manager, doesn't self-promote and doesn't switch jobs every two weeks.

I've also never heard Andy Byford claim that Penn doesn't need Penn South.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'd take Janno Lieber over Andy Byford any day. 100x better manager, doesn't self-promote and doesn't switch jobs every two weeks.

I've also never heard Andy Byford claim that Penn doesn't need Penn South.

Getting Penn South would be great, but it's undisputed that that $20B + project is not on the table. In fact, the RFA that's at issue is limited to the existing footprint for Penn.